Masks

odyssey06

On a 5 hour flight from Singapore, 11 of the 325 people on board were infected by one man... no mask worn.

An infected couple flew from China to Canada on 22 January, none of the 350 passengers on the 15-hour flight were infected. Masks were worn.

Notethat the air on a plane is replaced every 3-5 minutes. For comparison on a eurostar train every 15 minutes.

(from New Scientist)

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Something that is often overlooked regarding flights is the length of time parked pre and post flight. The air is not replaced at inflight rate when on the tarmac, more often it is stagnant.

arccosh

Seanergy wrote: »

Anyone got access to the Lancet? paper doi:10.1016/s1473-3099(07)70029-4

So we had Fauci and Luke O'Neil both citing that public would cause more harm to themselves than good if they donned masks in March, maybe they took this from the following paper.

We know airborne was cited as a route of transmission by HSE around the middle of March, albeit covered up now. It's very possible that HSE have known about airborne transmission since March but due to various reasons, possibly the reasons outlined below, have not publicly relayed this.

Here are 2 snippets from paper + a snippet of text from Charles V. Chapin.

yes... original article appears to have been in the journal in 2007 and there has been a lot of research since citing it which appears to argue against it... (disclaimer: I quickly browsed)

edit:

TLDR version for people who don't want to look up the lancet article:

Summary Planning for the next influenza pandemic is occurring at many levels throughout the world, spurred on by the recent spread of H5N1 avian influenza in Asia, Europe, and Africa. Central to these planning efforts in the health-care sector are strategies to minimise the transmission of influenza to health-care workers and patients. The infection control precautions necessary to prevent airborne, droplet, and contact transmission are quite different and will need to be decided on and planned before a pandemic occurs. Despite vast clinical experience in human beings, there continues to be much debate about how influenza is transmitted. We have done a systematic review of the English language experimental and epidemiological literature on this subject to better inform infection control planning efforts. We have found that the existing data are limited with respect to the identification of specific modes of transmission in the natural setting. However, we are able to conclude that transmission occurs at close range rather than over long distances, suggesting that airborne transmission, as traditionally defined, is unlikely to be of significance in most clinical settings. Further research is required to better define conditions under which the influenza virus may transmit via the airborne route

edit 2: it should be taken that this is for flu only, which is the most common infectious virus that is potentially leathal to humans.... it could be argued different viruses have different "infectivity" levels.... Ebola being higher than flu.... the verdict being out on COVID still

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Ventilation is good with airborne viruses. The HSE knew from the beginning this was airborne. Their advice from the beginning of this was to go into a room by yourself, with a phone and open a window. They just never actually said it was airborne. It's criminal behaviour from them really because face coverings at least should have been made mandatory for the public.

Just like the WHO the HSE didn't forsee that people would or could make their own, it became grossly negligent from March once the masksforall campaign had taken root and got worldwide media coverage.

jackboy wrote: »

There was a shortage of masks at the start so the HSE wanted healthcare workers to be first priority for getting these. They handled the shortage by lying to the public, claiming masks were dangerous and wearing them is worse than not wearing them.

The vast majority of the media and Irish scientists backed up the lies.

HSE prioritsed doctors in Hospital settings, majority of HCW's were thrown under the bus until April 22nd.

Leo is all talk currently about 90% of clusters happening in homes, where are the stats on clusters in health care settings from unmasked staff from begining of March until April 22nd? He kept quiet on that one. Face ceoverings were not tolerated in health care settings, had they been some of the transmission could have been greatly reduced.

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

odyssey06 wrote: »

On a 5 hour flight from Singapore, 11 of the 325 people on board were infected by one man... no mask worn.

An infected couple flew from China to Canada on 22 January, none of the 350 passengers on the 15-hour flight were infected. Masks were worn.

Notethat the air on a plane is replaced every 3-5 minutes. For comparison on a eurostar train every 15 minutes.

(from New Scientist)

Interesting with the 15 hour flight and no one was infected. What was up with that? Surely the masks would have been taken off for food and drinking. And I don't see the reason why they would immediately put their masks back on after eating if they didn't know they had it.

This whole virus is weird.

political analyst

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

That's why I said they should have made face coverings mandatory back in the early days. They just lied to us and allowed all this to happen, risking people's lives. Now all we have are anti-maskers who doesn't believe they work.

The government had to buy time for the manufacturing of non-surgical masks. Not everyone has the ability to make a mask at home.

Loafing Oaf

No: I don't care enough

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Interesting with the 15 hour flight and no one was infected. What was up with that? Surely the masks would have been taken off for food and drinking. And I don't see the reason why they would immediately put their masks back on after eating if they didn't know they had it.

This whole virus is weird.

Some people are infected but not very infectious I suppose...

political analyst

Seanergy wrote: »

Just like the WHO the HSE didn't forsee that people would or could make their own, it became grossly negligent from March once the masksforall campaign had taken root and got worldwide media coverage.

Some people can't. So the government had to buy time for the manufacturing of non-surgical masks.

Seanergy wrote: »

Leo is all talk currently about 90% of clusters happening in homes, where are the stats on clusters in health care settings from unmasked staff from begining of March until April 22nd? He kept quiet on that one. Face ceoverings were not tolerated in health care settings, had they been some of the transmission could have been greatly reduced.

Why would a health care employer not tolerate employees wearing masks?

AMKC

Yes: homemade

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

political analyst wrote: »

The government had to buy time for the manufacturing of non-surgical masks. Not everyone has the ability to make a mask at home.

They didn't have to. Masksforall was already in motion, countries who implemented idea of homemade masks were able to supply everyone, simple. Government here chose approach hmmm no they don't work..

political analyst

fr336 wrote: »

I wonder how many anti maskers rarely wash their hands...not folks id want to be socialising with

How about those people who wear masks improperly, i.e. not covering their noses, pulling them onto their chins or foreheads when they eat or drink?

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

fr336 wrote: »

I wonder how many anti maskers rarely wash their hands...not folks id want to be socialising with

Witnessed someone in work splash their hands with a bit of water. No proper hand washing. Then went off to lick her thumb to lift up papers. It would have been good if she kept her germs to herself but she had to pass on the papers. Disgusting behaviour.

political analyst

xhomelezz wrote: »

They didn't have to. Masksforall was already in motion, countries who implemented idea of homemade masks were able to supply everyone, simple. Government here chose approach hmmm no they don't work..

A lot of time passed before I saw masks on sale.

political analyst

AMKC wrote: »

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

Worse than not wearing a mask at all!

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

political analyst wrote: »

A lot of time passed before I saw masks on sale.

?? Got my first ones on eBay from Irish sellers straight away when this sh1t started..

odyssey06

political analyst wrote: »

Some people can't. So the government had to buy time for the manufacturing of non-surgical masks.

Why would a health care employer not tolerate employees wearing masks?

HSE were threatening disciplinary action against staff who wore then outside of v strict settings.
We had highest healthcare infection rate until policy changed. Nurses union were kicking up murder for policy to change.

arccosh

odyssey06 wrote: »

HSE were threatening disciplinary action against staff who wore then outside of v strict settings.
We had highest healthcare infection rate until policy changed. Nurses union were kicking up murder for policy to change.

have a relation working in a HSE hospital who mentioned this....


They are admin staff and even when the above rule was brought in, they were told they were low risk so didn't need any PPE or alcohol gel, yet were dealing with som patients and a lot of medical staff... they were bringing in their own long before any mandatory rules

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

AMKC wrote: »

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

Posted here last week of someone using those expensive kn95 masks. And it under their nose!!! I don't understand, just because you spend money on better masks, it doesn't mean you're better protected. They have to be used properly. I really don't understand because it's a mask that fits over the mouth and nose and hard to wear it any other way.

Polar101

I was on a train the other day, and the guy across the corridor from me had a mask on, until he started coughing. He then took it off so he could cough better.. and spent the rest of the trip coughing without the mask, and didn't bother covering his mouth or coughing into his elbow either. I understand some people genuinely have medical issues and masks might cause problems, but some people are just completely inconsiderate of others.

Dubl07

Yes: other

political analyst wrote: »

A lot of time passed before I saw masks on sale.

Ever heard of a needle and thread? Every cub scout got taught how to use them at around seven years old. Self-sufficiency. Heaven help you if the SHTF.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

political analyst wrote: »

Some people can't. So the government had to buy time for the manufacturing of non-surgical masks.

Why would a health care employer not tolerate employees wearing masks?

The government made no shapes to have non surgical masks made or surgical masks made for the public.

Why is an excellent question, pride? power?

Numerous reports of HSE heavies removing masks from nurses and HCW's because they were either (a) not advised to wear one under HSE mask policy (b) was not procured by HSE and was therefore could not be deemed safe.

Ohmeha

No: other

AMKC wrote: »

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

I've also seen a fair number of people today in shops and on the DART with masks worn only covering their mouths and not their nose, along with the constant mask touching there is still a big educational challenge facing the country on getting some people to use them properly along with understanding hygiene and you can see why community spread is happening

AMKC

Yes: homemade

Polar101 wrote: »

I was on a train the other day, and the guy across the corridor from me had a mask on, until he started coughing. He then took it off so he could cough better.. and spent the rest of the trip coughing without the mask, and didn't bother covering his mouth or coughing into his elbow either. I understand some people genuinely have medical issues and masks might cause problems, but some people are just completely inconsiderate of others.

What a selfish idiot. Sounds like he totally miss understood what the mask was for. I would have asked him for his number and then ring him a week later saying you are going to sue him for being a selfish fi,cker. That might make him think twice lol. I sneezed once while wearing one. Not fun but I did not think I know maybe If I take my mask off I might sneeze better because I was in a shop and not a selfish person. I did however throw that mask in the bin first change I got. I change my masks regularly.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

AMKC wrote: »

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

Polar101 wrote: »

I was on a train the other day, and the guy across the corridor from me had a mask on, until he started coughing. He then took it off so he could cough better.. and spent the rest of the trip coughing without the mask, and didn't bother covering his mouth or coughing into his elbow either. I understand some people genuinely have medical issues and masks might cause problems, but some people are just completely inconsiderate of others.

Maybe we need to start sharing our contact details with these people. Here is my card, would ya ever txt me if you end up being covid positive so that I can self isolate and try not to infect anyone else.

political analyst

Dubl07 wrote: »

Ever heard of a needle and thread? Every cub scout got taught how to use them at around seven years old. Self-sufficiency. Heaven help you if the SHTF.

Many children don't join scouting organisations, you know.

political analyst

odyssey06 wrote: »

HSE were threatening disciplinary action against staff who wore then outside of v strict settings.

On what grounds?

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Polar101 wrote: »

I was on a train the other day, and the guy across the corridor from me had a mask on, until he started coughing. He then took it off so he could cough better.. and spent the rest of the trip coughing without the mask, and didn't bother covering his mouth or coughing into his elbow either. I understand some people genuinely have medical issues and masks might cause problems, but some people are just completely inconsiderate of others.

Covidiot. What did he think the mask was for? To be allowed on the train? And then to do what they want after that. And coughing is one medical issue that you definitely need a mask, no excuses. Should have been fcuked off the train.

RoYoBo

Yes: valved

We need an intensive educational drive for proper wearing of masks, similar to the Happy Birthday hand washing. My suggestion: Hands, face masks, mouth & nose, mouth & nose - you know, like the knees & toes nursery song.

Ash.J.Williams

Yes: homemade

I believe we have George the penguin Mitchell to thank for our masks, sound investment:)

Spiderman0081

AMKC wrote: »

So I was in Lidi doing my shopping today and when I was at the till there was a guy not at the till I was at but at the next one and he had his mask half on. What I mean buy that is he had it covering his mouth and not his nose. How utterly thick and selfish has someone got to be doing that. I wanted to say something and even thought of taking a picture but in the end I just gave him my angry eye look. I just hope the till assistant said something to him.

I know that you wanted to say something but it’s lucky you didn’t get too close. You would have been putting yourself in the danger zone. Close call