Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

jammiedodgers

Changes coming to the rates of subsidy

Under the new scheme there will be four rates with €203 paid for every employee earning between €151 and €203 a week; €250 for those paid between €204 and €300; €300 for those paid between €300 and €400 and €350 for those earning between €400 and €1,462

Seve OB

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Changes coming to the rates of subsidy

any idea when this is kicking in?

collsoft

Not yet Seve OB,

Not much information available publicly- none available privately yet fro Revenue

There are a number of key questions;

1) When do new rates apply from
2) any change to Revenue payment schedule

The lower and upper thresholds of the scheme are the same - subsidy available for Gross pay between €151.50 and €1462 per week - rates as per JammieDodgers post, so your software will still mark the eligible wages correctly.

However your software will calculate the amount of subsidy due incorrectly as it will only have two rates of €151.50 and €203 per week - so you won't lose out, but software may give a wrong calculation.

For me the big unknown is the payment timing. Under the current scheme next payments due to employers after 15th November mostly - not sure how many employers can wait that long if you have been told to close.

So I would expect some movement there, but that will lead to other problems with corrections. Remember in TWSS you couldn't make changes after your initial submission.

Let's see how it goes over the next couple of days

Seve OB wrote: »

any idea when this is kicking in?

blackwhite

New rates of PUP are effective from Tuesday 27th October, so wouldn't be surprised to see similar for EWSS. Possible leave for 1 November so as not to incentivise anyone to delay payroll from 25th to 27th, etc.

collsoft

That would make sense.

I had asked Revenue for details last night, but they told me this morning that they are still awaiting confirmation of the date.

Interestingly they are telling me that there will not be any changes to the timing of payments of EWSS to employers.

So, Employers will have to bank roll the payments themselves until at least the next calendar month.

There was an early payment run next month such that if you had accepted your monthly statement early, you got paid around the 9th October, otherwise you had to wait until after 15th.

blackwhite wrote: »

New rates of PUP are effective from Tuesday 27th October, so wouldn't be surprised to see similar for EWSS. Possible leave for 1 November so as not to incentivise anyone to delay payroll from 25th to 27th, etc.

collsoft

Just got word from Revenue that it looks like this change will apply to all payrolls with a payment date from the 20th October.

Revenue will still be calculating subsidies on the old rates until ROS is updated, but they will sweep back and correct anything that has a payment date from the 20th.

blackwhite wrote: »

New rates of PUP are effective from Tuesday 27th October, so wouldn't be surprised to see similar for EWSS. Possible leave for 1 November so as not to incentivise anyone to delay payroll from 25th to 27th, etc.

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

Just got word from Revenue that it looks like this change will apply to all payrolls with a payment date from the 20th October.

Revenue will still be calculating subsidies on the old rates until ROS is updated, but they will sweep back and correct anything that has a payment date from the 20th.

thanks

it might be worthwhile for some to rejig some payrolls before sending the files.

no point in paying someone 299 if you only get 250 subsidy but if you give them 2 quid more can then claim an extra 50 bucks!

collsoft

Exactly - expecting official confirmation over lunch

Also, if you are running a monthly payroll you might be better off on a payment date of 20th compared to the 19th

Seve OB wrote: »

thanks

it might be worthwhile for some to rejig some payrolls before sending the files.

no point in paying someone 299 if you only get 250 subsidy but if you give them 2 quid more can then claim an extra 50 bucks!

tina1040

An employee is off sick since Monday for a few weeks. It's not covid related and she is monthly paid and will not be paid for time off. She has submitted the illness benefit application.

We are claiming EWSS and I'm trying to figure out if the amount received for this month will be affected.

collsoft

Hi Tina,

I assume that you will be paying her something for the period up until she went off sick.

As long as that amount is more than €656.50 (Gross pay) you will receive an EWSS subsidy of some kind.

If you are paying that any date from today onwards you will be paid the subsidy at the new rates.

If you adjust the number of insurable weeks to be less than 4 (a partial month) then Revenue will pay you a weekly subsidy for the relevant number of insurable weeks and weekly thresholds.

So if your October has 4 weeks, but you adjust her payment for 3 weeks to allow for her going on sick leave then Revenue will pay you 3 weeks of subsidy.

If you pay a monthly salary with 4 or 5 insurable weeks then the calculation will be based on monthly thresholds and subsidies - i dont have these exact figures just yet, but they would be based on weekly figures multiplied by 52 and then divided by 12

Hope this helps

Jason

tina1040 wrote: »

An employee is off sick since Monday for a few weeks. It's not covid related and she is monthly paid and will not be paid for time off. She has submitted the illness benefit application.

We are claiming EWSS and I'm trying to figure out if the amount received for this month will be affected.

collsoft

I see actually that the new rates apply from 16th October according to this press release, but perhaps the first payment is on Tuesday 27th

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/64613-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment-rates-announced-19-october-2020/

blackwhite wrote: »

New rates of PUP are effective from Tuesday 27th October, so wouldn't be surprised to see similar for EWSS. Possible leave for 1 November so as not to incentivise anyone to delay payroll from 25th to 27th, etc.

blackwhite

collsoft wrote: »

I see actually that the new rates apply from 16th October according to this press release, but perhaps the first payment is on Tuesday 27th

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/64613-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment-rates-announced-19-october-2020/

Had been working off last night's announcement

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/66269-ireland-placed-on-level-5-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid/

Good to see it effective this week if possible, will get all of our October payroll covered by it

jos28

I am finding hard to get my head around the Employer qualifying criteria for EWSS. How can you predict that your sales/income will be down by 30%. EG, if you an essential retailer who will endevour to stay open and pay staff EWSS with top up. Pay weekly payroll, submit to Revenue and then reconciliation is not done until end of month
If your sales remain static (unlikely) or only drop by 25%, do you have to repay the subsidy to Revenue

blackwhite

collsoft wrote: »

Exactly - expecting official confirmation over lunch

Also, if you are running a monthly payroll you might be better off on a payment date of 20th compared to the 19th

Official confirmation published now


https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/3a6ee-government-outlines-changes-to-covid-support-schemes-to-further-support-economy-and-society/

Broadly, the EWSS rates will be aligned with the rates of payment under PUP, up to €350 per week, effective from the next payroll date after 19 October, as set out below.

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

I see actually that the new rates apply from 16th October according to this press release, but perhaps the first payment is on Tuesday 27th

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/64613-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment-rates-announced-19-october-2020/

do we know how these will apply for monthly paid employees?
will they pay 2 weeks at old rate and 2 weeks at new rate for october?


edit: actually that link is for PUP and not EWSS, im wondering about EWSS

hasdanta

Hi all,

My work is closing after today due to level 5. I will have worked 13 hours this week so far, whereas I was originally rostered to work for 29 hours this week. My company has told us to not sign on for the PUP as they will continue to pay us an average of our wages over the past few months every week. However, we’ve been told that next week we are only going to get paid for the hours we worked this week (so 13 for me).

Because of level five, I’m losing out on around 16 hours this week. Am I entitled to apply for PUP or the wage subsidy scheme this week?

highgiant1985

Seve OB wrote: »

do we know how these will apply for monthly paid employees?
will they pay 2 weeks at old rate and 2 weeks at new rate for october?


edit: actually that link is for PUP and not EWSS, im wondering about EWSS

Revenue confirmed that in relation to monthly paid employees, employers will be able to claim EWSS based on the revised thresholds in respect of the full month.

collsoft

The only caveat is that it depends on your Payment Date.

If your payment date was anything between 1st October and 19th October you will get a full month at the old rates.

If your payment date is anything from the 20th October you will get a full month at the new rates

highgiant1985 wrote: »

Revenue confirmed that in relation to monthly paid employees, employers will be able to claim EWSS based on the revised thresholds in respect of the full month.

SwissToni

jos28 wrote: »

I am finding hard to get my head around the Employer qualifying criteria for EWSS. How can you predict that your sales/income will be down by 30%. EG, if you an essential retailer who will endevour to stay open and pay staff EWSS with top up. Pay weekly payroll, submit to Revenue and then reconciliation is not done until end of month
If your sales remain static (unlikely) or only drop by 25%, do you have to repay the subsidy to Revenue

Revenue really need to explain this better, I can't understand how this works either, looks like the only option is to phone them, but I have a funny feeling the don't know to well themself's.

Also it's very sly to take the 30% limit for the six months from July to December, and shut most business for "only" six weeks of the period, i would imagine a lot of business may fall just out side the threshold even if they did no turnover for the six weeks they are closed. Yet they have to declare now that they will be down 30% to claim the EWSS.
But going by all their threats of fines, interest, penalties and conviction, you can bet if you get it wrong they will come down on you like a ton of bricks.

jos28

It's a strange one alright. You would need a crystal ball to be able to predict what your sales will be by the end of month. If you submit a weekly payroll with the EWSS boxes ticked and have higher sales than anticipated what do your do ?
If you don't claim and and submit payroll without EWSS, how do you claim it back

radharc

Well we are already more than half way through the assessment period so there is good data there. For level 5 businesses will probably have a good idea of where they stand after the first week of restrictions, it should be straightforward enough then to project to the start of December. December will be a difficult month to project certainly.

I think a major cause of uncertainty now is how eligibility for EWSS will be assessed in 2021. Initially it looked as though the eligibility up to the original finish date of end March 2021 would be based on Q3 & Q4, it’s not clear now that the scheme is being extended for the full year. Hopefully the next set of revised guidelines will clarify.

jammiedodgers

Revenue to speed up payment of wage subsidies to employers

"This means EWSS will be paid on a similar basis to the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS), providing a significant positive cashflow boost for businesses," the Revenue statement said.

je551e

Is there any similar thread for the CRSS ? Does anyone have information on it? Thanks.

SwissToni

je551e wrote: »

Is there any similar thread for the CRSS ? Does anyone have information on it? Thanks.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/budget-information/2021/crss-overview-and-examples.pdf

Widdensushi

Restaurant offering to pay employees holiday time due next week even though stopping takeaway this week. Employees on the pup when holidays run out,what's the catch with this approach?

Tow

Widdensushi wrote: »

Restaurant offering to pay employees holiday time due next week even though stopping takeaway this week. Employees on the pup when holidays run out,what's the catch with this approach?

If holiday pay is high and looks like a weeks pay PUP might be automatically cancelled. They will reinstate PUP but it requires effort.

The system works like this:
DEASP sends PUP data to Revenue, Revenue sends a list back to DEASP of employees who got paid via payroll in the same week, DEASP cancels PUP and requires repayment.

Heres Johnny

I ran the TWSS for 70 employees in ireland and the furlough scheme for 75 in the UK. This week, for first time, we have cases of corona in Ireland so we need to stand down 2 guys and get them to claim enhanced illness benefit. Am I right in saying that it is not possible to top up these guys with a small increase?

secman

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I ran the TWSS for 70 employees in ireland and the furlough scheme for 75 in the UK. This week, for first time, we have cases of corona in Ireland so we need to stand down 2 guys and get them to claim enhanced illness benefit. Am I right in saying that it is not possible to top up these guys with a small increase?

The TWSS finished at the end of August, if you top their wages up it will be at your companys cost.

Tow

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I ran the TWSS for 70 employees in ireland and the furlough scheme for 75 in the UK. This week, for first time, we have cases of corona in Ireland so we need to stand down 2 guys and get them to claim enhanced illness benefit. Am I right in saying that it is not possible to top up these guys with a small increase?

Yes, But you may be now using EWSS, which is a payment to the employer. Enhanced Illness Benefit is the name as normal Illness Benefit, except they receive more money. The employees should elect to have the benefit paid directly to their own bank accounts, this saves you admin and messing around.

As with Illness Benefit you can also pay the employees while they are out ill.

head82

Tow wrote: »

If holiday pay is high and looks like a weeks pay PUP might be automatically cancelled. They will reinstate PUP but it requires effort.

The system works like this:
DEASP sends PUP data to Revenue, Revenue sends a list back to DEASP of employees who got paid via payroll in the same week, DEASP cancels PUP and requires repayment.

Is the 'holiday pay' not marked as such on payroll/payslip and therefore PUP would remain unaffected?

I ask because I have some unclaimed holiday pay due to me from before this pandemic kicked in and subsequently placed on 'lay off'. I was planning on requesting it from my employer before years end. I don't want to let it slide but if there's a chance my PUP is affected, I may just have to.