Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

NewRed2

If currently on the TWSS can a company register now for the EWSS but not actually pay though the EWSS until September kicks in? Or if currently on the TWSS should we wait until we have done our final TWSS payment and THEN register for EWSS? Just a tad confused on the point at which I should register.... thanks.

collsoft

NewRed2 wrote: »

If currently on the TWSS can a company register now for the EWSS but not actually pay though the EWSS until September kicks in? Or if currently on the TWSS should we wait until we have done our final TWSS payment and THEN register for EWSS? Just a tad confused on the point at which I should register.... thanks.

Absolutely, if you are eligible for EWSS then you can register now, and switch over from TWSS to EWSS for any payments made after 1st September.

Remember, you might be on TWSS now with some of your employees, but if you have employees who were not eligible for TWSS then its likely that they are eligible for EWSS and can be back dated to 1st July.

If an employee is currently eligible for TWSS then you cant claim EWSS for them until 1st September.

Finally, when you register for EWSS you must give a registration date, and you are only eligible for EWSS from that date (excluding the back dated employees in July/August)

So, if you register for EWSS on 11th September you cannot apply for EWSS for 4th September.

Hope that makes sense!

BTW - The registration process has gone live on ROS this morning, just log in and select the "Manage Tax Registrations" link at the bottom of the screen and then select to register for the "Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme"

NewRed2

collsoft wrote: »

Absolutely, if you are eligible for EWSS then you can register now, and switch over from TWSS to EWSS for any payments made after 1st September.

Remember, you might be on TWSS now with some of your employees, but if you have employees who were not eligible for TWSS then its likely that they are eligible for EWSS and can be back dated to 1st July.

If an employee is currently eligible for TWSS then you cant claim EWSS for them until 1st September.

Finally, when you register for EWSS you must give a registration date, and you are only eligible for EWSS from that date (excluding the back dated employees in July/August)

So, if you register for EWSS on 11th September you cannot apply for EWSS for 4th September.

Hope that makes sense!

BTW - The registration process has gone live on ROS this morning, just log in and select the "Manage Tax Registrations" link at the bottom of the screen and then select to register for the "Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme"

Great stuff, thanks a million!

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

Absolutely, if you are eligible for EWSS then you can register now, and switch over from TWSS to EWSS for any payments made after 1st September.

Remember, you might be on TWSS now with some of your employees, but if you have employees who were not eligible for TWSS then its likely that they are eligible for EWSS and can be back dated to 1st July.

If an employee is currently eligible for TWSS then you cant claim EWSS for them until 1st September.

Finally, when you register for EWSS you must give a registration date, and you are only eligible for EWSS from that date (excluding the back dated employees in July/August)

So, if you register for EWSS on 11th September you cannot apply for EWSS for 4th September.

Hope that makes sense!

BTW - The registration process has gone live on ROS this morning, just log in and select the "Manage Tax Registrations" link at the bottom of the screen and then select to register for the "Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme"

So I’m having an issue with one employee back off maternity leave and can’t get them on the TWSS
Could I register date 1 July now? How would I indicate I want to claim 2 months for that employee?

collsoft

Hi Seve_OB,

Thats a strange one - I have not heard about anybody returning from Maternity Leave being refused for TWSS.

The registration process does not allow you to choose a registration date in the past - the earliest date you can use is the actual date you register.

My understanding is that anybody registered before 1st September will be eligible for a back dated claim - however I will get Revenue to confirm that date and revert.

The back dating process will be very similar to the maternity process- you fill out a spreadsheet and return it to Revenue, they process it and calculate your subsidy and PRSI credit in September.

Hope this helps

Jason

Seve OB wrote: »

So I’m having an issue with one employee back off maternity leave and can’t get them on the TWSS
Could I register date 1 July now? How would I indicate I want to claim 2 months for that employee?

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

Hi Seve_OB,

Thats a strange one - I have not heard about anybody returning from Maternity Leave being refused for TWSS.

The registration process does not allow you to choose a registration date in the past - the earliest date you can use is the actual date you register.

My understanding is that anybody registered before 1st September will be eligible for a back dated claim - however I will get Revenue to confirm that date and revert.

The back dating process will be very similar to the maternity process- you fill out a spreadsheet and return it to Revenue, they process it and calculate your subsidy and PRSI credit in September.

Hope this helps

Jason

thanks

it is a weird one, i think it might be because we merged companies, but under TUPE rules that should be fine.
I need to get back onto them again.

je551e

Hi all,

What are people doing whereby an employer refuses to acknowledge they’ve reduced their salary? Instead saying that because net pay is the same that they have not reduced salary.

Gross pay previously 600
Now 400 sub + 100 top up.

SAMTALK

je551e wrote: »

Hi all,

What are people doing whereby an employer refuses to acknowledge they’ve reduced their salary? Instead saying that because net pay is the same that they have not reduced salary.

Gross pay previously 600
Now 400 sub + 100 top up.

The agreement at beginning of employment was based on Gross ?

This was the argument we had here. Tried to say nett the same but it was because we got Tax refund. Told them Gross wage was the agreement and anything between gross and nett had nothing to do with them

je551e

SAMTALK wrote: »

The agreement at beginning of employment was based on Gross ?

This was the argument we had here. Tried to say nett the same but it was because we got Tax refund. Told them Gross wage was the agreement and anything between gross and nett had nothing to do with them

Yes I’ve told them that too several times but like they refuses to acknowledge the salary has been reduced. It’s frustrating.

SAMTALK

je551e wrote: »

Yes I’ve told them that too several times but like they refuses to acknowledge the salary has been reduced. It’s frustrating.

You need to take it further if they wont listen

It's so frustrating how some employers are using this scheme

collsoft

Ask for a copy of your employment contract which is required to show your salary.

If you were never given one then the employer is already in breach of the employment regulations.

See where that goes.

I assume that the Top Up is a Wage Subsidy and as such you are liable to pay tax directly to Revenue on that €100

je551e wrote: »

Hi all,

What are people doing whereby an employer refuses to acknowledge they’ve reduced their salary? Instead saying that because net pay is the same that they have not reduced salary.

Gross pay previously 600
Now 400 sub + 100 top up.

kmrm

Hey I am just wondering if someone here can better explain the wage subsidy offset that shows in my wages.

So my payslip this week is as follows:
Basic hours 550.93
Covid employer relief 350.00
Cv wage subsidy offset scheme 426.21
Take home pay 474.62

Due to this I usually take home less money than on weeks were there is no covid employer relief on my payslip.

I have tried to talk with our wage department but I'm not getting much joy. I'd just like to find out what the difference in the employer relief and the offset scheme is? At the beginning the two figures used to match.

If anybody has any ideas I would very much appreciate it.

je551e

Reply from employer :

“We did not reduce your salary and your take home pay is the same. While the subsidy is being applied to your salary, your gross pay on your payslip will not be displayed the same and the Revenue and our payroll provider have explained that there is no difference between your Gross & Net pay and pay is deemed as 'Real Time' pay. Your take home pay is unaffected and if you are on a week1 basis you should not have any negative impact when the Revenue reviews are carried out at the end of the year. ”

doc22

je551e wrote: »

Reply from employer :

“We did not reduce your salary and your take home pay is the same. While the subsidy is being applied to your salary, your gross pay on your payslip will not be displayed the same and the Revenue and our payroll provider have explained that there is no difference between your Gross & Net pay and pay is deemed as 'Real Time' pay. Your take home pay is unaffected and if you are on a week1 basis you should not have any negative impact when the Revenue reviews are carried out at the end of the year. ”

Nonsense

shatners bassoon

I'm getting the same. My employer has advised that they will cover any tax liability at the end of the year. Setting aside the (il)legality of this, how easy will it be to ascertain exactly what my loss is?

I'm going to owe tax on the subsidy at the end of the year. This will be identified by Revenue I assume.

I also 'received' PAYE refunds in a few months which my employer has used to reduced the top up required to achieve my net pay. Under the TWSS FAQ they are instructed to pay the refund and this will be reimbursed on top of the subsidy. So not only are they saving money by reducing the top up they have to pay, they're getting a couple of hundred quid back from Revenue, who think that the employer is passing this on to me.

Are there any other issues I'm not considering?

The simplest way of explaining things to your employer is that if your Net Pay is remaining the same while your deductions are substantially reduced, it means that the money you were previously paying to Revenue is now going into your employers back pocket.

SAMTALK

shatners bassoon wrote: »

I'm getting the same. My employer has advised that they will cover any tax liability at the end of the year. Setting aside the (il)legality of this, how easy will it be to ascertain exactly what my loss is?

I'm going to owe tax on the subsidy at the end of the year. This will be identified by Revenue I assume.

I also 'received' PAYE refunds in a few months which my employer has used to reduced the top up required to achieve my net pay. Under the TWSS FAQ they are instructed to pay the refund and this will be reimbursed on top of the subsidy. So not only are they saving money by reducing the top up they have to pay, they're getting a couple of hundred quid back from Revenue, who think that the employer is passing this on to me.

Are there any other issues I'm not considering?

The simplest way of explaining things to your employer is that if your Net Pay is remaining the same while your deductions are substantially reduced, it means that the money you were previously paying to Revenue is now going into your employers back pocket.

This is whats happening a lot. We had arguments for about a month on this but we stood our ground re the gross pay being our agreement, and anything else has nothing to do with them. The tax issues are between us and Revenue

shatners bassoon

The worrying thing is that the accounts team seem to believe that what they're doing is totally normal and I'm being unreasonably difficult in raising queries!

je551e

shatners bassoon wrote: »

The worrying thing is that the accounts team seem to believe that what they're doing is totally normal and I'm being unreasonably difficult in raising queries!

Exactly same here, They should at least understand payroll if they are the ones doing it

je551e

Has anyone got any official document I could send to them? I just can’t get through to them even showed them contract and all.

I don’t want to jeopardise my job at the same time

silent_spark

shatners bassoon wrote: »

The worrying thing is that the accounts team seem to believe that what they're doing is totally normal and I'm being unreasonably difficult in raising queries!

Really worrying that payroll staff can’t understand the difference between gross and net, and why it’s important!

We received consent from our employees before moving on to the scheme, with pay cuts up to 7% depending on how the subsidy rules affected each employee. The alternative was lay offs, so everyone consented, but we had to ask. I’m still hoping we can repay the cut later in the year, so each employee receives their contracted gross annual salary.

shatners bassoon

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/documents/twss-guidance-for-paye-employees.pdf

Show them 6. and 11. on the above.

You're currently not paying any tax on the subsidy portion of your wages. Under normal circumstances, this would mean your net pay will increase in the short term, but you'll have a tax liability at the end of the year. The issue isn't that you're paying more tax, it's that your tax is reduced during the operation of the subsidy but will still remain due and owing at the end of the year. The risk here is that an employee thinks taxes are up to date, spends as normal without realising that they'll owe money to revenue later on.

If you're receiving the same net pay as usual then you have that same liability at the end of the year, but you have received no benefit (by way of reduced tax now). I don't know how any employer could dispute that.

doc22

For the Tax liability at end of year, recovery seems to be pushed till 2022 rather then 2021 via the reduced credits. Hoping two years of medical expenses will sort it out?

je551e

Thanks on a different note as I’m in a few things

From another angle if an employee Takes a weeks holidays on the EWSS , can the subsidy be claimed for them by the employer?

SAMTALK

silent_spark wrote: »

Really worrying that payroll staff can’t understand the difference between gross and net, and why it’s important!

We received consent from our employees before moving on to the scheme, with pay cuts up to 7% depending on how the subsidy rules affected each employee. The alternative was lay offs, so everyone consented, but we had to ask. I’m still hoping we can repay the cut later in the year, so each employee receives their contracted gross annual salary.

I think it suits a lot of companies to play dumb on this.

Fair play to you doing it the right way. We got no notice, just saw it on payslip

doc22

SAMTALK wrote: »

I think it suits a lot of companies to play dumb on this.

Fair play to you doing it the right way. We got no notice, just saw it on payslip

Of course if they paid the proper gross they wouldn't get the TWSS money.

To be honest I don't see why an employer can process an employees tax refund , to the untrained it looks as if the company paid it not revenue

blackwhite

je551e wrote: »

Thanks on a different note as I’m in a few things

From another angle if an employee Takes a weeks holidays on the EWSS , can the subsidy be claimed for them by the employer?

Yes.

Seve OB

So wrong.
If I was in the position where my employer was going to pick up the tax bill, first thing I would do would be shift ALL my credits and cut off over to the wife.
Doing that could actually make you money and would be one way to shove it up their ass.

Poster who said about the payroll staff not knowing the difference, could not necessarily be that. Maybe the just do payroll, rather than being payroll staff as such have little to no understanding. Alternatively it could just be direct instructions from the employer.

Either way, so many are making mistakes, and I think a lot of them (probably most) actually believe they are doing nothing wrong. A few chancers out there no doubt.

Dempo1

What's going to happen with EWSS, Revenue confirming could be up to 6 weeks before business get paid the subsidies as opposed to the current 48hrs. Curious as to how this will affect alot of businesses dependant on the current TWSS

MildThing84

Has anybody had any trouble registering for the new scheme?

Radharc na Sleibhte

Could somebody answer me this, if I have an employee that does 12hrs work at 12€ an hour they are due €144 (weekend staff), so if I give them another hours work the subsidy kicks in? So obviously it would be madness to not give that girl 13hrs work?