Airlines breaking EU law by not offering refunds

murphaph

fishy_fishy wrote: »

The more people who demand cash in case the airline goes bust, the greater the likelihood of that being a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you can survive without the cash then you probably should take a voucher. Sure, if the flights cost a lot then get your cash back, but if every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their 29.99 refunded that guarantees insolvency for the airline.

Most of the major players have fairly good balance sheets going into this. They can mostly survive this IF Joe public doesn't decide to be a dick about money they could well afford to spend when they booked the flights, and money they would barely notice going back into their account. This isn't an immediate profitability issue - it's cash flow.

If your €50 or €100 is worth more than the ability to travel affordably in the medium term, go ahead, do that chargeback. But don't whinge when you can't afford to go to costa del shiithole twice a year anytime in the next few years.

I paid over €600 for my family of 3 to fly Berlin-Dublin this evening (and back next week). Aer Lingus was happy to charge top dollar for the flights over Easter and now they can't deliver and to be honest ANY sympathy I might have for them has evaporated because of how they are dealing with this. They are being as in-transparent as they possibly can.

The flight is cancelled. If you try to manage the booking you get a pop up saying that it's not possible and to call customer services. I call the number for Germany and I get a recorded message telling me that they can't process my call and to try again later.

If you go beyond the manage booking part and try to check in then you can see that the outbound leg is indeed cancelled but the return is still showing as flying and check in is available. Not much use to me if I can't make the outbound flight in the first place of course.

Aer Lingus does not know where I live. I happen to live 20km from Tegel Airport but I might live in Western Poland (loads of people from there fly to Dublin via Berlin) or anywhere in Eastern Germany. In short, I might hop in the car and drive a long way to the airport to find my flight is cancelled. Aer Lingus KNOW the flight this evening is cancelled but have sent no email to this effect. This is not an isolated case. Several people have reported here o boards that Aer Lingus made no attempt to contact them to inform them their flight was cancelled. That is reprehensible. They have actively done this. The normal flow would see emails sent automatically if a flight is cancelled. They have switched this functionality off so nobody gets this information. Most will put the pieces together but some people aren't that tech savvy and will go to the airport and find out there. That's crappy.

As I also said already, what use is an Aer Lingus voucher to me if Aer Lingus doesn't serve Berlin after all this? There is projected to be a big reduction in competition post crisis. Aer Lingus has been more focused on transatlantic of late. They may well simply stop the Berlin-Dublin route leaving me with a €600 voucher I can't use.

It's easy for someone in Ireland who has a cheap flight booked on an airline that will likely fly somewhere they want to go afterwards to say "let it go" but that's not a given for us at all.

OldBean

Just a quick reminder that the T&C on any vouchers airlines give in these situations can be quite restrictive.

Outside of what's happening at the moment I'd be reluctant to take a voucher from an airline.

Padraig Mor

fishy_fishy wrote: »

The more people who demand cash in case the airline goes bust, the greater the likelihood of that being a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you can survive without the cash then you probably should take a voucher. Sure, if the flights cost a lot then get your cash back, but if every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their 29.99 refunded that guarantees insolvency for the airline.

Most of the major players have fairly good balance sheets going into this. They can mostly survive this IF Joe public doesn't decide to be a dick about money they could well afford to spend when they booked the flights, and money they would barely notice going back into their account. This isn't an immediate profitability issue - it's cash flow.

If your €50 or €100 is worth more than the ability to travel affordably in the medium term, go ahead, do that chargeback. But don't whinge when you can't afford to go to costa del shiithole twice a year anytime in the next few years.

What a pile of crap. I have ~€700 in cancelled flights with Ryanair (plus another ~€500 that haven't been cancelled - yet). I take your central point and - all else being equal - would be happy enough with a voucher for at least some of the amount as I know I'd use it. However, things aren't equal - I have no expectation that the airlines will not increase their fares when all this is over, making the vouchers worthless in real terms. Witness the many reports that people who opted to rebook with Ryanair (rather than refund) were brought to a booking page with significantly higher prices than a normal booking.

From news reports re EU negotiations it seems clear to me that governments are likely to introduce some form of 'voucher instead of refund' scheme shortly. I have no doubt this is why Ryanair don't seem to have actually given anyone their money back yet - they're stalling because they believe this change is imminent. Not sure of the relevance but I got two more automated emails yesterday re cancellations (of return flights where the outgoing flights had already been canceled) from Ryanair. Clicking the refund link just returned an error and a redirection to their customer service page. Now, I had already submitted for refunds for those flights (when the outbound flights were cancelled) so that may be the issue, but I'm pretty sure I've seen people here and elsewhere do the same and not get an error. Preparing for vouchers? If such a scheme does come to pass, I cannot see how it would retrospectively apply to bookings already made but there wouldn't be much point in it otherwise.

fishy_fishy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What a pile of crap. I have ~€700 in cancelled flights with Ryanair (plus another ~€500 that haven't been cancelled - yet). I take your central point and - all else being equal - would be happy enough with a voucher for at least some of the amount as I know I'd use it. However, things aren't equal - I have no expectation that the airlines will not increase their fares when all this is over, making the vouchers worthless in real terms. Witness the many reports that people who opted to rebook with Ryanair (rather than refund) were brought to a booking page with significantly higher prices than a normal booking.

From news reports re EU negotiations it seems clear to me that governments are likely to introduce some form of 'voucher instead of refund' scheme shortly. I have no doubt this is why Ryanair don't seem to have actually given anyone their money back yet - they're stalling because they believe this change is imminent. Not sure of the relevance but I got two more automated emails yesterday re cancellations (of return flights where the outgoing flights had already been canceled) from Ryanair. Clicking the refund link just returned an error and a redirection to their customer service page. Now, I had already submitted for refunds for those flights (when the outbound flights were cancelled) so that may be the issue, but I'm pretty sure I've seen people here and elsewhere do the same and not get an error. Preparing for vouchers? If such a scheme does come to pass, I cannot see how it would retrospectively apply to bookings already made but there wouldn't be much point in it otherwise.

Pile of crap? I wasn't talking about significant expenditure. And everything I said was accurate - you just don't like it.

If peope want airlines to still exist, bleeding them of any cash they have over trivial amounts instead of taking a voucher is the exact opposite to what they should do.

lawred2

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What a pile of crap. I have ~€700 in cancelled flights with Ryanair (plus another ~€500 that haven't been cancelled - yet). I take your central point and - all else being equal - would be happy enough with a voucher for at least some of the amount as I know I'd use it. However, things aren't equal - I have no expectation that the airlines will not increase their fares when all this is over, making the vouchers worthless in real terms. Witness the many reports that people who opted to rebook with Ryanair (rather than refund) were brought to a booking page with significantly higher prices than a normal booking.

From news reports re EU negotiations it seems clear to me that governments are likely to introduce some form of 'voucher instead of refund' scheme shortly. I have no doubt this is why Ryanair don't seem to have actually given anyone their money back yet - they're stalling because they believe this change is imminent. Not sure of the relevance but I got two more automated emails yesterday re cancellations (of return flights where the outgoing flights had already been canceled) from Ryanair. Clicking the refund link just returned an error and a redirection to their customer service page. Now, I had already submitted for refunds for those flights (when the outbound flights were cancelled) so that may be the issue, but I'm pretty sure I've seen people here and elsewhere do the same and not get an error. Preparing for vouchers? If such a scheme does come to pass, I cannot see how it would retrospectively apply to bookings already made but there wouldn't be much point in it otherwise.

I got my money back

Padraig Mor

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Pile of crap? I wasn't talking about significant expenditure. And everything I said was accurate - you just don't like it.

If peope want airlines to still exist, bleeding them of any cash they have over trivial amounts instead of taking a voucher is the exact opposite to what they should do.

You miss my point. As I said, I accept what you're saying on the face of it, but it's very possible that the vouchers you want people to accept will, in real terms, be literally worthless if their value is cancelled out by price rises.

edit: for contrast, Premier Inn offered me a refund for a stay in May which could - in theory at least - still go ahead. I accepted and had my money a few days later.

maestroamado

There are two threads on this topic, this relevant to both?

I was having a look about this, this seems to be the way it's going.

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-vouchers-refund

I expect the airlines are stalling for a week or so.
To paraphrase Charlton Heston, if you want your money back you will have to take it from their cold, dead hands.

Dayor Knight

Had a BA flight to US booked through Expedia. Rang Expedia on Thursday, go a call back and spent about 2 hours on phone while lady was processing this (including looking up conditions, contacting airline, processing refund). Was told it was very good news, I would get refund which would take 5 to 8 weeks (!). I asked for email confirmation and was told a colleague would be sending one about four hours later. Only emails I've got are the options to cancel and re-book, though these seem to be general ones that would have been going out anyway. Can't get back in touch to confirm so I guess I'll just have to wait up to 8 weeks now to see if a refund comes. I'm not that optimistic, to be honest. Will see what happens.

From looking at prices being quoted in December, I expect flights later in the year to be significantly more expensive as everyone tries to use their vouchers, so quite likely you'll end up paying as much again if you take a voucher. Realistically, there will be no flights for a few months so the one year voucher will really be viable to use for probably about six months (if that - who really knows).

Am sympathetic to the troubles the airlines are in, but it's also a basic principle that if you book something and the seller can't provide then you should be refunded (in this case that's the law). If I do get the refund, I will be using it to re-book this trip with one of the airlines when that becomes possible, so one of them will get my business, but I'd like the option to pick which airline I travel with next time. Competition drives prices we can afford, and mass issuing of vouchers will eliminate the competition factor with a significant impact on flight prices.

To be honest, this is not the biggest issue for any of us right now - staying safe and healthy is, and if we have the possibility of travel again in the next year that will wonderful in its own right. But if I do have that opportunity I'd like to have the choice to select which airline I travel with based on their flight timings and prices at that time. Will see how this unfolds.

beggars_bush

maestroamado wrote: »

Booked Air France.
Just to make people aware as to what was happening 6 months ago.
I had a flight to Thailand in October delayed by 24 hours.
Reason Stobart Air Dub/Ams late so missed connection.
Stranded in 4 star hotel Ams free acc/food.
Got same flight 24 hours later.
Was advised apply compensation.
Was advised may get more if i accept voucher so went with this.
Max cash amount €600, got €800 voucher.
I hope they don't go under.
Personally i think the established ones be ok but you never know....

French government will never let air france fail

JimmyVik

Just so poeple know. If you try to get the money back through your travel insurance then you will have to pay an excess which will be about €80 per flight per person, so double that for the return flight claim.

Your particular excess will be in your policy document.

Also, if they offer you to rebook your flight, dont fall for that. Take the money for the cancellation and then book whenever you need to for your new flight.

And be damned sure that voucher terms and conditions will be designed to make you lose the voucher eother by time limiting it or putting conditions on it that make it impossible for you to use it. Otr the famous one where it costs you €20 in phone call charges to use a voucher and you get no change if you dont use the whole value.

Take the cash, and book a new flight with it when you need it with that cash. If they dont offer it do a chargeback on your card. Do not take vouchers. You will lose out one way or another with them.

k123456

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

Technocentral

lawred2 wrote: »

Ryanair refunded a cancelled flight in full to us

When were you due to fly?

topcat16

aerlingus support flight-disruption-information

Can't post the link but scroll to the the bottom under coronavirus FAQs, I've just applied for full refund there and received an automated reply suggesting that I will get a full refund

scoobydude

Was due to fly on 24th of April. Received an email from Ryanair today informing me the flight was cancelled, and I could take a refund or take a voucher. The refund process could not have been easier. I expect it will take a while (they estimate 20 days due to demand) but fair play to them in how they handled it so far.

Sono Topolino

johnire wrote: »

What happens if the airline does go bust and you’re left with a useless voucher??


quote="Sono Topolino;113075665"]Anyone asking for a refund is being a dick. I understand that you cannot travel and this isn’t your fault, but neither is it the airline’s fault and they shouldn’t have to go bust.

Take the voucher and be grateful.

[/quote]


Then they wouldn’t have had the money to pay you to begin with.

I received a voucher from Aer Lingus for a cancelled trip to Germany. I actually want Aer Lingus to survive and not go bust, because airline monopolies will hurt me more in the long run.

topcat16

scoobydude wrote: »

Was due to fly on 24th of April. Received an email from Ryanair today informing me the flight was cancelled, and I could take a refund or take a voucher. The refund process could not have been easier. I expect it will take a while (they estimate 20 days due to demand) but fair play to them in how they handled it so far.

I had the same with Ryanair as well, was due to fly on Paddy's Day, gave them a ring and they confirmed I would receive a refund.

Yet to actually see it in my account though!

k123456

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Then they wouldn’t have had the money to pay you to begin with.

I received a voucher from Aer Lingus for a cancelled trip to Germany. I actually want Aer Lingus to survive and not go bust, because airline monopolies will hurt me more in the long run.[/QUOTE]

I would agree, I dont want airlines to go bust
However , while the AL offer of a voucher at 110% of its value is generous, I would be concerned that if AL goes bust my voucher would be worthless

I am fairly sure , if an organisation goes bust , the customers are usually the last to get paid


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-response-air-passengers-could-lose-refund-right-under-government-plans-1.4221974

Meglamonia

Had a flight booked with American Airlines where I had a connection in Charlotte. They announced last week they are suspending their Dublin to Charlotte route for the summer which gave me a great chance to request a refund because I was not going to risk travelling anyway but now they're trying to hold onto the money.

How can I make the rest of my flights and return flight If they cant get me on my first flight from Dublin to Charlotte as they have now suspended the route meaning the flight was cancelled while I was still booked on it.

Does a charge back work for a Visa debit card?

Shn99

Had flights booked with ryanair for the 22nd of April, were cancelled and refund process was v easy. Trying to deal with AL on the other hand is a nightmare, v disappointed in how theyve handled it.

Sheep Shagger

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

Send them an email making reference to the call, print the email and use that as evidence you have tried to resolve the matter with the merchant.

AFAIK you'll only get a charge back after the flight was due to take off and they don't refund you within a reasonable amount of time of that. Or if they cancel well before the flight if they dont refund you promptly after cancelling said flight.

Would not claim on travel insurance unless you have to - you may have to pay an excess and declare a claim on any future travel insurance policy purchases.

Guffy

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Would not claim on travel insurance unless you have to - you may have to pay an excess and declare a claim on any future travel insurance policy purchases.

This wouldn't impact any future claims. If you are entitled to claim submit a claim. The only time it may be an issue is if there was a pattern of claims to display.

Excess would depend on the level of cover you purchased and would come off the top. If you have a policy with an excess of 75 and claim for 100 which is successful, the remainder is still paid out.

Neither are good reasons not to submit a valid claim.


Edit: wait sorry think i may have misread. Making a claim does not effect your travel insurance premiums. Each policy is independent from the last or the next.

Sheep Shagger

Guffy wrote: »

This wouldn't impact any future claims. If you are entitled to claim submit a claim. The only time it may be an issue is if there was a pattern of claims to display.

Excess would depend on the level of cover you purchased and would come off the top. If you have a policy with an excess of 75 and claim for 100 which is successful, the remainder is still paid out.

Neither are good reasons not to submit a valid claim.


Edit: wait sorry think i may have misread. Making a claim does not effect your travel insurance premiums. Each policy is independent from the last or the next.

Why pay an excess when a charge back doesn't have any and in personal experience, chargebacks are faster than travel insurance claims.

JimmyVik

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

You can record anything you like. You dont have to tell anyone you are recording.

jface187

I was due to fly to Amsterdam last week with Aer Lingus via a package with Expedia. Our hotel was closed due to CV-19 so we got a refund with Expedia for the hotel, we were contacted by Aer Lingus via e-mail that we could get the refund voucher for the flights.
We took it. We went to the website via the link in the e-mail put all the details in and said we got the voucher and be in touch soon.

Yesterday I got an e-mail for AL saying we were not entitled to the voucher. Our flight was last Monday, so I week after our flight takes off, they send this e-mail.

I contacted them via FB/Twitter to be told it's in there terms and conditions that because we booked via Expedia we were not allowed to get the refund voucher.

I told them it was them who told me I was allowed to and that they took my details and said it was ok. They won't accept any blame.

I got on the phone and the guy I spoke too, said I'm due a full refund, because my flight time was moved by more then two hours. (They were sending e-mails almost every day, with my flights times changed.)

He said it might take three weeks for the claim to go through. I not holding my breath, there clearly trying to screw the customers anyway they can.

My holiday to Greece in May with Jet2 has been cancelled. They are pushing for people to rebook which I have no issue with but my query is about my travel insurance.

I have had a yearly policy with TheAA for a few years and it renews in August.
I booked my holiday in early January so as it stands, I’m covered for Covid19 issues.
TheAA state that any policies or bookings made after 16 March WILL NOT cover Covid19 related issue.

If I rebook with Jet2 will this be classed as a new booking?
When my policy renews in August will the Covid19 issues be in the restrictions?

I would be thinking of rebooking for September at the earliest and probably a lot later. If Jet2 go under, I’m wondering if I’ll be covered. I emailed TheAA and they auto replied saying look at FAQ but I couldn’t see anything.

JimmyVik

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

My holiday to Greece in May with Jet2 has been cancelled. They are pushing for people to rebook which I have no issue with but my query is about my travel insurance.

I have had a yearly policy with TheAA for a few years and it renews in August.
I booked my holiday in early January so as it stands, I’m covered for Covid19 issues.
TheAA state that any policies or bookings made after 16 March WILL NOT cover Covid19 related issue.

If I rebook with Jet2 will this be classed as a new booking?
When my policy renews in August will the Covid19 issues be in the restrictions?

I would be thinking of rebooking for September at the earliest and probably a lot later. If Jet2 go under, I’m wondering if I’ll be covered. I emailed TheAA and they auto replied saying look at FAQ but I couldn’t see anything.

I think that a rebooking is treated as a new booking.
Get your money back. Keep the cash and use it to rebook later if you want to.
But leaving the cash with the travel agencies is asking for it to disappear if they go under.

Blanchy90

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

JimmyVik

Blanchy90 wrote: »

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

Cant wait to see Ryanairs fuedal terms if the issue vouchers instead of refunds.

johnire

Im in the exact same position with KLM. I’ve initiated a chargeback with my credit card company so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

Blanchy90 wrote: »

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

Blanchy90

johnire wrote: »

Im in the exact same position with KLM. I’ve initiated a chargeback with my credit card company so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

I replied saying I don't accept the voucher and want a refund.

I've also sent an email in to the European Union to try get a definitive answer on what we're entitled to

JimmyVik

Im trying to get on to my credit card issuer to ask about chargeback in the case where the airline wont refund cash. I'll post here if I get an answer

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think that a rebooking is treated as a new booking.
Get your money back. Keep the cash and use it to rebook later if you want to.
But leaving the cash with the travel agencies is asking for it to disappear if they go under.

Still no response from TheAA. I’ll give it some time but I’ll probably go for refund. Also cancel travel insurance as it’s of no use right now.

FishOnABike

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

It is perfectly legal to record a call to which you are a participant. While it might be considered polite to inform other participants the call is being recorded, there is no requirement to do so.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im trying to get on to my credit card issuer to ask about chargeback in the case where the airline wont refund cash. I'll post here if I get an answer

Right so eventually I got talking to someone in the CC company.
They said if I paid for the flights on the understanding that I would fly then the airline didnt deliver their end of the transaction, no matter what the reason, they cannot keep the money I paid. They cannot substitute the money I paid for other goods, eg vouchers either.


She said dont accept anything but a refund on my card if thats what I want.
When the date pf the flights passes I am to initiate a charge back on my card and they will take care of the rest. If I dont get the flights the money will go back onto my card basically.


I asked her did that apply to the issuer of my other card and she said I have to ring them and as, that she could not comment for them. So ring your own issuer and check.

Blanchy90

JimmyVik wrote: »

Right so eventually I got talking to someone in the CC company.
They said if I paid for the flights on the understanding that I would fly then the airline didnt deliver their end of the transaction, no matter what the reason, they cannot keep the money I paid. They cannot substitute the money I paid for other goods, eg vouchers either.


She said dont accept anything but a refund on my card if thats what I want.
When the date pf the flights passes I am to initiate a charge back on my card and they will take care of the rest. If I dont get the flights the money will go back onto my card basically.


I asked her did that apply to the issuer of my other card and she said I have to ring them and as, that she could not comment for them. So ring your own issuer and check.

Thats great news, what bank is that?

JimmyVik

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Thats great news, what bank is that?

That was avantcard.
Now bear in mind thats only a call center answer but it makes sense to me.



In summary


Paid for flight.

Didnt get flight.

Money back.

I didnt buy a voucher when i bought a flight.

Voucher is not money.

witnessmenow

I have two flights in the next couple of weeks.

• Ryanair next week: They cancelled a few weeks ago and I applied for a refund. Not received yet, but It's only 12 days ago. I paid with Paypal, which I hope doesn't complicate things!
• Air France next month: No contact from them yet anyways. Logged in there and the flight seems to be still on. (as if)

I understand both sides of the argument in terms of refund vs voucher, but obviously I would prefer a refund. A couple of things annoy me about the voucher situation though

• It's some Darth Vader move how they can just alter the deal when it suits them, there is a law and they are breaking it. I couldn't change my end of the deal like this in different circumstances.
• A 1 year voucher... seems really stingy when it's not clear when air travel will be a thing again. And as has been pointed out, prices will increase when flights do resume, so vouchers are worth less. It should be at least as good of terms as if we bought a voucher at the time (minimum 5 years)
• The fact that it's a voucher for the most impacted of industries (although for me personally I think its unlikely that Air France will go under). If they hit the wall, vouchers holders will get nothing.
• What happens if your airline pulls out of Ireland? (again probably unlikely for Air France)

Blanchy90

At least with Air France if the flight is cancelled the voucher is for 1 year and then you can get a refund if you didn't use it. Its not ideal but its better than nothing. I'll still be fighting for a refund now though.

zac8

JimmyVik wrote: »

Cant wait to see Ryanairs fuedal terms if the issue vouchers instead of refunds.

Ryanair are one of the few airlines offering refunds and have made it very easy to apply. So, credit were its due.

JimmyVik

zac8 wrote: »

Ryanair are one of the few airlines offering refunds and have made it very easy to apply. So, credit were its due.

Im waiting 25 days for my refund from Ryanair. Anyone seen any money from Ryanair yet? How long did it take?

Technocentral

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im waiting 25 days for my refund from Ryanair. Anyone seen any money from Ryanair yet? How long did it take?

Waiting 19 days so far.

grimm2005

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im waiting 25 days for my refund from Ryanair. Anyone seen any money from Ryanair yet? How long did it take?

I put my request in on the 24th March and I've had two updates from them by email since. I haven't been chasing them as I'm not expecting anything back from them until May at least but it's good to get updates anyway, this is what they've sent me and I'm happy enough to wait it out:

As previously advised, our Customer Services Team are experiencing an unprecedented high volume of requests due to the COVID-19 crisis and we are prioritising our most vulnerable customers. This has been compounded by government public health restrictions on non-essential work travel which means we have less staff available to us during this busy time. Please rest assured your refund request is currently in the queue and will be processed.

maestroamado

Blanchy90 wrote: »

At least with Air France if the flight is cancelled the voucher is for 1 year and then you can get a refund if you didn't use it. Its not ideal but its better than nothing. I'll still be fighting for a refund now though.

I have an Air France voucher, i am thinking i do not have the option to change to cash? I asked for voucher at the time.

Blanchy90

maestroamado wrote: »

I have an Air France voucher, i am thinking i do not have the option to change to cash? I asked for voucher at the time.

From Air Frances website

Is the travel voucher refundable?

If your original flight has been canceled, your travel voucher is refundable if it is not used within 1 year from the date of issue.

If your original flight was not canceled but you decided not to travel, your travel voucher is only refundable according to your original ticket’s fare conditions.

Error report

By law, aerlingus MUST offer you a refund but they are not. In fact, I was in the same situation and the only options were to either reschedule, or get a voucher + 10%. While I clicked on the voucher option, thinking that otherwise, I would lose out altogether, you have to select the checkbox to indicate that you are happy to receive a voucher in lieu of a refund - but there is no option not to, or to opt for a refund!
This made me absolutely mad at Aer Lingus because Ryanair offered me a straight refund two weeks ago, no quibble.
I spent 2 hours searching for the option to get a refund because getting a voucher doesn't suit me until I found it:

This app won't allow me to post a link - you can google "aer lingus disrupted flight refund form" to get to it.

We can only speculate why Aer Lingus don't offer a refund and make it so difficult to find the refund requst. My personal guess is a combination of the following:
1. Cash Flow - cash is better in the company's bank account than the customer's account. The company can reduce its third-party borrowing and its interest costs. I note that the company's accounts for 2018 show interest costs of €9,199,000.
2. It is generally believed that oil prices will remain low for the foreseeable future. So even though the company will give you a 10% extra, it may benefit from much decreased fuel price. I note that oil, fuel, landing and emission charges represent 18.9% of its income, per the 2018 Accounts which are publicly available. It will depend if they forward bought fuel and at what price.
3. We can only speculate but if the company increased their prices by, say, 15% on average, then there would be a 5% windfall to the company, the converse of which is - you would be losing out.

You must consider what is best in your situation. Remember that if you hold a voucher, you are an unsecured creditor and as such, you most likely don't get your money back in the event of a liquidation.

I ponder a question, is a short term gain more valuable than outraged customers?

pablo57

Error report wrote: »

By law, aerlingus MUST offer you a refund but they are not. In fact, I was in the same situation and the only options were to either reschedule, or get a voucher + 10%. While I clicked on the voucher option, thinking that otherwise, I would lose out altogether, you have to select the checkbox to indicate that you are happy to receive a voucher in lieu of a refund - but there is no option not to, or to opt for a refund!
This made me absolutely mad at Aer Lingus because Ryanair offered me a straight refund two weeks ago, no quibble.
I spent 2 hours searching for the option to get a refund because getting a voucher doesn't suit me until I found it

Two hours? :eek: If you click on the link at the top of their home page it brings you to https://www.aerlingus.com/support/flight-disruption-information/

Scroll down to the FAQs and if your flight is cancelled there's the option to fill in that refund form.

I'm not saying they're making it easy, but it is there within two clicks of the homepage.

Chivito550

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Why pay an excess when a charge back doesn't have any and in personal experience, chargebacks are faster than travel insurance claims.

I rang AIB today about a chargeback. I have to print off every bit of documentation I consider relevant, draft a letter and post it off. I have access to a very dodgey printer so it's a bit more of a hassle. With VHI Multitrip I can do it all online. I payed an extra 10 euro add on alongside my premium, so I don't have to pay any excess on my claim.

Really don't know which route to go down. AIB lad on the phone said he really has no clue how long a disputed claim will take to be looked at and resolved.

Sheep Shagger

Chivito550 wrote: »

I rang AIB today about a chargeback. I have to print off every bit of documentation I consider relevant, draft a letter and post it off. I have access to a very dodgey printer so it's a bit more of a hassle. With VHI Multitrip I can do it all online. I payed an extra 10 euro add on alongside my premium, so I don't have to pay any excess on my claim.

Really don't know which route to go down. AIB lad on the phone said he really has no clue how long a disputed claim will take to be looked at and resolved.

Would say both avenues will be inundated with claims, i could be wrong but I think insurers may want people to try the chargeback route first.

Chivito550

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Would say both avenues will be inundated with claims, i could be wrong but I think insurers may want people to try the chargeback route first.

Is there any time limit for insurance claims?

My policy was last paid in July 2019 so it runs up to July 2020.

My flight to Manila was supposed to be today.

Also, on a separate issue, I'm booked to fly to Tokyo later in the year for the Olympics, to work as a freelancer, which now are not going ahead til 2021. There's a good chance my BA flight could still go ahead though. What's my options in this situation? Is voucher the best thing I can hope for?

What a year to have 2 trips booked to the Far East.

overkill602

I paid 1800 for an emirates flight that changed my stop-over 2 to 32 hours, airline was not contactable by phone so i had to book another flight with etihad, applied for refund they sent an acknowledgment email for a refund or voucher nearly 3 weeks nothing.