R Kings and other car raffles

Duke O Smiley

I would say their profits are into the millions certainly

unhappys10

shaveAbullock wrote: »

The business is making a lot more than €3.65 million profit a year?

If they only do 3 cars a day at 2k profit each every day for a year plus 1 big draw a week at 15k profit that comes to 2,964,000 pounds a year.
I'm sure some are more than 2k profit each.

shaveAbullock

unhappys10 wrote: »

If they only do 3 cars a day at 2k profit each every day for a year plus 1 big draw a week at 15k profit that comes to 2,964,000 pounds a year.
I'm sure some are more than 2k profit each.

But that would be before tax, wouldn't it?

unhappys10

shaveAbullock wrote: »

But that would be before tax, wouldn't it?

As with any second hand car related business, I'm sure not everything goes through the books.
Buying cars for cash and getting rid of them within a day or 2, they definitely aren't declaring everything.

It's a licence to print money even with tax, they have close to no overheads.

Buy a car, stick it on website, broadcast a draw and meet winner.

User1998

unhappys10 wrote: »

they definitely aren't declaring everything.

And you know this how?

unhappys10

User1998 wrote: »

And you know this how?

Fairly safe assumption to make I'd imagine but feel free to think what you like.

shaveAbullock

It's hard to know.
HM Revenue and Customs can be fairly ruthless if they think they are missing out on significant ammount of revenue.
All the cars are up on the site with records of tickets sold. I guess the one thing that could be done to avoid tax is claim they pay more for cars than they do. But they would still have to keep records that at least look believable.

adam88

unhappys10 wrote: »

Fairly safe assumption to make I'd imagine but feel free to think what you like.

I say it be hard to hide the money sap when it’s going through an online platform. Be very very easy for her majesty’s government to find out how many tickets they sold for x amount. Now what they could do is inflate the price they paid for the products so as to reduce their margins but not many people are going to want to accept 15k in cash for a car. Especially nowadays.

Fair play to them. Many lads trying to get in on the act but I think they have it sewn up. No catching them now

unhappys10

adam88 wrote: »

I say it be hard to hide the money sap when it’s going through an online platform. Be very very easy for her majesty’s government to find out how many tickets they sold for x amount. Now what they could do is inflate the price they paid for the products so as to reduce their margins but not many people are going to want to accept 15k in cash for a car. Especially nowadays.

Fair play to them. Many lads trying to get in on the act but I think they have it sewn up. No catching them now

Yeh I don't think the others have a hope now.
Some money spinner though.
Even paying taxes it's money for nothing.

mooseknunkle

unhappys10 wrote: »

If they only do 3 cars a day at 2k profit each every day for a year plus 1 big draw a week at 15k profit that comes to 2,964,000 pounds a year.
I'm sure some are more than 2k profit each.

If someone is making that much money in Northern Ireland raffling cars it won't be long before certain groups will be looking for a cut if they aren't already,fair play to whoever is running it but it won't last forever.

They said in the comments for the Lamborghini that it was a private seller,be interesting to see if others will be offering their high end cars to them.

shaveAbullock

It's easy to find a high end car for sale from a private seller in the UK. All they have to do is check pistonheads.com and make a few offers.

DoctorStrange

unhappys10 wrote: »

As with any second hand car related business, I'm sure not everything goes through the books.
Buying cars for cash and getting rid of them within a day or 2, they definitely aren't declaring everything.

It's a licence to print money even with tax, they have close to no overheads.

Buy a car, stick it on website, broadcast a draw and meet winner.

Start tomorrow, you'll have your first million before Christmas.

sasta le

I see the guy that was arrested in Limerick that ran Bawn Motors is plugging a raffle for Top Spec Motors in Newmarket Co.Cork

BobBobBobBob

Is Top Specs Motors ran by the lad that owned/owns Roskeen Motors?

millington

unhappys10 wrote: »

As with any second hand car related business, I'm sure not everything goes through the books.
Buying cars for cash and getting rid of them within a day or 2, they definitely aren't declaring everything.

It's a licence to print money even with tax, they have close to no overheads.

Buy a car, stick it on website, broadcast a draw and meet winner.

Everything is going through the bank so I doubt any of it is being hidden. With the profit levels, and the lack of expenditure relative to other businesses with that turnover, why even bother hiding anything.

adam88

mooseknunkle wrote: »

If someone is making that much money in Northern Ireland raffling cars it won't be long before certain groups will be looking for a cut if they aren't already,fair play to whoever is running it but it won't last forever.

They said in the comments for the Lamborghini that it was a private seller,be interesting to see if others will be offering their high end cars to them.

By certain groups you mean groups looking for protection money ??

sasta le

adam88 wrote: »

By certain groups you mean groups looking for protection money ??

Thats a good point.Be also handy way to launder money as it it a legit business

TigerTim

How do ye keep an eye on the draws. I only dip in & out of FB & often miss them as they sell out quickly. Any way of getting notification.

T.

Mc Love

My notifications on Snapchat and facebook dont work half the time, just have their competitions page open and refresh it every so often

cantdecide

I've heard of winners down here in Cork in my extended motoring community too, in recent times.

I went onto their FB page and seeing very little activity lately. I wonder is it Covid related?

Kevwoody

cantdecide wrote:

I went onto their FB page and seeing very little activity lately. I wonder is it Covid related?

Scroll down past the first post, which is February advising against replica pages.

They have a live draw and multiple posts every single day!

RandomViewer

Kevwoody wrote: »

Scroll down past the first post, which is February advising against replica pages.

They have a live draw and multiple posts every single day!

VW Amorok, Samsung phone bundle, Dewalt tool draw,flying

RandomViewer

sasta le wrote: »

Thats a good point.Be also handy way to launder money as it it a legit business

Unlikely, high profile business, mostlaundering will be through off licences at the moment

cantdecide

Kevwoody wrote: »

Scroll down past the first post, which is February advising against replica pages.

They have a live draw and multiple posts every single day!

Maybe I'm struggling with the new FB format but I scrolled all the way down and the CRX SiR is the only one in the first dozen or so listings that isn't sold out.

I don't see a post later than the 6th of May.

Dravokivich

Facebook makes it hard to see posts in order. It's got some code setup to present you, what it thinks you want to see. You're better off just going to their website. I think they've a newsletter you can sub to.

sasta le

My mate told me Bawn Motors is linked with Top Spec Motors and raffles

Duke O Smiley

TigerTim wrote: »

How do ye keep an eye on the draws. I only dip in & out of FB & often miss them as they sell out quickly. Any way of getting notification.

T.

I think its best just to check their website to be honest, seems to be updated straight away with their new stuff. You can subscribe to their "newsletter" which is for new raffles I think

adam88

Turn on notifications on Snapchat and everytime they post you’ll see it

sasta le

adam88 wrote: »

CaB would be all over that.

Same owner anyway as Bawn Motors just checked director

pinktoe

sasta le wrote: »

Same owner anyway as Bawn Motors just checked director

Really?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI656489/officers

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/IE549866/STEPHEN-BAWN-MOTORS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

shaveAbullock

sasta le wrote: »

I see the guy that was arrested in Limerick that ran Bawn Motors is plugging a raffle for Top Spec Motors in Newmarket Co.Cork

pinktoe wrote: »

Really?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI656489/officers

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/IE549866/STEPHEN-BAWN-MOTORS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

Wrong link...?

pinktoe

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Wrong link...?

Ah I'm half asleep. I thought Sasta was talking about RKings

sasta le

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000327083914
As you can see he plugs Top Spec motors and raffles

shaveAbullock

sasta le wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000327083914
As you can see he plugs Top Spec motors and raffles

Is that Stephen O'sullivan who was the director of bawn motors?

TrailerBob

Why do I get the impression that every car on that Top Spec site has been on a Garda database of some kind, or may not pass a sniffer dog if we had them at the roadside... Maybe it's just me.

Truckermal

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Is that Stephen O'sullivan who was the director of bawn motors?

It sure is..

Mc Love

That's fair dodgy

TigerTim

It's a pity or a ploy that R Kings don't but the year on a lot of the newer stuff. Always like to do a VRT check on what's being raffled. Only interested in the older stuff really. Ran a VRT check on a car that had the year on it & the bill came in at 15K. Couldn't afford that even if I got the car for £25.

Liked & entered the draw for the 2 x RS2000s that they raffled

My tuppence worth,

T.

Mc Love

Dont forget the NoX charge on top of the VRT - you could always sell it on.

bcklschaps

Had a look at the R kings website.

Soo its basically an auction website ..

for example

Husqvarna 701 2018 ...they are selling 695 tickets @£;12.50 per ticket ....soo they are looking for £8685 ..... the open market value of that is about £6000, (they are probably buying it for maybe a bit less) and if necessary I guess they cancel/postpone the raffle until they have cleared the buying price plus a certain % profit.

nice little business.

Just a few side notes.


- Its a sucker business, in other words, put a prize up in lights (ie. like the lottery) and the pleople who are practically broke will invest whatever little cash they have... regardless of the hopeless odds of winning. I remember when I was broke stuck in a dead-end job years ago ...I was a serious lottery player ..(with my own sure-fire-win schemes and all!!!) I then got a better job and suddenly could afford everything I wanted, I never played the lottery again.


- a related point to this then would be ..... most of the winners must be these dreamers who would have no chance of owning those wheels otherwise ....(highly likely they won't even have the readies to pay the VRT, road tax, insurance, repairs etc.) soo .... there must be a nice side-line market in buying up these prizes on the cheap?.


20yro Johnny on €200/week Jobseekers has no business with a €50k sports car....and could easily be persuaded to part with it for half that.


I know in the T&C's they explain that there is no cash eqivalent prize ... but I wonder do R Kings (or an associated company) make some sort of derogatory cash offer to buy back the prize after the draw ... ??

For instance an identical Husqvarna 701 was won by somebody else on their winners page ...fairly recently .... (what a coincidence...two rare seemingly identical motorcycles on the same raffle website)

ELM327

They apparently offer the "sell it to the trade" price

bcklschaps

ELM327 wrote: »

They apparently offer the "sell it to the trade" price

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I see one young lad in the winners photos, He's probably 22 or 23yro and he's just won a 2017 BMW X5M a car worth about €60k ... if he is a republic resident he'd be looking down the barrel of €20k in VRT to import it and the running costs would be insane. €500 for a tyre etc.


Probabaly offered him €30k ....and off he goes.

The way to work out best is probably to buy a good few tickets for something less valuable that you might actually want to keep ...thereby increasing the chances of winning and decreasing the chances of having to hand it back at a savage discount.

Also maybe keep an eye on the value of the prize re : the value of the tickets sold...if there's too big a difference ...forget it .. :cool:

TigerTim

bcklschaps wrote: »

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I see one young lad in the winners photos, He's probably 22 or 23yro and he's just won a 2017 BMW X5M a car worth about €60k ... if he is a republic resident he'd be looking down the barrel of €20k in VRT to import it and the running costs would be insane. €500 for a tyre etc.

Did a VRT check on that BMW. Think it worked out about €26K !!.

T.

ELM327

Was it a proper X5M with the V8? I'd love to win that and have to pay only 20k for it!
Then again I'm not the usual target for that line of thought, my current car cost me 50k.

I only enter the competition when there's a low enough number of tickets and it's something I want to keep. EG the ford range wildtrack and jeep cherokee recently.

unhappys10

bcklschaps wrote: »

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I see one young lad in the winners photos, He's probably 22 or 23yro and he's just won a 2017 BMW X5M a car worth about €60k ... if he is a republic resident he'd be looking down the barrel of €20k in VRT to import it and the running costs would be insane. €500 for a tyre etc.


Probabaly offered him €30k ....and off he goes.

The way to work out best is probably to buy a good few tickets for something less valuable that you might actually want to keep ...thereby increasing the chances of winning and decreasing the chances of having to hand it back at a savage discount.

Also maybe keep an eye on the value of the prize re : the value of the tickets sold...if there's too big a difference ...forget it .. :cool:

What?!
Why would you forget it? What has the value of the tickets sold and the value of the prize got to do with it?

The winner paid roughly €30, they couldn't care less what the value of the ticket sales were.

If I won that X5M for €30 and they offered me 30k I would be absolutely delighted with the 1000x return on my investment, there is no savage discount as you put it. I'm up 29,970, I don't care that I could be up 59,970, if they want to hand me 30k for a spin up north and no hassle of trying to sell something then so be it!

No one said you have to keep it, it could be 1,000 a tyre and 50k vrt for all I care. I'd have paid 30 and gotten back 30k.
No one holding a gun to your head telling you to vrt it and drive it for the rest of your day's.

Duke O Smiley

Exactly my thoughts. €30k for a 30 quid investment, why would anyone be complaining? I'd rather take my chances with a raffle like that than with the National Lotto!

TigerTim

I'd be happy enough with that too if they have a buy back policy.€10K would do me. At least I'd be up that for €30.Wouldn't fancy trying to offload something with a 25K VRT bill down my side of the country at the mo.

T.

unhappys10

TigerTim wrote: »

I'd be happy enough with that too if they have a buy back policy.€10K would do me. At least I'd be up that for €30.Wouldn't fancy trying to offload something with a 25K VRT bill down my side of the country at the mo.

T.

My friend won that RS6 a couple of weeks ago, he just went up and they had cash waiting for him if he wanted it, which he did.

sasta le

unhappys10 wrote: »

My friend won that RS6 a couple of weeks ago, he just went up and they had cash waiting for him if he wanted it, which he did.

Hard cold cash or how was he paid

bcklschaps

unhappys10 wrote: »

What?!
Why would you forget it? What has the value of the tickets sold and the value of the prize got to do with it?
.

I think you misunderstood me ... you don't forfeit a winning prize .... (don't be nuts)

You just save your powder and only enter raffles that are the best value (to you)....