Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

gb19815

Hi one question I’m getting top up on payment but now deductions for taxes is this correct ???

WreckingRalph

My employer have put me on TWSS payments, but I fall outside the threshold so I am not supposed to get them.

I have asked them about this, and they said that they will "pay me the difference separately", but this doesn't sound above-board. I don't think that it is a question of my employer not being able to pay salaries, I think they are doing this not to have to pay salaries.

It is also my understanding they are going to continue this with EWSS.

Is there anything I can do about it, apart from resigning?

MrGee

Can someone in the know answer/ explain to me this,
My employer is involved in the wage subsidy scheme since reopening post lockdown,
We have been receiving our average net wage since weve reopened, some company and some subsidy money. Now this total net is a few hundred euro less then my usual gross wage. I understand that revenue did not collect taxes during this time so what has happened to the few hundreds euro?
This money would usually have been paid as my taxes etc etc. Now i read an article today saying that all of the unpaid taxes will be sought after at the end of the year. So does this means that i will be paying back taxes on my net pay? Ive been working full 39 hour weeks.

Heres Johnny

OK, we are now in post TWSS world and not doing EWSS. Prsi class is back to A.
With regards to putting staff back on normal pay, when we put them on normal status they are receiving tax refunds. I understand what is causing this.
On week 1 basis, they don't get tax refund.
What status should they be in? Week 1 or normal? I'd prefer them not to be getting tax refunds to be honest as it's going to come back to haunt them at some point.

Seve OB

Heres Johnny wrote: »

OK, we are now in post TWSS world and not doing EWSS. Prsi class is back to A.
With regards to putting staff back on normal pay, when we put them on normal status they are receiving tax refunds. I understand what is causing this.
On week 1 basis, they don't get tax refund.
What status should they be in? Week 1 or normal? I'd prefer them not to be getting tax refunds to be honest as it's going to come back to haunt them at some point.

It is not down to you to decide and you should never change their tax status.
When you request RPN it will pull the relevant tax status

collsoft

Revenue have put all employees who were on TWSS or PUP onto a week 1 basis.

That was done some time ago.

I would suggest that you are not actually using the most up to date RPNs if your employees are getting refunds.

So double check your RPNs

Heres Johnny wrote: »

OK, we are now in post TWSS world and not doing EWSS. Prsi class is back to A.
With regards to putting staff back on normal pay, when we put them on normal status they are receiving tax refunds. I understand what is causing this.
On week 1 basis, they don't get tax refund.
What status should they be in? Week 1 or normal? I'd prefer them not to be getting tax refunds to be honest as it's going to come back to haunt them at some point.

Pistachio19

Seve OB wrote: »

It is not down to you to decide and you should never change their tax status.
When you request RPN it will pull the relevant tax status

This was a question I have. So I gather updated RPNs will be issued for all employees who were on the TWSS up to end August? Going forward I am guessing they will be kept on week 1 basis. Glad to be coming off it now.

angela1711

I am so confused by this new scheme.
Are we back to normal payslips that display hours worked ? Is tax going to be deducted as normal ? I was on the temporary wage subsidy scheme since it began a few months ago and was getting 350e plus an employer top up (the amount of top up depended on the amount of days worked). So I was always getting at least 350e even if I only worked a day.

Are we going to get a flat rate of 203e plus the top up now ? Or is it 203e plus whatever hours you worked multiplied by your normal hourly rate ?

Seve OB

angela1711 wrote: »

I am so confused by this new scheme.
Are we back to normal payslips that display hours worked ? Is tax going to be deducted as normal ? I was on the temporary wage subsidy scheme since it began a few months ago and was getting 350e plus an employer top up (the amount of top up depended on the amount of days worked). So I was always getting at least 350e even if I only worked a day.

Are we going to get a flat rate of 203e plus the top up now ? Or is it 203e plus whatever hours you worked multiplied by your normal hourly rate ?

yes to your first questions

don't worry about the 203, it has nothing to do with you as an employee

jos28

Pistachio19 wrote: »

This was a question I have. So I gather updated RPNs will be issued for all employees who were on the TWSS up to end August? Going forward I am guessing they will be kept on week 1 basis. Glad to be coming off it now.

Does anyone know if TWSS employees will be put back onto cumulative tax now that TWSS has ended

Seve OB

jos28 wrote: »

Does anyone know if TWSS employees will be put back onto cumulative tax now that TWSS has ended

An employee can ask the revenue to move them to a cumulative basis

collsoft

Yes, everybody who was on TWSS or PUP is going to be on a Week 1 basis until the end of the year.

Everybody should already be on a Week 1 basis already, and will continue to be so.

Pistachio19 wrote: »

This was a question I have. So I gather updated RPNs will be issued for all employees who were on the TWSS up to end August? Going forward I am guessing they will be kept on week 1 basis. Glad to be coming off it now.

tina1040

Seve OB wrote: »

yes to your first questions

don't worry about the 203, it has nothing to do with you as an employee

Yes all wages back to normal except it is advisable for employees to stay on Week 1/Month 1 basis to minimise the tax liability on the subsidy.
The employer will receive an amount based on wages but nothing to do with payslips.

Seve OB

Anyone use sage payroll?
I rang them on Friday asking about EWSS and was told there is an update but it is still not live so I can’t process wages yet for the coming week. PITA as I’m heading away for a few days, but they are leaving it very late

The_Chap

Seve OB wrote: »

Anyone use sage payroll?
I rang them on Friday asking about EWSS and was told there is an update but it is still not live so I can’t process wages yet for the coming week. PITA as I’m heading away for a few days, but they are leaving it very late

We received an email from Sage Ireland on 28/08 that v23.3 was available to download

There was a full pdf user guide attached also

Beasty

Threads merged

je551e

hi does anyone know where the template for back dating the EWSS is?

collsoft

Not Yet, we are waiting for Revenue to issue a template Excel spreadsheet for that

je551e wrote: »

hi does anyone know where the template for back dating the EWSS is?

collsoft

Revenue confirms certain proprietary directors can claim EWSS from 1 September

On 28 August 2020, Minister for Finance, Paschal Donohoe TD, decided on the conditions whereby proprietary directors could access the Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme (EWSS).

Today (31 August 2020), Revenue confirmed that the EWSS can be claimed in respect of proprietary directors, subject to the following conditions:

• the employer meets the eligibility criteria for the EWSS,
• the proprietary director is on the payroll of the eligible employer, and
• the proprietary director has been paid wages which were reported to Revenue on the payroll of the eligible employer at any stage between 1 July 2019 and 30 June 2020.

Where a person is a proprietary director of two or more eligible companies, a claim for EWSS can only be submitted in respect of a single company. In this situation the following will apply:

• the proprietary director will be required to elect one company for the purposes of making EWSS claims for the period of the scheme. The election will be deemed to be made on the first submission of an EWSS claim in respect of the proprietary director,
• once an election is made it cannot be changed during the term of the scheme,
• no claims for EWSS in respect of the same proprietary director should be submitted by the other companies.


Orla Fitzpatrick, head of Revenue’s Medium Enterprises Division and responsible for implementing the Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme, summarised some additional advice for employers in advance of the scheme being launched on 1 September:
“Eligible employers who wish to claim EWSS need to register for the scheme in advance of making their submission through Revenue’s Online Service, ROS. Such employers must have an active PAYE/PRSI registration, a bank account linked to that registration and they must also have tax clearance.”
Over the last week, over 16,000 employers have registered for the scheme and over 15,000 applications for tax clearance have been made. Last week Revenue reminded employers that making an application for tax clearance and registering for the EWSS are separate processes. Both processes need to be completed before an employer can access EWSS supports. Additionally, employers who are currently claiming the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS) must separately register for the EWSS as different eligibility conditions apply to both schemes.
Information and guidance in relation to the EWSS can be found here. Further expanded employer guidelines, including additional information on the inclusion of proprietary directors in the scheme, will issue later this week.


https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2020/pr-310820-proprietarydirectors-ewss-1-September.aspx

Pistachio19

Just want to thank the wonderful contributors to this thread over the past few stressful months. It's been a great source of information.

collsoft

EWSS for Employers who are still closed (such as Wet Pubs)

We have had a lot of queries from employers who are still closed (such as wet pubs) and who were running TWSS asking if they can run EWSS even though they are not paying normal wages.

In short, yes they can - the detail from Revenue is as follows;


There is no condition within the Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme (EWSS) that an employee must be ‘working’ in order for the employer to claim a subsidy in respect of that employee.

The EWSS resumes normal operation of payroll for employers under the PAYE system. It re-establishes the requirement to operate PAYE on all payments to employees which includes the regular deduction and remittance of income tax, USC and PRSI at the normal rates.

Where an eligible employer makes a payment of emoluments to a qualifying employee, the employer can a claim an employment wage subsidy in respect of that employee. The level of subsidy will be determined by the amount of gross pay paid to the qualifying employee in accordance with subsection (8) of the EWSS legislation.

A qualifying employee is an individual who was eligible under the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme in relation to the employer, and, an individual who is on the payroll of the employer and receives a payment of emoluments during the qualifying period (01/07/2020 to 31/03/2021) but excludes connected parties not on the payroll of the employer at any time during the period 01/07/2019 to 30/06/2020

Thus, where a business such as a pub remains closed from 1st Sept and the employer continues to pay employees, the payment of emoluments to the employees must be taxed accordingly under the PAYE system. Where employer and employee EWSS eligibility criteria are met, the employer can make a claim for an employment wage subsidy in respect of those payments of emoluments to employees and the of level of subsidy amount will be determined by the amount of gross pay paid to the employee.

johnmolloy554

Does anyone have a link to the monthly breakdown for insurable weeks for 2020? i.e 5 for January, 4 for February etc

collsoft

Hi John,

You are the second person today that I have heard asking that particular question.

It cam up today when I was talking to a colleague of mine in another Payroll software company - he had been asked by a client.

In our software we allocate insurable weeks on the basis of 5,4,4 as indeed does my collegue.

Some packages like Sage go with 4,4,5

It would seem that the Department of Social Welfare have written to some employers querying why there is 5 insurable weeks in January 2019.

Is that what has happened in your case?

Jason

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to the monthly breakdown for insurable weeks for 2020? i.e 5 for January, 4 for February etc

kennethsmyth

collsoft wrote: »

Hi John,

You are the second person today that I have heard asking that particular question.

It cam up today when I was talking to a colleague of mine in another Payroll software company - he had been asked by a client.

In our software we allocate insurable weeks on the basis of 5,4,4 as indeed does my collegue.

Some packages like Sage go with 4,4,5

It would seem that the Department of Social Welfare have written to some employers querying why there is 5 insurable weeks in January 2019.

Is that what has happened in your case?

Jason

There’s 53 weeks in 2020 so December will be 5 weeks also. The accounting norm is 4,4,5 in a usual 13 week quarter but revenue could go their own way.

Soulsun

Once a company ceases to avail of the TWSS do the employees return to Class A1 from J9?

collsoft

Indeed, this is going to be a busy year with Week 53 happening for many employers, although it does happen each year depending on the day of the week that you pay your wages.

But, it wont make any difference to monthly paid employees as they dont usually benefit from a Week 53.

Also, The case that I was rereferring to yesterday was in January 2019, so I dont think this years Week 53 is the root of the query.

A lot of software uses 5,4,4 for a very simple reason - Tax Deduction Cards.

If you go back to the time when Revenue use to actually send employers a pre-printed TDC, the monthly figures for January was always printed on Line 5, and that is where it all started!!!!

Some people would argue that January and March are both 5 week months but that wouldnt work.

I am just curious about the rationale behind DAESP look at this particular issue now - perhaps if they actually bothered to publish clear guideline about insurability for employers in plain English it would be better than the mysterious "Scope Section" rulings they tend to hand out

kennethsmyth wrote: »

There’s 53 weeks in 2020 so December will be 5 weeks also. The accounting norm is 4,4,5 in a usual 13 week quarter but revenue could go their own way.

collsoft

Yes,

Your payroll goes back to using the normal PRSI class, all deductions such as LPT must be applied and BIK must now be operated as normal.

From today all Payrolls must revert back to normal operations

Soulsun wrote: »

Once a company ceases to avail of the TWSS do the employees return to Class A1 from J9?

NewRed2

collsoft wrote: »

Yes,

Your payroll goes back to using the normal PRSI class, all deductions such as LPT must be applied and BIK must now be operated as normal.

From today all Payrolls must revert back to normal operations

Ah right, yes it seems to switch back automatically to A1 for everyone, but just to clarify, we don't use A1? We use whatever we would normally have used in pre-covid days - Is that right? (thanks!)

shatners bassoon

collsoft wrote: »

Indeed, this is going to be a busy year with Week 53 happening for many employers, although it does happen each year depending on the day of the week that you pay your wages.

But, it wont make any difference to monthly paid employees as they dont usually benefit from a Week 53.

Also, The case that I was rereferring to yesterday was in January 2019, so I dont think this years Week 53 is the root of the query.

A lot of software uses 5,4,4 for a very simple reason - Tax Deduction Cards.

If you go back to the time when Revenue use to actually send employers a pre-printed TDC, the monthly figures for January was always printed on Line 5, and that is where it all started!!!!

Some people would argue that January and March are both 5 week months but that wouldnt work.

I am just curious about the rationale behind DAESP look at this particular issue now - perhaps if they actually bothered to publish clear guideline about insurability for employers in plain English it would be better than the mysterious "Scope Section" rulings they tend to hand out

Is there a definition of what constitutes an insurable week?

We have a staff member who started on Monday the 10th of February. Our monthly payroll submission (Sageone) gave her 4 insurable weeks for february.

As per my reading of the revenue tax calendar (https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/paying-an-employee/weekly-and-monthly-income-tax-calendars/index.aspx) she worked at least a day in weeks 6,7,8 and 9 and should get an insurable week for each.

She has complained that she worked elsewhere immediately before starting with us and as such, her previous employer would already have given her an insurable week for week 6 and as such, we should not. This is only an issue due to the fact that her ANWP is reduced if we have to divide by four insurable weeks.

Revenue have advised on the helpline a few times that we should not be concerned with the number of insurable weeks worked under a previous employer but I would be interested to know whether there's any official written guidance on this.

collsoft

Im not sure what software you are using, but in our software when you dont Pay TWSS it picks up the Regular class indicated on the employee file.

Generally speaking this would be class "A"

The actual sub-class (A1, AX, Al etc) is determined when you actually process a wage because it depends on the amount of "Pay Subject To PRSI EE"

Other packages my simply be reverting back to A1 but you may have to reset the correct individual class on the employee file.

NewRed2 wrote: »

Ah right, yes it seems to switch back automatically to A1 for everyone, but just to clarify, we don't use A1? We use whatever we would normally have used in pre-covid days - Is that right? (thanks!)