Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

mogilvie

Green Mile wrote: »

Where can I get the csv template for the TWSS Reconciliation so that I an complete and load to ros?
My system doesn't produce a TWSS Reconciliation so have to do this manually.

Revenue guide here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/twss/reconciliation.aspx

They were initially going to issue a pre-populated CSV file. But that hasn't happened yet.

Message me directly and I will send you a sample file.

Regards,

Mark
Parolla

Green Mile

mogilvie wrote: »

Revenue guide here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/twss/reconciliation.aspx

They were initially going to issue a pre-populated CSV file. But that hasn't happened yet.

Message me directly and I will send you a sample file.

Regards,

Mark
Parolla

Appreciate that, thanks,

PickYourName

Is anyone else using Sage Payroll?

I've just had an interesting Web chat with one of their agents, as I couldn't quite get my head around their online help on the topic of TWSS reconciliation.

Apparently, they don’t support the generation of the Revenue defined csv file. OK, so…. What you have to do is re-submit all the relevant payruns. As we pay weekly, this is quite a few (about 25). A bit of a pain, but it gets better!

Apparently, all the COVID payments have to be submitted as a particular type. Now when we started using the TWSS (I’m guessing we were one of the very first), they didn’t have this special type defined, so we created our own payment type with the right attributes (i.e. not subject to tax). As it seemed to work, we kept on using it until the end.

What they are asking everyone to do is to go into every single affected payrun and for every single employee to change the payment from one type to another and then re-submit the payrun. But, wait, it gets better! You can’t actually do that, as editing the payment type isn’t actually supported: you have to delete the original payment and add a new one to replace it. We’ve about 20 employees and about 25 pay runs with two edits per employee. About 1,000 manual edits in other words.

The agent confirmed that this was indeed exactly what we had to do.

Can you imagine?

My mind is well and truly boggled.

Seve OB

PickYourName wrote: »

Is anyone else using Sage Payroll?

I've just had an interesting Web chat with one of their agents, as I couldn't quite get my head around their online help on the topic of TWSS reconciliation.

Apparently, they don’t support the generation of the Revenue defined csv file. OK, so…. What you have to do is re-submit all the relevant payruns. As we pay weekly, this is quite a few (about 25). A bit of a pain, but it gets better!

Apparently, all the COVID payments have to be submitted as a particular type. Now when we started using the TWSS (I’m guessing we were one of the very first), they didn’t have this special type defined, so we created our own payment type with the right attributes (i.e. not subject to tax). As it seemed to work, we kept on using it until the end.

What they are asking everyone to do is to go into every single affected payrun and for every single employee to change the payment from one type to another and then re-submit the payrun. But, wait, it gets better! You can’t actually do that, as editing the payment type isn’t actually supported: you have to delete the original payment and add a new one to replace it. We’ve about 20 employees and about 25 pay runs with two edits per employee. About 1,000 manual edits in other words.

The agent confirmed that this was indeed exactly what we had to do.

Can you imagine?

My mind is well and truly boggled.

So is mine.
Use Sage myself and always had the Covid payments defined as they should be since day one. Maybe you just missed something.

PickYourName

Seve OB wrote: »

So is mine.
Use Sage myself and always had the Covid payments defined as they should be since day one. Maybe you just missed something.

Me too, but the agent confirmed what I said is correct and I'm going to have to go in and do the manual changes. It's there on their online help:

https://help.accounting.sage.com/en-ie/payroll/absence-and-holidays/covid-19-reconciling-termporary-wage-subsidy-scheme-payments.html?tocpath=Advice%20for%20Coronavirus%20(COVID%2019)%7C_____2

In particular:

"Edit the payment type for each affected TWSS payment in the pay run from Business Expense to Covid Payment"

The agent also said he'd been dealing with many queries similar to mine all day, so it's something they know about.

Did you use this special "Covid Payment" payment type from when you started using the TWSS?

As I said, we didn't as it didn't exist when we started and used a different "Business Expense" type instead (we gave it a different name so it appeared correctly on payslips).

Seve OB

PickYourName wrote: »

Me too, but the agent confirmed what I said is correct and I'm going to have to go in and do the manual changes. It's there on their online help:

https://help.accounting.sage.com/en-ie/payroll/absence-and-holidays/covid-19-reconciling-termporary-wage-subsidy-scheme-payments.html?tocpath=Advice%20for%20Coronavirus%20(COVID%2019)%7C_____2

In particular:

"Edit the payment type for each affected TWSS payment in the pay run from Business Expense to Covid Payment"

The agent also said he'd been dealing with many queries similar to mine all day, so it's something they know about.

Did you use this special "Covid Payment" payment type from when you started using the TWSS?

As I said, we didn't as it didn't exist when we started and used a different "Business Expense" type instead (we gave it a different name so it appeared correctly on payslips).

yes, we've been paying covid payments since day 1 and made sure what i did was correct. i read up all the gvt docs, so it is possible that i held off processing payroll till the 11th hour so that sage could get the update through. i know i had to do this when the EWSS came in, but i can't remember back to the start of the TWSS if it was the same.

i'll have to double check everything was done ok when im back in work in a couple of weeks time (holiday next week and only doing 2 days now so lots of work building up) but im fairly sure our covid payments were done correctly. sure if they weren't, we wouldn't have received the subsidies?

PickYourName

Seve OB wrote: »

yes, we've been paying covid payments since day 1 and made sure what i did was correct. i read up all the gvt docs, so it is possible that i held off processing payroll till the 11th hour so that sage could get the update through. i know i had to do this when the EWSS came in, but i can't remember back to the start of the TWSS if it was the same.

i'll have to double check everything was done ok when im back in work in a couple of weeks time (holiday next week and only doing 2 days now so lots of work building up) but im fairly sure our covid payments were done correctly. sure if they weren't, we wouldn't have received the subsidies?

That's exactly what I thought - we were getting the subsidies too.

I hate to say this, but I think there's a good chance you're in the same situation as us.

I've just checked the online help for setting up the TWSS (which we would have used at the time - like you I cannot remember the details), and it says:

"Enter the wage subsidy amount as non-taxable amount" - no mention of a special payment type.

I'm fairly sure the specifically named type didn't exist when I set it up, but can't be sure. Either way, it's what I did and as you say it seemed to work so left well alone.

radharc

Looking for thoughts on the sweepback:

Imagine a multi-department business where some departments are clearly eligible for EWSS and others are not. Should employees from only the EWSS eligible departments be included in the sweepback or is it designed to include all employees during July & August who weren't suitable for the TWSS

mogilvie

radharc wrote: »

Looking for thoughts on the sweepback:

Imagine a multi-department business where some departments are clearly eligible for EWSS and others are not. Should employees from only the EWSS eligible departments be included in the sweepback or is it designed to include all employees during July & August who weren't suitable for the TWSS

The EWSS system is structured, and its intent, is that only those qualifying employees are claimed for. Individual eligible departments of a business can be claimed for by selecting only those employees in that business unit.

Mark
Parolla

mogilvie

Seve OB wrote: »

yes, we've been paying covid payments since day 1 and made sure what i did was correct. i read up all the gvt docs, so it is possible that i held off processing payroll till the 11th hour so that sage could get the update through. i know i had to do this when the EWSS came in, but i can't remember back to the start of the TWSS if it was the same.

i'll have to double check everything was done ok when im back in work in a couple of weeks time (holiday next week and only doing 2 days now so lots of work building up) but im fairly sure our covid payments were done correctly. sure if they weren't, we wouldn't have received the subsidies?

The TWSS reconciliation is there for two reasons. The first is that Revenue only introduced the OtherPayments field for payroll submissions during the Operational Phase. So during the Transitional Phase, when the employer had to determine the ARNWP and the subsidy, they didn't receive those numbers from anyone. They just gave employers the full subsidy and now the need to recover the overpayment.

The second is that there are relevant number of submissions that were incorrect, wrong class, incorrect ARNWP etc. So the reconciliation is there to tidy those up.

Mark
Parolla

PickYourName

mogilvie wrote: »

The TWSS reconciliation is there for two reasons. The first is that Revenue only introduced the OtherPayments field for payroll submissions during the Operational Phase. So during the Transitional Phase, when the employer had to determine the ARNWP and the subsidy, they didn't receive those numbers from anyone. They just gave employers the full subsidy and now the need to recover the overpayment.

The second is that there are relevant number of submissions that were incorrect, wrong class, incorrect ARNWP etc. So the reconciliation is there to tidy those up.

Mark
Parolla

I understand that.

The problem with it is that if you are using Sage Payroll, they are asking you to (a) change the payment type for each payment made (i.e. for each employee for each payrun) and (b) resubmit the payrun information to Revenue for all relevant payruns (i.e. between mid-March and end-August).

I don't fully understand why they are asking to do this, but aparently they are.

All documented on their Web site and confirmed to me earlier today by one of their support people.

I'm holding off on actually doing it until closer to the Revenue deadline in the hope that they will implement something different, but for now this is what they are saying.

mogilvie

PickYourName wrote: »

I understand that.

The problem with it is that if you are using Sage Payroll, they are asking you to (a) change the payment type for each payment made (i.e. for each employee for each payrun) and (b) resubmit the payrun information to Revenue for all relevant payruns (i.e. between mid-March and end-August).

I don't fully understand why they are asking to do this, but aparently they are.

All documented on their Web site and confirmed to me earlier today by one of their support people.

I'm holding off on actually doing it until closer to the Revenue deadline in the hope that they will implement something different, but for now this is what they are saying.

You've got some time to wait, so that's not a bad plan.
Revenue originally had the intent of generating the initial CSV reconciliation file for you. That may yet happen. In which case you could probably generate a report in sage and merge that with the Revenue CSV file. Use the upload file method instead of resubmitting.

In any case, it can't hurt to wait and see what unfolds.

Regards,
Mark
Parolla

PickYourName

mogilvie wrote: »

Use the upload file method instead of resubmitting.

The problem is there IS no file upload method!

mogilvie wrote: »

In any case, it can't hurt to wait and see what unfolds.

Regards,
Mark
Parolla

I think that's the only sane option, OK.

I got the impression from the agent on the Web chat earlier that they were dealing with a flood of queries on the same topic, so hopefuly they will act.

collsoft

Revenue have published some details on how tax liabilities that arise from TWSS or PUP will be collected from employees.

Employees will have the option of paying any such liabilities by opting to reduce their tax credits for 4 years starting in 2022.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2020/pr-250920-revenue-update-on-ewss-sweepback-payments.aspx

silent_spark

collsoft wrote: »

Revenue have published some details on how tax liabilities that arise from TWSS or PUP will be collected from employees.

Employees will have the option of paying any such liabilities by opting to reduce their tax credits for 4 years starting in 2022.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2020/pr-250920-revenue-update-on-ewss-sweepback-payments.aspx

That's great - lots of options for employees, depending on their circumstances.

Pistachio19

mogilvie wrote: »

It's difficult to figure out the cause for the errors without seeing the file and the details in the Payroll Submission Request.
You only have two types of error, so I would suggest logging into ROS and taking a look at the PSR's for some of the employees. In particular looking at the EmployeeID in both the rec. file and the PSR.
If you've done that, and still can't see a difference then you'll probably have to get in touch with Revenue and your software company.

Regards,
Mark

Apparently it was an issue with Revenue. Had to do it again this afternoon and it worked.

The_Chap

Well Revenue didn’t hang about rolling out the compliance checks! Letter went out tonight and you have 5 days to respond with evidence that the TWSS claim made is valid based on the criterion

PickYourName

The_Chap wrote: »

Well Revenue didn’t hang about rolling out the compliance checks! Letter went out tonight and you have 5 days to respond with evidence that the TWSS claim made is valid based on the criterion

What compliance check? Is this a new one?

We had a letter and check ages ago, had to supply a lot of information, including sample payslips. Got the all clear afterwards.

Is this a new round of checks?

silent_spark

PickYourName wrote: »

What compliance check? Is this a new one?

We had a letter and check ages ago, had to supply a lot of information, including sample payslips. Got the all clear afterwards.

Is this a new round of checks?

We just got our compliance letter this past week, I'd say they’ve been sending them in batches.

Pistachio19

PickYourName wrote: »

What compliance check? Is this a new one?

We had a letter and check ages ago, had to supply a lot of infjormation, including sample payslips. Got the all clear afterwards.

Is this a new round of checks?

Sounds like some are only getting it now. Ours is on ROS today.

The_Chap

silent_spark wrote: »

We just got our compliance letter this past week, I'd say they’ve been sending them in batches.

It would appear so yes

collsoft

I would say that every employer who used TWSS will eventually be contacted by Revenue like this.

They are doing it in tranches, if you have not been contacted yet, then you will in the future

The_Chap

They don’t give you long to respond do they! We received the letter on ROS overnight so saw it Friday morning, letter dated 01/10 and you have 5 days from date of letter, 2 of these days are the weekend so strictly speaking we only have 3 working days, seems odd they don’t give a reasonable time

Seve OB

The_Chap wrote: »

They don’t give you long to respond do they! We received the letter on ROS overnight so saw it Friday morning, letter dated 01/10 and you have 5 days from date of letter, 2 of these days are the weekend so strictly speaking we only have 3 working days, seems odd they don’t give a reasonable time

I haven’t been in work since Wednesday. Haven’t received anything yet but maybe something in since then. Industry is decimated so perhaps they will leave the likes of us till last. They don’t even have to check, it is well known.
But a quick turnaround like that is not on and I suspect there won’t be an issue if you are late.
I haven’t been in since Wednesday for a reason, there is no work coming in, no money to pay wages, no hope for the business. In my role I’ve loads to do, but only 2 days to get it done so a big backlog forming!

qwabercd

Not sure if it clarifies in the letter but you'd imagine the 5 days would be workdays?

PickYourName

I’m struggling with TWSS reconciliation – Sage whose payroll I use are useless.

According to the TWSS FAQ document:

“Revenue will make available for download a reconciliation detail CSV file of the TWSS reconciliation details held within the Revenue systems. The CSV will contain all active J9 payslips where subsidy was paid by Revenue to the employer and all the reported subsidy payments.

The employer can use this information to assist them in the reconciliation process.

This feature will be available in ROS in late September 2020.”

The question is where can I find this file to download?

mogilvie

PickYourName wrote: »

I’m struggling with TWSS reconciliation – Sage whose payroll I use are useless.

According to the TWSS FAQ document:

“Revenue will make available for download a reconciliation detail CSV file of the TWSS reconciliation details held within the Revenue systems. The CSV will contain all active J9 payslips where subsidy was paid by Revenue to the employer and all the reported subsidy payments.

The employer can use this information to assist them in the reconciliation process.

This feature will be available in ROS in late September 2020.”

The question is where can I find this file to download?

It's not live yet, Revenue are still working on it.
I doubt if it will be available before the October deadline on Stage 1 of Reconciliation.

If you are relying on this file then I suggest contacting Revenue via my enquiries and stating that you really need it in order to reconcile. They're aware that some software systems need this file in order to run reconciliation, so you're just notifying them of why you might be late with this stage.

Mark
Parolla

PickYourName

mogilvie wrote: »

It's not live yet, Revenue are still working on it.
I doubt if it will be available before the October deadline on Stage 1 of Reconciliation.

If you are relying on this file then I suggest contacting Revenue via my enquiries and stating that you really need it in order to reconcile. They're aware that some software systems need this file in order to run reconciliation, so you're just notifying them of why you might be late with this stage.

Mark
Parolla

Thanks - much apreciated and useful to know.

I've already sent a query in asking where the file is.

I'm using Sage Business Cloud Payroll. It is completely useless when it comes to this and aparently won't be ammended in any way.

Without a file from Revenue I can't check what information has been submitted, so can't do the reconcilliation.

It's something of a nightmare: I'm surprised others aren't having the same issue.

mogilvie

PickYourName wrote: »

Thanks - much apreciated and useful to know.

I've already sent a query in asking where the file is.

I'm using Sage Business Cloud Payroll. It is completely useless when it comes to this and aparently won't be ammended in any way.

Without a file from Revenue I can't check what information has been submitted, so can't do the reconcilliation.

It's something of a nightmare: I'm surprised others aren't having the same issue.

It depends on your software.

Speaking for ourselves, we sent all the data to Revenue at the time of payslip submission.

As for the early data (before Revenue were able to accept the covidy subsidy amount) we simply resubmitted the users payslips over a weekend. There's no CSV upload required and no input from our customers either, it was done in the background.

If you can generate a report, then you can just submit every TWSS subsidy payslip using the template file from Revenue. Link to template csv is here:
https://revenue-ie.github.io/paye-employers-documentation/PIT4/Screens/TWSS_Reconciliation_CSV_Example.csv

You can upload multiple CSV files to Revenue, they just take the latest version of the employee based on their PPSN and Employment ID. So there won't be double ups with information already submitted via your software. You will be able to check for those later on.

Regards,
Mark
Parolla

LuasSimon

I have a daughter ( Leaving cert) who took up a part time job circa 10 hours a week in local restaurant after they reopened in early August after shutdown.
Is she now entitled to seek a covid type payment as they are shutting for the 3 weeks (initially of level 3)??...she wasnt working prior to this so wouldnt have been entitled previously...