Broken window - whose responsibility?

sarahdxb

Hello
I have an apartment in which the patio door/window is broken and needs to be replaced.
My insurance company say that as an apartment owner my insurance only covers the contents of my apartment (provided by myself) not the actual building. However the management company say it is my responsibility to cover the cost of replacements (coming in at circa 2.5k).
IMO since the patio door/window is an integral part of the external walls of the building, therefore they are structural and also have a function in keeping the building weatherproofed, that this issue falls under the responsibility of the Management Company?
My management fees are fully paid and up to date
Any advice gratefully received....
Thanks

listermint

If you broke the window.

It's on you to replace it.

Glass is surprisingly not that expensive btw

Did you break it?

sarahdxb

Thanks for your response Listermint
I wish it was only the glass that needed replacing
The window/door swung open in the wind (while the tenant was there) and smashed into the wall breaking the wooden frame off its hinges
I had a window fitter out to secure the door so that the tenant is protected from the elements until it can be replaced, and he advised me that as the door is part of a larger (wooden) frame which encompasses the patio doors as well as a window either side, the whole unit will need to be replaced at an approximate cost of €2.5k....

sarahdxb

Shelby Wonderful Harpoon wrote: »

Did you break it?

No, it was an accident that happened while the tenant was there

RedXIV

sarahdxb wrote: »

Thanks for your response Listermint
I wish it was only the glass that needed replacing
The window/door swung open in the wind (while the tenant was there) and smashed into the wall breaking the wooden frame off its hinges
I had a window fitter out to secure the door so that the tenant is protected from the elements until it can be replaced, and he advised me that as the door is part of a larger (wooden) frame which encompasses the patio doors as well as a window either side, the whole unit will need to be replaced at an approximate cost of €2.5k....

No advice to offer but this is a very interesting scenario. As its an apartment, I'd have assumed that something like this would have been covered by the management company? Very curious as to the outcome of this

Steer55

sarahdxb wrote: »

No, it was an accident that happened while the tenant was there[/quote

House insurance??

tabby aspreme

Is it just the hinges that are broken, or is the door/door frame damaged also

Steer55

Steer55 wrote: »

House insurance??

That's in the OP, the insurance company say contents only.

Wabbit Ears

Interesting one, Id never consider doors or windows to be part of the building as they arent structural but Id say it realy depends on the specifics of it. Check you paperwork to see if there is specific notes on this, my guess is its covered there.

sarahdxb

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Is it just the hinges that are broken, or is the door/door frame damaged also

Hinges as well as frame unfortunately, so much so that it is irreparable, and necessitates a full replacement

sarahdxb

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Interesting one, Id never consider doors or windows to be part of the building as they arent structural but Id say it realy depends on the specifics of it. Check you paperwork to see if there is specific notes on this, my guess is its covered there.

Hi Wabbit Ears
What paperwork do you mean? Something that I would have received from the Management Company? or on the deeds of the apartment which are with the bank? Sorry I'm not quite sure what to look for...

Even if it is not structural, the management company have stipulated that the new patio door must be in keeping with the original / other doors in the development. Surely this means it is under their remit since they have a vested interest in having all the windows the same (it is front facing aswell)

whippet

It may well be argued that it is part of the structure of the building - and is covered by the Mgt Company. However - many of these insurancece policies that the Mgt company have come with an excess of approx €5k that must be paid for by the member of the mgt company who is making the claim.

So while in theory you would be claiming off the mgt company's insurance you would have to pay for the first 5k worth of the bill.

pwurple

It's generally not the management company in my experience. I've seen this a couple of times before and it was always the unit owner for windows. Always as they have stated above, windows and doors are the unit owners, but they can stipulate the finish.

whippet

pwurple wrote: »

but they can stipulate the finish.

This will all be in the lease that the OP would have signed when buying the property. But it would be very unusual that the Mgt wouldn't stipulate what the replacement needs to be.

Dav010

Op, consider how much your management fees are going to go up each year if MC was responsible for all windows/doors broken for reasons other than defect. The wind catching an unsecured door is user fault, it should not be a burden to other unit owners.

grasshopper31

I had something similar happen to my rented apartment ,window in patio door while tenants were away, (supposedly), stone was thrown at it and it shattered.
While not as expensive as yours, I had to pay it myself, the excess on the building insurance was too high, so I couldn't claim . .but @2.5k I would definitely go through block insurance.

Wabbit Ears

sarahdxb wrote: »

Hi Wabbit Ears
What paperwork do you mean? Something that I would have received from the Management Company? or on the deeds of the apartment which are with the bank? Sorry I'm not quite sure what to look for...

Even if it is not structural, the management company have stipulated that the new patio door must be in keeping with the original / other doors in the development. Surely this means it is under their remit since they have a vested interest in having all the windows the same (it is front facing aswell)

All the details of who owns what and responsibilities etc are in the contract of sale when I purchased the apartment.

My contract of sale form my house has the same with regards to where pipes are and building of walls and stuff.

The management company have a say in style and often will paint the exterior to keep consistency but they dont own the windows, doors and the framework IMHO.

Get those added to your insurance

sarahdxb

whippet wrote: »

This will all be in the lease that the OP would have signed when buying the property. But it would be very unusual that the Mgt wouldn't stipulate what the replacement needs to be.

Ok thanks

whippet

grasshopper31 wrote: »

.but @2.5k I would definitely go through block insurance.

Block insurance could have an excess of €5k or more

sarahdxb

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, consider how much your management fees are going to go up each year if MC was responsible for all windows/doors broken for reasons other than defect. The wind catching an unsecured door is user fault, it should not be a burden to other unit owners.

Management fees are already going up every year
I don't expect it to be covered by the management fees, but would have thought that the building insurance that they have in place (paid for my the management fees) covers things like this.....

Rodney Bathgate

Unlikely that the block policy has an insurable interest in an individual apartments window. A common area window, yes, but this, I doubt it.

The tenants actions directly caused this (even if unintentional), they should be held liable and should contribute some or all of the cost with the owner covering the remainder.

Rodney Bathgate

sarahdxb wrote: »

Management fees are already going up every year
I don't expect it to be covered by the management fees, but would have thought that the building insurance that they have in place (paid for my the management fees) covers things like this.....

Do you know what the policy excess is?

_Brian

Sorry as a landlord myself that one is on the tenant.

They weren’t careful with the door allowing it to be damaged while they were using it.

It didn’t just disintegrate.
It wasn’t an act of god, they were using it.
It’s not wear and tear.

This is their issue.
Or if you must do it yourself it’s their deposit gone at least.

Del2005

sarahdxb wrote: »

Even if it is not structural, the management company have stipulated that the new patio door must be in keeping with the original / other doors in the development. Surely this means it is under their remit since they have a vested interest in having all the windows the same (it is front facing aswell)

That would be a planning permission issue which the management company is enforcing.

OP it wasn't an accident your tenant broke the door by leaving it open and allowing the wind to catch it, we've all done it but most are lucky that nothing gets damaged. To do as much damage as you say it must have been very windy. If this was a proper country you could chase the tenant for the damage but that's not possible here.

The excess on your block policy will easily be 2.5k if not higher and if you do claim then the policy will be more next year.

10pennymixup

Something similar happened to a friend of mine very recently (a tenant). The tradesman that first came to shore up the damage told them the hard wood frame and door both had to be replaced and would cost around €2k plus labour.

Called a local joinery that cut out 200mm sections of the door frame and "window" frame and epoxy glued in new sections, fitted new hinges. Tenant repainted the frames €250 (cash) all in.

You would never know now there was ever any damage and according to the joiner the glue is stronger than the original wood.

Btw it was my mates fault, not the landlords not the management companies, and he paid.

godtabh

The tenant broke (accident or not) its your responsibility to repair it.

You own to the inner leaf of the building. From reading my lease (and I assume yours is similar) you cant alter external fixtures or fittings without MC approval. My reading of that is that is is their responsibility to fix it but can charge the excess to you as you broke it. Our excess is €5k.

Its not structural (the lintel above it is).

grasshopper31

whippet wrote: »

Block insurance could have an excess of €5k or more

I was told the excess on block policy was €1k.

whippet

grasshopper31 wrote: »

I was told the excess on block policy was €1k.

I’ve seen many with 5k excess on them ... 1k is very low but i suppose is possible

It would be a fairly high premium with such a low excess

Mellor

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Interesting one, Id never consider doors or windows to be part of the building as they arent structural but Id say it realy depends on the specifics of it. Check you paperwork to see if there is specific notes on this, my guess is its covered there.

External facade is almost always base building. They are part of the common property, and not typically owned by unit owner.

sarahdxb wrote: »

Even if it is not structural, the management company have stipulated that the new patio door must be in keeping with the original / other doors in the development. Surely this means it is under their remit since they have a vested interest in having all the windows the same (it is front facing aswell)

They can have any number of clauses in the by-laws related to building, that's doesn't mean they have to pay to comply with them.

Even if they own the windows, they doesn't mean that are obligated to pay for damage that somebody else did.

That said, a door stop, closer, or some other limiting hardware should have been fitted to prevent the door from hitting the jamb.

endacl

Tenants should cover it as they were responsible for the damage. It's not wear and tear. You could facilitate staged payments if it suits you. Alternatively you could retain their deposit to take some of the sting out of the cost. Downside is you'll have to wait till the end of the tenancy to recoup this, and it probably won't cover the full amount.