Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

Tow

scamalert wrote: »

so to be clear you think its nothing wrong with way factory employ's this scheme

Paying less minimum wage and/or the hourly contracted rate is wrong. Do they have a union?

Heres Johnny

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I haven’t followed this thread but yesterday it was brought to my attention my accountant firm well established is claiming it . They have worked full time through covit business has not been affected one bit !
I have since enquired 2 more friends that run good businesses both claiming the 85% of there wages yet both are up running as strong as ever and have actually increased work since restrictions were lifted ! One is claiming 55k a week towards wages !
Another told me have the country is on it and it’s being extended into next year is this right ?

I’m totally disgusted how dishonest these people are no morals of any description one is actually gone off buying new car .

Don't believe this post for a second but the only way you can claim 85% of wages is if you were on less than 412 euro a week prior to the scheme. Doubt they're running good businesses and on minimum wage
You don't know how your accountants firm was impacted either.

capefear

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I haven’t followed this thread but yesterday it was brought to my attention my accountant firm well established is claiming it . They have worked full time through covit business has not been affected one bit !
I have since enquired 2 more friends that run good businesses both claiming the 85% of there wages yet both are up running as strong as ever and have actually increased work since restrictions were lifted ! One is claiming 55k a week towards wages !
Another told me have the country is on it and it’s being extended into next year is this right ?

I’m totally disgusted how dishonest these people are no morals of any description one is actually gone off buying new car .

It hasnt been confirmed yet but there is talk its been extended into 2021.

I know of the larger mid tier accounting firm that have been working flat out through covid 19 and are busier then they would be in september to november and they have their staff on it. Its been abused big time.

Millionaire only not

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Don't believe this post for a second but the only way you can claim 85% of wages is if you were on less than 412 euro a week prior to the scheme. Doubt they're running good businesses and on minimum wage
You don't know how your accountants firm was impacted either.

I suppose there good businesses for the owners as ur telling me there not paying very good wages and getting away with it !
And the same accountant has told one of the said companies they have to stay on it or they’ll mess up the entire claim from this scheme ?

PickYourName

scamalert wrote: »

well if it wasnt close family i wouldn't care much, as its non essential work, and proper contract was given, but worked hour records are kept with employer and all staff even full time ones are on same reduced wages doing full hours that simply doesn't seem right, since there was no mention about pay being paid as subsidy, and 1st week is withheld until season finishes thus a bit late notice, in whats been cooked up regarding this new scheme.

Not only isn't it right, it is illegal to pay someone less than the minimum wage.

If there's no union, the person concerned should take it up in the first instance with the employer. If they don't rectify matters - including paying any back pay due - they should take a case to the WRC. Trust me: they'll put manners on the employer, though I would imagine they're quite busy these days.

Seve OB

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I haven’t followed this thread but yesterday it was brought to my attention my accountant firm well established is claiming it . They have worked full time through covit business has not been affected one bit !
I have since enquired 2 more friends that run good businesses both claiming the 85% of there wages yet both are up running as strong as ever and have actually increased work since restrictions were lifted ! One is claiming 55k a week towards wages !
Another told me have the country is on it and it’s being extended into next year is this right ?

I’m totally disgusted how dishonest these people are no morals of any description one is actually gone off buying new car .

You must be the accountant for all these companies that you seem to know they are abusing the scheme.

He said she said so it all must be true! :rolleyes:

PickYourName

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Another told me have the country is on it and it’s being extended into next year is this right ?

Presume you meant to say "half the country"?

Actually, about 68,000 employers, which is a big number for sure, but still a long way off half the total of about 250,000 or so businesses.

Millionaire only not

Seve OB wrote: »

You must be the accountant for all these companies that you seem to know they are abusing the scheme.

He said she said so it all must be true! :rolleyes:

I ain’t because he’ll get piece of my mind when I meet him next day , tramps .
That’s why I won’t get a state pension until I’m 70.

Seve OB

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I ain’t because he’ll get piece of my mind when I meet him next day , tramps .
That’s why I won’t get a state pension until I’m 70.

Oh right so :rolleyes:

scamalert

PickYourName wrote: »

Not only isn't it right, it is illegal to pay someone less than the minimum wage.

If there's no union, the person concerned should take it up in the first instance with the employer. If they don't rectify matters - including paying any back pay due - they should take a case to the WRC. Trust me: they'll put manners on the employer, though I would imagine they're quite busy these days.

no union, season ends usually early March and picks up mid August again, issue lies that person was let go due to end of season not covid related matters, and no one is keep't on books afterwards, each new employment starts from scratch when season picks up again.


from what i gathered some days hours were reduced and even not tracked when worker would start finish.


contract outlined 10.10 wages and 40hrs week, yet 3rd week in its still 10c on 350e.


Simply advised person to work 3 days that result in 30hrs, as no point in raising issues with factory that does it intentionally thus better of if they are let go and taking any action then if need be, as reading all the fluff on this subsidy scheme theres not a slight mention that employers should top of any difference, hours being capped - and any details regarding back pay or taxes flounder on sure wait till end of year simply isnt right. As atm this seems as free labor more then anything open for easy exploits, when fact is large factories manufacturers shouldn't really been allowed to opt in for it, where 100% of wages is covered by the state, as read trough quite few pages here and seen that some were decent enough to provide employees with what way they will be paid, but in this matter clearly contract is being broken due to lax interpretation it was written.

PickYourName

scamalert wrote: »

no union, season ends usually early March and picks up mid August again, issue lies that person was let go due to end of season not covid related matters, and no one is keep't on books afterwards, each new employment starts from scratch when season picks up again.


from what i gathered some days hours were reduced and even not tracked when worker would start finish.


contract outlined 10.10 wages and 40hrs week, yet 3rd week in its still 10c on 350e.


Simply advised person to work 3 days that result in 30hrs, as no point in raising issues with factory that does it intentionally thus better of if they are let go and taking any action then if need be, as reading all the fluff on this subsidy scheme theres not a slight mention that employers should top of any difference, hours being capped - and any details regarding back pay or taxes flounder on sure wait till end of year simply isnt right. As atm this seems as free labor more then anything open for easy exploits, when fact is large factories manufacturers shouldn't really been allowed to opt in for it, where 100% of wages is covered by the state, as read trough quite few pages here and seen that some were decent enough to provide employees with what way they will be paid, but in this matter clearly contract is being broken due to lax interpretation it was written.

Whether or not the employer is entitled to use the scheme isn't that relevant to individual employees. They can if they want report them to Revenue if they think they aren't entitled to - their name will not be shared.

What is very relevant though is what they are being paid. I repeat, it is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage. Any employee in this position should query it with their employer and if they don't pay the correct rate (including back pay for the weeks when they should have), they should then put in a complaint to the WRC.

scamalert

PickYourName wrote: »

Whether or not the employer is entitled to use the scheme isn't that relevant to individual employees. They can if they want report them to Revenue if they think they aren't entitled to - their name will not be shared.

What is very relevant though is what they are being paid. I repeat, it is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage. Any employee in this position should query it with their employer and if they don't pay the correct rate (including back pay for the weeks when they should have), they should then put in a complaint to the WRC.

well if the pay is 350.1 only question is there anything that's not shown on payslip regarding allocating funds for end of year to cover employee in backtax- usc prsi etc, or is that flat goverment payment given is used as a pay, which in return will need to be declared and most likely taxed, putting any employee at massive under pay in regards to sectors where hourly wage is paid and x amount of hours are worked which in most cases are full time or close it.


As cant imagine revenue getting submits where person was paid 350e for 39hrs worked as being legal, that it wouldn't be flagged or shut immediately


as not against scheme for those in hospitality services but seems clear trend from past similar schemes exploited with one eye shut, how poorly its setup.

kennethsmyth

capefear wrote: »

It hasnt been confirmed yet but there is talk its been extended into 2021.

I know of the larger mid tier accounting firm that have been working flat out through covid 19 and are busier then they would be in september to november and they have their staff on it. Its been abused big time.

If the twss is being extended the government needs to revist it then and make it that the 350 is already considered taxed. Its totally unfair for employees to be incurring additional tax on income that is not a real net figure and this under the guise of the employer needs to claim twss. I have no issue with claiming the twss but the revenue has essentially made it that an employee cannot be paid their contracted wage (fully taxed) and still be eligible for twss as an employee - they are directly encouraging employers to not pay employees their correct wage.

RandomViewer

kennethsmyth wrote: »

If the twss is being extended the government needs to revist it then and make it that the 350 is already considered taxed. Its totally unfair for employees to be incurring additional tax on income that is not a real net figure and this under the guise of the employer needs to claim twss. I have no issue with claiming the twss but the revenue has essentially made it that an employee cannot be paid their contracted wage (fully taxed) and still be eligible for twss as an employee - they are directly encouraging employers to not pay employees their correct wage.

I'm getting my correct wage but because the subsidy is part of it I'm not paying any tax, looks like there won't be any tax free allowances next year,

wazzer1

Hi all, can anyone tell me how to find my monthly figure on 100% with the twss? Thanks

worlds goodest teecher

Re WSS. There was a challenge made a few months back in relation to who was entitled to receive the payment. What was the outcome of this challenge? I could have retained my part time job if I was receiving WSS. However I am on Partial Capacity Benefit due to a disability and therefore my employer could not keep me on. Has this changed?

PickYourName

scamalert wrote: »

As cant imagine revenue getting submits where person was paid 350e for 39hrs worked as being legal, that it wouldn't be flagged or shut immediately

Revenue submissions do not include the number of hours worked, so they would have no idea pay was below minimum wage.

je551e

I know the scheme was extended but was it revised to include seasonal workers that were off in January/ February?

snowgal

je551e wrote: »

I know the scheme was extended but was it revised to include seasonal workers that were off in January/ February?

Yes and to all new employees from now on

Kaylami

Hoping some can give an insight because my head just can't work this out.

Back at work full time on wage subsidary scheme but my take home pay never mind my gross is down nearly €200 for 2 weeks.

My employer said the scheme is to protect my nett wages not the gross but if this is the case I still have to pay tax on the new nett at a later day.

Can someone please explain to me can they effectively cut my pay with no conversation about it or am I reading it wrong?

jammiedodgers

A new Employment Wage Support Scheme will succeed the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme, and run until April 2021.

Employers whose turnover has fallen 30% will receive a flat-rate subsidy of up to €203 per week per employee, including for seasonal staff and new employees. New firms operating in impacted sectors will also be eligible.

The Scheme is expected to support around 350,000 jobs into the beginning of 2021.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7e4dd-backing-irelands-businesses-supporting-and-creating-jobs/

PickYourName

Kaylami wrote: »

Hoping some can give an insight because my head just can't work this out.

Back at work full time on wage subsidary scheme but my take home pay never mind my gross is down nearly €200 for 2 weeks.

My employer said the scheme is to protect my nett wages not the gross but if this is the case I still have to pay tax on the new nett at a later day.

Can someone please explain to me can they effectively cut my pay with no conversation about it or am I reading it wrong?

Sounds like they have indeed cut your wages without your agreement.

Dempo1

Does anyone understand the new EWSS, I'm reading it that the TWSS will change to a wage support rather than subsidy. Instead of percentage support of payroll to employers, employers will instead get €203 per employee, per week. I also see a clear reduction of 30% in turnover will be required. So from September it will just be a payment of €203 per employee?

I'm returning to work next month and have some mixed experiences of the TWSS.

kennethsmyth

Dempo1 wrote: »

Does anyone understand the new EWSS, I'm reading it that the TWSS will change to a wage support rather than subsidy. Instead of percentage support of payroll to employers, employers will instead get €203 per employee, per week. I also see a clear reduction of 30% in turnover will be required. So from September it will just be a payment of €203 per employee?

I'm returning to work next month and have some mixed experiences of the TWSS.

Lets hope that either the 203 EWSS is direct to employer and not shown as part of employee wages or if it is that its taxed as normal.

eh i dunno

PickYourName wrote: »

Sounds like they have indeed cut your wages without your agreement.

Same happened with me. No discussion about it.

Tow

worlds goodest teecher wrote: »

Re WSS. There was a challenge made a few months back in relation to who was entitled to receive the payment. What was the outcome of this challenge? I could have retained my part time job if I was receiving WSS. However I am on Partial Capacity Benefit due to a disability and therefore my employer could not keep me on. Has this changed?

Your employer appears to be wrong. Section 4.6 covers paying TWSS to employees with Partial Capacity Benefit.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-twss.pdf

Dempo1

eh i dunno wrote: »

Same happened with me. No discussion about it.

Astonishing what seems to be going on, I wonder if the new scheme is a flat rate €203 paid to employers, will this Top up or lack of it now be resolved. It looks like the lack of transparency and confusion re the original TWSS seems to have short changed alot of employees. I spoke to someone yesterday and they get 75% wages, same hours but topped up with all4one vouchers, just bizzare and this has been going on weeks

kennethsmyth

Kaylami wrote: »

Hoping some can give an insight because my head just can't work this out.

Back at work full time on wage subsidary scheme but my take home pay never mind my gross is down nearly €200 for 2 weeks.

My employer said the scheme is to protect my nett wages not the gross but if this is the case I still have to pay tax on the new nett at a later day.

Can someone please explain to me can they effectively cut my pay with no conversation about it or am I reading it wrong?

The scheme is not for the employee, its for the employer. They are wording that slightly close to saying that they cannot top up due to revenue rules. This is not the case. Employer can fully pay correct gross pay but then will not receive a subsidy. It looks like EWSS will address this, however does not fix the issues with TWSS previously with employees going to have additional tax on their normal net by end of year.

collsoft

For anybody that is interested the draft legislation covering EWSS has just been published at

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/19/eng/initiated/b1920d.pdf

Ok, so this is not the final legislation and I have only had a quick read through it and may have made mistakes, but here is some of what I understand about the EWSS

1) Scheme will run from 1st July 2020 to 31st March 2021 - Minister can extend after that.

2) To qualify an employer must have a drop of at least 30% of turnover or orders in the period 1st July 2020 to 31st December 2020 compared to same period in 2019. The minister may specify other percentage reductions

3) It will not be open to proprietary directors, and some connected persons.

4) The subsidy will be determined by employee's Gross Pay. For Pay between €151.50 and €202.99 per week a subsidy of €151.50 per week will be paid. For pay between €203 and €1462 per week the subsidy is €203 per week

5) No subsidy is available for any pay lower than €151.50 or higher than €1462 per week

6) It looks like the subsidy will be paid a month in arrears after the monthly statement has been returned. So for July the payments would be made to the employer after 15th August

7) You cant fire a full-time employee and replace them with two (or more) part time employees to increase your subsidy

8) Employer must perform review at the end of each tax month and exit the scheme if they no longer qualify. There will be a formal exit procedure


It would appear to me that this new subsidy will be a direct payment to the employer and will not appear on the employee's payslip.

It would also seem that J9 is not being used and employees will simply revert to their normal PRSI class under the scheme.

Anyway, take all of the above with a large pinch of salt - I could well have made some mistakes in my reading of it, and there is likely to be more clarification over the next week or so

Dempo1

collsoft wrote: »

For anybody that is interested the draft legislation covering EWSS has just been published at

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/19/eng/initiated/b1920d.pdf

Ok, so this is not the final legislation and I have only had a quick read through it and may have made mistakes, but here is some of what I understand about the EWSS

1) Scheme will run from 1st July 2020 to 31st March 2021 - Minister can extend after that.

2) To qualify an employer must have a drop of at least 30% of turnover or orders in the period 1st July 2020 to 31st December 2020 compared to same period in 2019. The minister may specify other percentage reductions

3) It will not be open to proprietary directors, and some connected persons.

4) The subsidy will be determined by employee's Gross Pay. For Pay between €151.50 and €202.99 per week a subsidy of €151.50 per week will be paid. For pay between €203 and €1462 per week the subsidy is €203 per week

5) No subsidy is available for any pay lower than €151.50 or higher than €1462 per week

6) It looks like the subsidy will be paid a month in arrears after the monthly statement has been returned. So for July the payments would be made to the employer after 15th August

7) You cant fire a full-time employee and replace them with two (or more) part time employees to increase your subsidy

8) Employer must perform review at the end of each tax month and exit the scheme if they no longer qualify. There will be a formal exit procedure


It would appear to me that this new subsidy will be a direct payment to the employer and will not appear on the employee's payslip.

It would also seem that J9 is not being used and employees will simply revert to their normal PRSI class under the scheme.

Anyway, take all of the above with a large pinch of salt - I could well have made some mistakes in my reading of it, and there is likely to be more clarification over the next week or so

Very helpful and appreciated