Masks

odyssey06

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

And of course you will be able to quote where in HSPC guidelines in states that if you don't follow all of these guidelines to the letter, wearing a mask is a waste of time.

By this logic, if your tyres are less than 3mm thread depth you may as well not have them on your car... and you can't recommend to others to ensure their tyres are up to NCT standard depth for their own and everyone's safety.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

They are not recommended for people 'with asthma'.
Please find me where there is a general recommendation that asthmatics should wear visors instead of masks?

Those are the total numbers with no distinction of severity or nature of the asthma.
Asthma can be well managed, exercise \ allergy induced, moderate, severe.

The number of people with actual asthma and anxiety issues so severe they cannot wear a mask is a tiny fraction of the number of people using it as an excuse, or going around with visors on.
And if your asthma is that severe an enclosed public space during a respiratory virus pandemic is not where you should be.
Many many actual asthmatics are going around wearing masks while shopping.

Most people with asthma, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask or covering for a short period of time, and shouldn't worry if they need to wear one.
https://www.asthma.org.uk/advice/triggers/coronavirus-covid-19/what-should-people-with-asthma-do-now/

Look, there is no point in google pi**ing match looking for links. When you will get it (I sincerely hope you don't) you will see and understand what it means.
Anything and I mean anything which obstructs your ability to breathe which is already severely diminished is going to make it worse.

A lot of it is also psychosomatic. I know it from my own experience that if I go somewhere without an inhaler and realize that I do not have it, I will suffer. An asthma attack can be triggered even by this. Anyone with asthma will tell you that breathing through the mask is hard for them and it may actually happen as soon as they put it on. Hence the visor recommendation.

Visor may be actually more effective than some of fashionable home made masks a lot of people are sporting around.

joeguevara

If im not aware that my mask is a strangulation hazard in certain circumstances, even if im never in those circucmstances , weldoninho is saying me wearing a mask is pointless. If I am not aware that face coverings are not for everyone, weldoninho is saying me wearing a mask is pointless. Is this what is considered normal discourse now?

odyssey06

patnor1011 wrote: »

Look, there is no point in google pi**ing match looking for links. When you will get it (I sincerely hope you don't) you will see and understand what it means.
Anything and I mean anything which obstructs your ability to breathe which is already severely diminished is going to make it worse.
A lot of it is also psychosomatic. I know it from my own experience that if I go somewhere without an inhaler and realize that I do not have it, I will suffer. An asthma attack can be triggered even by this. Anyone with asthma will tell you that breathing through the mask is hard for them and it may actually happen as soon as they put it on. Hence the visor recommendation.

There is every point if you are making general conclusions about every asthmatic or even the vast majority.

They i.e. anyone with asthma won't tell you that - because it is not true.
Certainly some asthmatics, but "anyone with asthma"? Nope.
There are testimonials on this thread and online directly contradicting that.

You cannot equate the numbers of asthmatics you have listed with "severely diminished" breathing.
That's not the definition or experience of asthma.

You are the one claiming that visors are recommended for all asthmatics.
Where is your source for this claim?

Seanergy

Yes: valved

patnor1011 wrote: »

They will not be "filtered" out. They are recommended for people with asthma or people with mental issues who can not wear a mask. Get used to seeing them around.
Ireland has the 4th highest prevalence of asthma worldwide. Approximately 470,000 people affected (1 in 8 of population) ... Asthma is the commonest chronic disease in childhood and the most common respiratory condition in Ireland.
- 890,000 people in Ireland experience asthma at some stage of their life.
- 380,000 people in Ireland currently have asthma.
- 1 in 13 people in Ireland currently have asthma.
- 1 in 10 children currently have asthma.

Considering that the lungs use approx 15% of the water we drink to keep themselves moisturised, could our heavily chemicalised water have anything to do with asthma? All that chlorine we use to keep the water disinfected from the mains pipes can't be good for our lungs. Likewise the flouride we drink that acts to slow down metabolism in the mouth can't we good for our lungs either. Why are we drinking the flouride, because the State deemed it to be the cheaper and easier solution to educating subgroups of the population. A mask does not flood your lungs with chlorine and or flouride.

Incredible that the Asthma Society of Ireland still does not know what causes asthma. This is an extremly serious problem. Could our small classrooms be adding to the problem of asthma in children? Have and are we still completly overlooking the importance of ventilation in the classroom? A mask does not limit your oxygen intake like a poorly ventilated classroom.

Faceshields are not recommended for people with asthma, only for people with severe asthma, massive difference, take your 380,000 and show me only the severe, 0.5-4% ?

This was the guidance from Asthma Ireland last week, no doubt it will change as better masks become available.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Note I didn't talk about our asbestos pipes or our bitumen lined asbestos pipes that run for thousands of kilometers in the Irish Water infastructure. Mind you the bitumen might no longer be on the pipes, the Canadian's went to study their bitumne lined pipes only to discover most of the bitumen had dissapeared due to the flow fo water. Now where did it dissapear to?

odyssey06

The asthma society is advising don't use surgical masks?

Is there really still a shortage of surgical masks?
Our supermarkets and pharmacies have stocks and stocks of them...

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

odyssey06 wrote: »

The asthma society is advising don't use surgical masks?

Is there really still a shortage of surgical masks?
Our supermarkets and pharmacies have stocks and stocks of them...

Deals, the euro shop, I've seen masks in SuperValu and Tesco. There's no shortage.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

And of course you will be able to quote where in HSPC guidelines in states that if you don't follow all of these guidelines to the letter, wearing a mask is a waste of time.

The Irish govts independent expert Dr Heneghen has stated as much. He’s on post 10 in the Gareth O’Callaghan thread.

Jim_Hodge

Yes: homemade

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hands up if you are following all of the below from the HSPC. Otherwise you are doing it wrong and your mask is pointless.

]

So now masks are fine if, like the majority of us, we wear them properly and adhere to the guidelines? That's a bit of a change in tack by you.

After all your anti mask rhetoric, it seems you're in favour of masks as long as we do so properly. That's fine so. Why didn't you say at the outset that you approve of masks properly worn? Could you not just have worn one correctly rather than go through the sham of feigning illness to avoid wearing one?


Stop digging.

odyssey06

weldoninhio wrote: »

The Irish govts independent expert Dr Heneghen has stated as much. He’s on post 10 in the Gareth O’Callaghan thread.

What position does he hold with the Irish government?
And please link to the article where Dr Heneghen states that in relation to the use of masks (and not masks as PPE).
Not "as much". Has stated that exactly.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

More than likely just a time lag,

HSE.ie no longer use surgical mask term, they use the term medical mask.

GOV.IE still use the term, maybe they got it from there. "Medical masks (surgical and respirator) are for healthcare workers." - GOV.IE

robinph

No: I don't care enough

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hands up if you are following all of the below from the HSPC. Otherwise you are doing it wrong and your mask is pointless.

If you choose to use a cloth face covering:

Do

• Do remember that proper hand hygiene is essential and remains a priority.
• Check that the face covering is made from a fabric that you are comfortable wearing.
• Check that the face covering is suitable for laundering at a temperature of at least 60 degrees celsius.
• Check that the face coverings are easy to fit and completely cover your nose and mouth.
• Carry the unused face covering in a sealable clean waterproof bag (for example a zip lock bag).
• Carry a second readily distinguishable sealable clean waterproof bag for storage of used face coverings.
• Practice fitting and removing the face covering so that you are comfortable applying and removing it readily.
• When you are about to enter a situation where face covering use is recommended put on a clean one and ensure it is covering your nose and mouth.
• Once the face covering is in place, try not to touch the front of it.
• Leave the face covering in place until you have left the situation where its use is needed or the face covering is damaged or wet.
• If your face covering is wet or soiled remove it and replace with a fresh one.
• When you remove the face covering do so without touching the front of it and place it in the bag for used face coverings.
• Clean your hands as soon as possible after removal of a face covering.
• Launder used face coverings on the evening of use at a temperature of at least 60 degrees Celsius.
• Check face coverings regularly for wear and damage and dispose of face coverings that are damaged.
• Dispose of face covering that are no longer required.
• Be aware that face covering use is not practical for everyone and that children under 13 year should not wear a face covering.
• Be aware that face coverings can pose a strangulation hazard and, in that context, may not be appropriate for use in certain settings

If you choose to use a cloth face covering:


Don’t

• Do not wear a face covering if under 13 years of age (unless specifically advised to do so by a healthcare provider).
• Do not wear a face covering if you have special needs or a disability that means that use of a face covering creates specific risks.
• Do not use face coverings instead of self-isolation.
• Do not use face coverings instead of keeping your distance of 2 m from other people whenever possible.
• Do not use face coverings instead of hand hygiene.
• Do not wear a face covering when you are alone in a room or in your car or in an open space away from other people.
• Do not allow other people to use a face covering that you have used (until laundered).
• Do not lower the face covering to speak, eat, and smoke or vape. If you need to uncover your nose or mouth remove the face covering and place in the bag for use face coverings.
• Do not place used face coverings on surfaces that are likely to be touched by other people in public places (for example on tables).
• Do not discard face coverings in public places other than into refuse bins.
• Do not criticise or judge people who are not able to wear a face covering.

So if one headlamp bulb on my car is blown then there is no point in me bothering to use the brakes to stop is your reasoning?

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

robinph wrote: »

So if one headlamp bulb on my car is blown then there is no point in me bothering to use the brakes to stop is your reasoning?

Again, not my reasoning. The opinion of Dr Carl Heneghan BM, BCH, MA, MRCGP, DPhil. He set up and directs the Oxford COVID Evidence Service, has over 400 peer-reviewed publications (current H Index 67); published 95 systematic reviews.

Sconsey

No: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hands up if you are following all of the below from the HSPC. Otherwise you are doing it wrong and your mask is pointless.
<snip>

You're so full of crap. So you ae saying that the mask is pointless if for example I 'judge someone that is not wearing a mask'?

The nonsense hyperbole from you is a joke at this stage.

odyssey06

weldoninhio wrote: »

Again, not my reasoning. The opinion of Dr Carl Heneghan BM, BCH, MA, MRCGP, DPhil. He set up and directs the Oxford COVID Evidence Service, has over 400 peer-reviewed publications (current H Index 67); published 95 systematic reviews.

It's not Dr Carl Heneghan's reasoning either, based on what I have read of his publications.
I'm waiting for you to provide your sources - actual article or publication - where Dr Carl Heneghan say that a mask is pointless at reducing transmission in public places if the guidelines you have quoted aren't followed exactly.
Articles involving their use as PPE by healthcare staff are irrelevent to such a question.

Loafing Oaf

No: I don't care enough

Sconsey wrote: »

You're so full of crap. So you ae saying that the mask is pointless if for example I 'judge someone that is not wearing a mask'?

The nonsense hyperbole from you is a joke at this stage.

Or if you don't "Clean your hands as soon as possible after removal of a face covering", that retroactively renders the mask useless while you were wearing it. Yep, sounds scientific to me...

joeguevara

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Or if you don't "Clean your hands as soon as possible after removal of a face covering", that retroactively renders the mask useless while you were wearing it. Yep, sounds scientific to me...

Or if Im not aware that a mask is a strangulation risk in some circumstances, id be better off going without.

robinph

No: I don't care enough

I like the implication that if you are with an under 13 year old and they wear a mask then that renders your mask ineffective.

Sconsey

No: other

joeguevara wrote: »

Or if Im not aware that a mask is a strangulation risk in some circumstances, id be better off going without.

Your mask has been rendered pointless as a result of you not being aware of this....how your mask is aware of your thoughts and as an inanimate object is still able to render itself useles is something Weldoinihio will have to explain.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's not Dr Carl Heneghan's reasoning either, based on what I have read of his publications.
I'm waiting for you to provide your sources - actual article or publication - where Dr Carl Heneghan say that a mask is pointless at reducing transmission in public places if the guidelines you have quoted aren't followed exactly.
Articles involving their use as PPE by healthcare staff are irrelevent to such a question.

Post 10. Gareth O’Callaghan thread. He’s on video call to the Oireachtas committee.

odyssey06

weldoninhio wrote: »

Post 10. Gareth O’Callaghan thread. He’s on video call to the Oireachtas committee.

Right. So you cant produce the article.
The article linked in post #10 says nothing of the sort.

Claim unsupported and rejected without an article that explains its reasoning and evidence.
Random quotes in a video dont count.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

Right. So you cant produce the article.
The article linked in post #10 says nothing of the sort.

Claim unsupported and rejected without an article that explains its reasoning and evidence.
Random quotes in a video dont count.

Ok, arbitrator of what counts and what doesn’t. Hahaha. Not zealot like at all.

odyssey06

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ok, arbitrator of what counts and what doesn’t. Hahaha. Not zealot like at all.

I'm not the arbitrator of what counts but it was obviously suspicious about your claim when you couldn't provide an article to support it.

Where in the video evidence does Dr Carl Heneghan say that failure to adhere to the HSE guidelines renders masks pointless in the context of wearing them in enclosed public places to reduce transmission?
Minute and second.
He talks about the use of cloth coverings as PPE by healthcare workers.
He talks about wearing of masks in a household with influenza (not covid-19) where positive results were only seen if family members adhered to mask wearing for the entire time.

Give us the sentence or stop posting lies on a public forum.
Because that is how it appears at the moment - you have just totally made up a claim about masks and assigned it to Dr Carl Heneghan when he said no such thing.

robinph

No: I don't care enough

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ok, arbitrator of what counts and what doesn’t. Hahaha. Not zealot like at all.

So do you belive that a 10 year old wearing a mask renders my mask useless, or could that possibly not be what anyone ever actually claimed aside from you?

Please define what YOU think counts then.

Spiderman0081

john4321 wrote: »

Hopefully after reading the below you might reconsider if you are listening to the correct person.



https://collegetribune.ie/ucd-doctor-makes-numerous-false-claims-about-covid-19/


"Cahill also claims that wearing face masks can lead to hypoxia which weakens the immune response. In other words, she is saying that the decreased amount of oxygen you inhale makes you less able to fight off the virus. Again, this has been thoroughly debunked. The use of masks does not result in hypoxia in healthy people, nor does it weaken the immune response. It is recommended that masks are not used on children under 2 with respiratory problems, but that is it. "



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ucd-professor-asked-to-resign-from-eu-committee-over-covid-19-claims-1.4277698


"Ms Cahill also supported the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19, one that has been supported, too, by US president Donald Trump. The drug, she said, is “safe and effective” in treating the disease."

Looks like Dr. John Cambell also believes that the use of hydroxychloroquine does help.
https://youtu.be/2uzXHnUViro

So many people are touching and pulling at their masks. Pulling used masks from their pockets, handbags etc. Therefore contaminating their hands and then touching stuff that others will then touch.

Masks used incorrectly may be doing as much damage as no masks and I say that as someone who has been using masks.

Washing hands is especially important in these circumstances, and people should consider washing down their shopping.

Spiderman0081

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So many people are touching and pulling at their masks. Pulling used masks from their pockets, handbags etc. Therefore contaminating their hands and then touching stuff that others will then touch.

Masks used incorrectly may be doing as much damage as no masks and I say that as someone who has been using masks.

Washing hands is especially important in these circumstances, and people should consider washing down their shopping.

That’s impossible. If that was the case wouldn’t cases be increasing in countries where masks have been mandatory like France and ....... oh wait

odyssey06

Deleted User wrote: »

So many people are touching and pulling at their masks. Pulling used masks from their pockets, handbags etc. Therefore contaminating their hands and then touching stuff that others will then touch.
Masks used incorrectly may be doing as much damage as no masks and I say that as someone who has been using masks.
Washing hands is especially important in these circumstances, and people should consider washing down their shopping.

Are you thinking about masks as PPE for the wearer and or about something to protect others?
The advice given early about masks and touching was framed re: masks as PPE for the wearer and when it was thought the virus spread primarily by contact \ surfaces.

If they are covering their mouths and noses with the mask, they are using it correctly for its primary purpose.

You can sanitise your hands if you touch a contaminated surface.
You can't sanitise your lungs if you have inhaled infected droplets.

If they aren't following mask discipline, do we really think they are being perfect at hand sanitising, not touching objects in their pocket, tissues, keys, their phone etc?
And of course, people should follow mask discipline and hand sanitising discipline.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

Are you thinking about masks as PPE for the wearer and or about something to protect others?
The advice given early about masks and touching was framed re: masks as PPE for the wearer and when it was thought the virus spread primarily by contact \ surfaces.

If they are covering their mouths and noses with the mask, they are using it correctly for its primary purpose.

You can sanitise your hands if you touch a contaminated surface.
You can't sanitise your lungs if you have inhaled infected droplets.

If they aren't following mask discipline, do we really think they are being perfect at hand sanitising, not touching objects in their pocket, tissues, keys, their phone etc?
And of course, people should follow mask discipline and hand sanitising discipline.

Ah arbitrator of all that is correct, you are now over-ruling the HSPC who have the current, up to date, do's and dont's of mask wearing on their website?? What are your qualifications?? :rolleyes: