Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

doc22

jammiedodgers wrote: »

This was touched on earlier in the thread but wondering can someone go into a bit more detail regarding how this will be taxed at y/e.

For eg. currently an employee could be taking home €580 (€410 subsidy + €170 topup). Most staff are now on a Week 1 basis so won't be paying any tax in real time. Before the pandemic this employee would have been on €680 with deductions bringing it to €580 nett.

So at year end this employee will be taxed on what should already be their Nett figure if I'm reading it right? Is this an issue that needs to be sorted between employer and employee?

Perhaps more so between the employee and revenue

je551e

snowgal wrote: »

another question here please.
Like everyone, our employees were receiving tax/usc refunds during the the past few months until Revenue changed to week 1. Obviously these were passed on to employees each week. But I think Revenue have then adjusted our p30 returns in April and May to include these refunds (i.e they have taken back that amount). Now finding it hard to reconcile the p30s each month as theyre higher than what we submitted??
Also, when we receive our twss refund from Revenue would that include this tax/usc amount?
Thanks

Hi Snowgal,
A breakdown of exactly what they paid is up on ROS , have you seen this? They pay you the wages subsidy plus tax refunds in the payment . So as you have received the tax refunds already you need to allow this back on to your p30 figure.

Hope this helps some bit.

youandme13

I started back work on Monday 29th and got my pay slip today, paid fortnightly. It still says wage subsidy and small top up same as I was getting while we are closed however I've now worked two full weeks for this pay for the same amount is this correct still? Its 45hrs a week for 9euro a hour is what my pay slip is working out at. Just want some info before going to payroll about it.. Thanks

Pistachio19

youandme13 wrote: »

I started back work on Monday 29th and got my pay slip today, paid fortnightly. It still says wage subsidy and small top up same as I was getting while we are closed however I've now worked two full weeks for this pay for the same amount is this correct still? Its 45hrs a week for 9euro a hour is what my pay slip is saying. Thanks

Yes you can still be on the subsidy scheme while working. Chances are many employers turnover will take a while to build to 75% of pre covid figures so they will still be entitled to avail of the scheme.

youandme13

Pistachio19 wrote: »

Yes you can still be on the subsidy scheme while working. Chances are many employers turnover will take a while to build to 75% of pre covid figures so they will still be entitled to avail of the scheme.

But I'm getting over 150 euro fortnightly less than I was pre covid for working the same hours, how is that fair on me?

I'm getting 9.15 euro per hour rather than the 12 euro I was originally and that's on my contract..

ilovespudss

youandme13 wrote: »

But I'm getting over 150 euro fortnightly less than I was pre covid for working the same hours, how is that fair on me?

I'm getting 9.15 euro per hour rather than the 12 euro I was originally and that's on my contract..

I'm not sure of the legalities surrounding your hourly wage and nobody likes having a pay cut, it's a crappy situation.

You say your pay hasn't changed since you returned to work at the end of June. We're you off work, on the subsidy payment, since the lockdown started in April?

Tow

As discussed before in the thread:
1) It is illegal to pay less than your contracted rate, without your permission.
2) It is illegal to pay below minimum wage.

PickYourName

youandme13 wrote: »

But I'm getting over 150 euro fortnightly less than I was pre covid for working the same hours, how is that fair on me?

I'm getting 9.15 euro per hour rather than the 12 euro I was originally and that's on my contract..

It's not fair to you, though it should be noted what's happened isn't fair to employers either.

Did you agree to the pay cut?

If not (or even if you did), you should read:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/being_asked_to_reduce_your_hours_of_work.html

Also:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_during_covid19_restrictions.html

SAMTALK

We finished on Subsidy scheme 2 weeks ago and back to normal now. Our pay slip show us as being on Week 1 both weeks. Were told we would be on week 1 until the end of the year when our tax would be sorted as we had used all our tax credits.

Is this correct ?

Seve OB

SAMTALK wrote: »

We finished on Subsidy scheme 2 weeks ago and back to normal now. Our pay slip show us as being on Week 1 both weeks. Were told we would be on week 1 until the end of the year when our tax would be sorted as we had used all our tax credits.

Is this correct ?

Some people will have. Others won’t have. It’s different for everyone.
You can ring the revenue and request to go back on cumulative

Renjit

Wage subsidy scheme likely to be extended.

SAMTALK

Seve OB wrote: »

Some people will have. Others won’t have. It’s different for everyone.
You can ring the revenue and request to go back on cumulative

Sorry Seve. What would that mean tax wise for me

Seve OB

SAMTALK wrote: »

Sorry Seve. What would that mean tax wise for me

It means everyone’s tax is different

shatners bassoon

Am I correct in saying that it's impossible for an employee to receive their full gross salary (assuming their hours haven't been reduced) if the employer is availing of the subsidy and that if the same net pay is being received, it's as a result of reduced tax being paid in real time / PAYE refunds?

blackwhite

shatners bassoon wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that it's impossible for an employee to receive their full gross salary (assuming their hours haven't been reduced) if the employer is availing of the subsidy and that if the same net pay is being received, it's as a result of reduced tax being paid in real time / PAYE refunds?

Almost.

There's a few scenarios (for the lowest paid employees only really) where their ARNWP is less than €350, then they can be paid a total of €350 per week, which could end up being equal to, or in some very rare cases, higher than their normal gross.

tina1040

Question about annual leave while on TWSS.

Employees on TWSS since it started.70%/85% only unless full time hours worked which was only in the last couple of weeks.
Business closed April and May so by my understanding annual leave 20 days would be reduced to about 16.5 do 2020.

According to the 1365 hours rule, it looks like full time employees will be entitled to 20 days as they will have worked over 1365 by the end of 2020. Haw can that be correct? It wouldn't make sense that an employee say on unpaid leave for 2 months would still have 20 days because they worked over 1365 in the year.

maj206

so my work place is getting pretty much back to normal albeit with a lot of new protocols in place etc .
i have been getting the wage subsidy since march as i was a full time (5 days ) member of staff and i did work one day a week during lockdown when business was very quiet but never got paid anything only the 350 subsidy. i am now back 3 full days (not getting wage topped up) and 2 of my part time colleagues who were getting x and o's payment have been asked to switch to the wage subsidy. they are now getting more hours/days than me? i know this is because i am paid more than them daily and they are cutting my hours and giving them more! what are peoples opinions/advice

booooonzo

on scheme since April
all staff full time hours from home
20% paycut company wide
Company said they will top up the scheme payments to our new lower net.

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Company has also re-hired 3 or 4 staff since April and have given pay rises to other departments (these were agreed in Jan based of certain goals but our departments reviews were delayed and then cancelled due to covid)

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but
1. how can an employee know this exact amount if it will be taken as credits via revenue?
2. Will the amount the company give us to pay our tax bill also be taxable? if so by how much?
3. What if an employee decides to leave before the year end?


Thanks

Seve OB

booooonzo wrote: »

on scheme since April
all staff full time hours from home
20% paycut company wide
Company said they will top up the scheme payments to our new lower net.

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Company has also re-hired 3 or 4 staff since April and have given pay rises to other departments (these were agreed in Jan based of certain goals but our departments reviews were delayed and then cancelled due to covid)

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but
1. how can an employee know this exact amount if it will be taken as credits via revenue?
2. Will the amount the company give us to pay our tax bill also be taxable? if so by how much?
3. What if an employee decides to leave before the year end?


Thanks

Firstly PAYE refund does not form part of any employer top up. It has nothing to do with your employer.

To answer your questions.
1. Easiest thing, ask revenue if you are unsure as to how to calculate it. Alternatively your employer might be able to calculate it for you.
2.everything you get paid from your employer is taxable.
3. Tax will be collected by the revenue by reducing your credits for next year (I think). If your existing employer has said they will pay it for you, make sure you get that payment before you leave.

PickYourName

booooonzo wrote: »

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Absolutely not. PAYE refund is nothing to do with your employer.

booooonzo wrote: »

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but

That's off the wall. Company can certainly pay you an additional amount to cover it, but that in itself would be taxable.

To me, it sounds like your employer is playing fast and loose with tax obligations.

youandme13

So my payroll had said my average net earnings for Jan and feb are 360 euro per week (yet I earned 11.80 per hr 40 hrs a week, I was out sick for 1 week yet didn't get paid for sick leave so was down money then, would this have brought it down in general for the average? I'm being paid 360 euro per week now even though I'm back working 40 hours so I'm getting 9.15 per hour? Surely this cant be right when minimum wage is 10.10? Need advice before I go back to them so I have all info thanks

PickYourName

youandme13 wrote: »

So my payroll had said my average net earnings for Jan and feb are 360 euro per week (yet I earned 11.80 per hr 40 hrs a week, I was out sick for 1 week yet didn't get paid for sick leave so was down money then, would this have brought it down in general for the average? I'm being paid 360 euro per week now even though I'm back working 40 hours so I'm getting 9.15 per hour? Surely this cant be right when minimum wage is 10.10? Need advice before I go back to them so I have all info thanks

The average is worked out (by Revenue) as averaged over the weeks you were actually paid. If you worked all weeks up until the end of February, it would be averaged over 9 weeks; if you missed one it would be over 8 weeks. Are you sure the €360 figure refers to your average, as this seems too low, even if the number of weeks used for the calculation was wrong? Note that the subsidy (for some) is paid at a rate of 70% of the average, so maybe that is what you are referring to?

What does your current payslip show? It should break down the amount paid from the subsidy plus any top-up amount.

It is illegal to pay anyone less than the minimum wage.

booooonzo

Seve OB wrote: »

Firstly PAYE refund does not form part of any employer top up. It has nothing to do with your employer.

To answer your questions.
1. Easiest thing, ask revenue if you are unsure as to how to calculate it. Alternatively your employer might be able to calculate it for you.
2.everything you get paid from your employer is taxable.
3. Tax will be collected by the revenue by reducing your credits for next year (I think). If your existing employer has said they will pay it for you, make sure you get that payment before you leave.

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

Pistachio19

booooonzo wrote: »

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

They are wrong. The refund of tax is not seen as part of your pay. It's a refund of your own tax so they cannot effectively keep it from you. One of our employees ended up with more per month than he had in Jan/Feb due to tax refunds. The other only ended up paying tax in the 3rd month of the scheme due to his refunds. From this month everyone should be on a week/month 1 basis as per revenue rules so this will put a stop to the refunds from revenue.

PickYourName

booooonzo wrote: »

They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

It's not true at all, never mind "not fully true"! Tax refunds are nothing to do with your empployer and should not be used in calculating pay.

booooonzo wrote: »

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

Of course it's too messy! There's a good chance everyone has different refunds due to their circumstances. See previous comment: they should not be using this to calculate anything - being too messy is just another reason not to use it.

booooonzo wrote: »

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

This is likely to be a nightmare to sort out - more for them than for you. They seem to have started down a path of trying to fix people's net pay, which is a very bad idea.

booooonzo wrote: »

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

I'd be amazed if you do.

Seve OB

booooonzo wrote: »

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

To put is simple.
They either haven’t a clue what they are doing
Or are absolute chancers.

Or possibly didn’t really understand, then figured out their mistake and are trying to bluff.

In simple terms, I would just go back to them, let them know politely that the paye refund has no effect on any net pay, as the only net pay which counts towards any calculations was the average of the first 9 weeks of the year.

I’d also Ask them to please fix their mistake however necessary.

SAMTALK

Seve OB wrote: »

To put is simple.
They either haven’t a clue what they are doing
Or are absolute chancers.

Or possibly didn’t really understand, then figured out their mistake and are trying to bluff.

In simple terms, I would just go back to them, let them know politely that the paye refund has no effect on any net pay, as the only net pay which counts towards any calculations was the average of the first 9 weeks of the year.

I’d also Ask them to please fix their mistake however necessary.

We had much the same issue. Got tax refund and it brought pay up to near usual net pay. Brought this to their attention and they said sure you're nett is the same as usual !!

Stood our ground with them and said we work on gross pay as per agreement of employment. Eventually the agreed to give us the balance after the scheme finished for us.

Abusing the system to avail of the scheme which is totally unfair

snowgal

I have a strange one that I cant seem to find an answer on. Or maybe its just straight forward enough! Colleague of mine is working with us on 25 hours per week at the min. She is getting twss since March. Shes just told me shes accepted another part time job that will work out about 8 hours per week (and will keep her job here too), Does anyone see an issue with this in regard to TWSS or is it just a different job, no change from our side. She hasnt told our company officially she has got this new job and whether thats a contract issue Im not sure.....

Seve OB

snowgal wrote: »

I have a strange one that I cant seem to find an answer on. Or maybe its just straight forward enough! Colleague of mine is working with us on 25 hours per week at the min. She is getting twss since March. Shes just told me shes accepted another part time job that will work out about 8 hours per week (and will keep her job here too), Does anyone see an issue with this in regard to TWSS or is it just a different job, no change from our side. She hasnt told our company officially she has got this new job and whether thats a contract issue Im not sure.....

Had something similar.
They got paid a wage in the other job. They wouldn’t qualify there for the twss anyway.
So no impact on us or you, just keep them on the twss.

collsoft

No harm in downloading your TWSS CSV file every week before you run the wages anyway.

If the employee does qualify for a subsidy in the other employment then it would reduce the subsidy available in your current part time employment.

We don't have any information just now, but the indications are that one of the things being looked at in the "July Stimulus" due to be announced next week is around newly hired employees who did not work with you in Jan/Feb.

If this does happen then it might be that the employee might qualify for a subsidy in the second employment even though they didnt work there in Feb.

So I would be covering myself and download the TWSS CSV file before every pay run just in case!

Seve OB wrote: »

Had something similar.
They got paid a wage in the other job. They wouldn’t qualify there for the twss anyway.
So no impact on us or you, just keep them on the twss.