Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

floydmoon12

Hi guys. I would appreciate anyones help on the following situation.

We were laid off in March and rehired in June.

First week in January business was closed and the second week I was sick(we dont get sick pay)

So I worked 7 weeks in January/February.

January/Feb Average Net Pay they are showing is 1717.52

Went back to work in June and my gross pay was 2117.58

Average Net Pay :1717.52
TWSS : 1202.76
Employer Top-up : 515.26

They say they can't pay me any more. So I am being paid 400 euro less and working the same hours.

My gross hourly rate is 20 euro per hour and I was working 30 hours per week in Jan/Feb and before we came back they said they would pay us three extra hours a week for extra prep(online teacher) so I should be getting paid 33 hours per week.

Would appreciate some insight

PickYourName

floydmoon12 wrote: »

My gross hourly rate is 20 euro per hour and I was working 30 hours per week in Jan/Feb and before we came back they said they would pay us three extra hours a week for extra prep(online teacher) so I should be getting paid 33 hours per week.

Would appreciate some insight

What does your contract say about hours and pay?

Have you agreed to a pay cut?

Kaylami

Back again for more advice.

So my employer is saying that they only have to pay me my previous nett pay under the twss scheme.

Citizens advice have advised that means I only have to work the equivalent hours 33 hours but my employer is insisting on 39 hours.

Can I fight them for this?

PickYourName

Kaylami wrote: »

So my employer is saying that they only have to pay me my previous nett pay under the twss scheme.

I'm not sure I understand what that means, do you? If so, maybe you could explain?

Employers don't control your gross pay, they control your net pay. Your net pay depends on the tax (PAYE/PRSI/USC) you owe or are owed and is dependent on Revenue rules. Though the rules themselves have changed, in terms of the principle nothing has changed in that; it is still the case.

What was your gross salary/wages before TWSS?

What is your gross salary/wages now?

If it is different, have you agreed to that?

Kaylami wrote: »

Citizens advice have advised that means I only have to work the equivalent hours 33 hours but my employer is insisting on 39 hours.

Can I fight them for this?

Is your pay specified as an hourly rate?

It depends on what you mean by "fight". If there has been a change to your gross wages, your employer can only do that with your agreement. It can be difficult not to agree, as you are in a weak position: your choice might be to agree or to loose your job. If you don't agree to a wage cut and they are paying you less than your contract, you can take a case to the WRC.

If your hourly gross rate has dropped below the minimum wage, that is illegal. You can fight that, ask them to re-instate your wages to the correct level (including any back-pay) in the first instance, and if they refuse then take a case to the WRC.

Kaylami

PickYourName wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what that means, do you? If so, maybe you could explain?

Employers don't control your gross pay, they control your net pay. Your net pay depends on the tax (PAYE/PRSI/USC) you owe or are owed and is dependent on Revenue rules. Though the rules themselves have changed, in terms of the principle nothing has changed in that; it is still the case.

What was your gross salary/wages before TWSS?

What is your gross salary/wages now?

If it is different, have you agreed to that?



Is your pay specified as an hourly rate?

It depends on what you mean by "fight". If there has been a change to your gross wages, your employer can only do that with your agreement. It can be difficult not to agree, as you are in a weak position: your choice might be to agree or to loose your job. If you don't agree to a wage cut and they are paying you less than your contract, you can take a case to the WRC.

If your hourly gross rate has dropped below the minimum wage, that is illegal. You can fight that, ask them to re-instate your wages to the correct level (including any back-pay) in the first instance, and if they refuse then take a case to the WRC.

Thanks for the reply.

Previous gross was 1400 for 2 weeks now its 1100 for 2 weeks and that was the average nett take home for Jan and Feb.

Contracted rate is 17 odd an hour and under this new payment its 14 something.

So citizen advice advised to divide the 1100 by 17 and only work those hours.

But my employer says they only have to pay the 1100 and not the previous 1400 and I need to work the 39 hours a week.

PickYourName

Kaylami wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Previous gross was 1400 for 2 weeks now its 1100 for 2 weeks and that was the average nett take home for Jan and Feb.

Contracted rate is 17 odd an hour and under this new payment its 14 something.

So citizen advice advised to divide the 1100 by 17 and only work those hours.

But my employer says they only have to pay the 1100 and not the previous 1400 and I need to work the 39 hours a week.

Your employer is wrong.

Your employer cannot change your gross wages without your agreement.

Apart from anything else, the TWSS part of your wages has no tax deductaed from it; this may be due at some future point (i.e. your real "net" figure is lower).

Citizens advice is good advice in that it's a compromise: you get paid at the same rate, yet if the employer cannot pay that ammount, your hours are reduced. It involves you agreeing to change your terms and conditions in a way that mimimises the impact on both sides.

However, it is a compromise: the basic point is that they cannot change your gross wages (or indeed any other term of your contract) without your agreement.

As I said, it's a dificult position to be in, as they may ultimately offer you the choice of agreeing to the pay cut or loosing your job.

If they won't come to some agreement such as reducing your hours, you can take a case to the WRC.

PickYourName

Kaylami wrote: »

But my employer says they only have to pay the 1100 and not the previous 1400 and I need to work the 39 hours a week.

You should also read the following, if you haven't already done so:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/being_asked_to_reduce_your_hours_of_work.html

Irishdreamer

Hi all!

So my company managed to continue paying the wages without using TWSS so we never actually signed up for the scheme. Now that the date has closed does this also mean that we cannot sign up for the new EWSS? I know they are two different schemes but I haven't read anywhere how a company signs up for EWSS. We are continuing to pay the staff wages as normal but with little money coming in we are running out of funds quickly and we may need to avail of the new scheme soon.

Thanks in advance!

Tow

Irishdreamer wrote: »

Now that the date has closed does this also mean that we cannot sign up for the new EWSS? I know they are two different schemes but I haven't read anywhere how a company signs up for EWSS

No. EWSS is a separate scheme from TWSS. It requires a separate application form to be signed by each employer. This will be digital and available on ROS by mid August. Revenue expect employers to join who did not claim for TWSS. It will be backdated to July for these employers. Employers can not be on both schemes at the same time.

collsoft

Just to add that one of the requirements for an employer signing up to EWSS is that they have a Tax Clearance Certificate.

So now is the time to get working on that if you dont already have one

Tow wrote: »

No. EWSS is a separate scheme from TWSS. It requires a separate application form to be signed by each employer. This will be digital and available on ROS by mid August. Revenue expect employers to join who did not claim for TWSS. It will be backdated to July for these employers. Employers can not be on both schemes at the same time.

head82

Just heard a reporter on RTE 1 o' clock news say those in receipt of the PUP need to confirm eligibility by this Friday or risk losing their payment.
I think he said you had to call into your local welfare office.

I never received any notification regarding this and can't find anything online.

Anyone know anything about this or did I hear him wrong?

Update: It would appear this applies only to those who haven't already confirmed their eligibility.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e936b-update-on-payments-awarded-for-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment-and-enhanced-illness-benefit/

Seve OB

Tow wrote: »

No. EWSS is a separate scheme from TWSS. It requires a separate application form to be signed by each employer. This will be digital and available on ROS by mid August. Revenue expect employers to join who did not claim for TWSS. It will be backdated to July for these employers. Employers can not be on both schemes at the same time.

do we have to re-register if we are already on the TWSS?
I was sure i thought I saw that we didn't need to do anything and it would transfer?

Seve OB

have we any details on how we need to run the EWSS Scheme yet on payroll?
think i saw somewhere that details would be out mid august??
will it be a direct replacement for the TWSS....as in do we still import the csv file for elegibility, do we just rename the payment, do we set up new payments, do we change prsi codes, etc etc
and is there any limit on tops ups?

Tow

1. Yes you need to re-register, Revenue hope to have a form available on ROS mid August.
2. There is a possibility you will need to re-confirm eligibility to the scheme each month.
3. It requires a new EWSS flag to on each eligible employee's Line Item (payslip), when submitted to Revenue.
4. There is more no messing with files and PRSI Classes etc.
5. Upper limit is a 'Gross Pay' of 1,462 per week etc, which is a salary of 76K a year.
6. Details: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/stimulus/employment-wage-subsidy-scheme.aspx

highgiant1985

Tow wrote: »

1. Yes you need to re-register, Revenue hope to have a form available on ROS mid August.
2. There is a possibility you will need to re-confirm eligibility to the scheme each month.
3. It requires a new EWSS flag to on each eligible employee's Line Item (payslip), when submitted to Revenue.
4. There is more no messing with files and PRSI Classes etc.
5. Upper limit is a 'Gross Pay' of 1,462 per week etc, which is a salary of 76K a year.
6. Details: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/stimulus/employment-wage-subsidy-scheme.aspx

If using a software vendor to make paye mod submissions this (EWSS) requirement will mean a software update so you should expect to hear from your vendor in the coming weeks re this. Timelines are very tight and details are still being discussed with Revenue though so vendors have very little time to turn around a solution so have patience with them!

disclaimer: I work for a payroll software company hence the have patience!

NewRed2

Quick question, on the new subsidy scheme starting 1st September, (EWSS), it says employers must monitor the situation monthly to make sure they are down 30% on turnover compared to same period last year. I assume this means overall rather than each month? So it would mean you need to be down 30% from July-December overall... rather than down 30% in September 2020 compared to September 2019 and again October 2020 compared to October 2019, etc?
Can anyone confirm?

collsoft

NewRed2 wrote: »

Quick question, on the new subsidy scheme starting 1st September, (EWSS), it says employers must monitor the situation monthly to make sure they are down 30% on turnover compared to same period last year. I assume this means overall rather than each month? So it would mean you need to be down 30% from July-December overall... rather than down 30% in September 2020 compared to September 2019 and again October 2020 compared to October 2019, etc?
Can anyone confirm?

My understanding is that its 30% from July - December overall.

We are expecting Revenue to publish some guidelines for EWSS tomorrow which will hopefully clarify this

radharc

NewRed2 wrote: »

Quick question, on the new subsidy scheme starting 1st September, (EWSS), it says employers must monitor the situation monthly to make sure they are down 30% on turnover compared to same period last year. I assume this means overall rather than each month? So it would mean you need to be down 30% from July-December overall... rather than down 30% in September 2020 compared to September 2019 and again October 2020 compared to October 2019, etc?
Can anyone confirm?

Yes that’s exactly it. However Revenue are asking that eligibility is reviewed by employers on a monthly basis i.e. employers should reconfirm every month that they expect a 30% decline in the July to Dec period.

There is a Revenue Webinar available on the following link. Probably not worth watching the full hour, instead I’d recommend tuning in for the Q&A at 45 ‘mins.

https://covid19.failteireland.ie/videos/webinar-transition-twss-to-ewss/

collsoft

Revenue have published their guide to EWSS at

https://revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/documents/ewss-guidelines.pdf

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

Revenue have published their guide to EWSS at

https://revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/documents/ewss-guidelines.pdf

can anyone find a link for registration?

PickYourName

Seve OB wrote: »

can anyone find a link for registration?

Guidelines state registration is from 18th Aug (i.e. next Tuesday), so probably not available until then.

Seve OB

PickYourName wrote: »

Guidelines state registration is from 18th Aug (i.e. next Tuesday), so probably not available until then.

Thanks, missed that.

So am I correct in reading that we should be setting payment back up as normal to staff, but will need to include an EWSS payment of a cent in order to indicate that we are claiming the subsidy?

Tow

Seve OB wrote: »

So am I correct in reading that we should be setting payment back up as normal to staff, but will need to include an EWSS payment of a cent in order to indicate that we are claiming the subsidy?

You pay the Employees normally, but set a flag on the payroll to indicate they are eligible. There should be nothing on the their payslip to indicate a subsidy. So the bank can't deny a loan or mortgage. If you jump through all the hoops correctly Revenue will pay the subsidy after the 15th of the following month.

radharc

Is there any guidance around the cutoff of the TWSS, for example fortnightly pay periods finishing in early September?

Tow

radharc wrote: »

Is there any guidance around the cutoff of the TWSS, for example fortnightly pay periods finishing in early September?

If their Pay Date is in September they must be paid using the new EWSS scheme. When the money is earned is irrelevant to Revenue. Revenue will reject any Payroll Submission with a J9 PRSI Class and Pay Date after August. There will me a lot of employers making a total mess.

highgiant1985

radharc wrote: »

Is there any guidance around the cutoff of the TWSS, for example fortnightly pay periods finishing in early September?

Re Cut Off of TWSS - It's driven by pay date. If the payment date or the fortnightly run is for Sept then that fortnightly payroll isn't eligible to claim TWSS. The new Revenue validation will in fact reject the PAYE Mod Submission if users attempt to do so as the J9 PRSI Class will no longer be accept by Revenue for pay dates after 31st of Aug. The fortnightly pay run may be eligible to claim for EWSS (assuming eligibility criteria met).

highgiant1985

Seve OB wrote: »

Thanks, missed that.

So am I correct in reading that we should be setting payment back up as normal to staff, but will need to include an EWSS payment of a cent in order to indicate that we are claiming the subsidy?

Yes correct.

From an employee perspective there's nothing on their payslip to indicate that EWSS is being claimed so they're just paid and processed as normal.

The Employer then must include an EWSS indicator in the PAYE Mod Submission file send to Revenue to identify who they are claiming EWSS for. The way this is controlled will be dependant on the software you use as each provider will have their own way to manage the requirements but its likely to be either an employee level indicator or assigning a specific element to the employee.

The value reported with that EWSS indicator can be any value between 0.00 and 1.00 from a Revenue perspective. It depends on what your software can support. i.e. some software will require a value > 0 to be recorded in order for the EWSS to be included in the submission file.

jos28

Just to confirm - we have staff who have been on TWSS getting €350 per week since April. We now have to register from tomorrow for EWSS, update our payroll software and receive €203 per employee ??

Seve OB

jos28 wrote: »

Just to confirm - we have staff who have been on TWSS getting €350 per week since April. We now have to register from tomorrow for EWSS, update our payroll software and receive €203 per employee ??

thats it in a nutshell really

highgiant1985

Seve OB wrote: »

thats it in a nutshell really

just to caveat the subsidy amount depends on which band the employees Gross weekly Wage falls in to.

If
Less than € 151.50 then no Subsidy
between € 151.50 to € 202.99 then a subsidy of € 151.50
between € 203 to € 1,462 then a subsidy of € 203
More than € 1,462 then no Subsidy