The Chinese Big Lie

2u2me

Yurt! wrote: »

Researchers at the University of Hong Kong modelled a figure of 232 thousand infections on Feb 20th.

We're getting closer to the truth there. The below article should open some eyes, including a prominent Chinese doctor slamming the Chinese Ambassador in France for peddling fluffy figures. He acknowledges many died any their deaths weren't recorded as Covid19.

https://time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/

Researchers at the Imperial College London estimate in the 11 European countries in their study that between 1.88% and 11.43% of the population already have it. That would be between 7 and 43 million people. (As of April 3rd March 28th)

http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-13-europe-npi-impact/

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

it explained the significance of identifying patient “No. Zero” and mentioned that the first reported infection case of coronavirus was on December 1, 2019 and the patient didn’t go to the seafood market, which China blamed as the starting point of the virus.


Thats even later then we thought. So the whistle blower was just a few weeks after the first case?

A refutal from the Beijing news is a refutal from the CCP. The date, December 1st, of the first reported case here was just that - the first REPORTED case. Huang YanLing would have been infected before that date but not reported as the novel coronavirus. She would not have had to visit the wet market for the virus to have begun spreading in that area allowing the seafood market to be blamed by the government. Claims by Shi Zhengli that this researcher didn't work at the lab are strange because there is a group photo of her at the Institute with the other staff. Her photo and bio were removed but her name left there on the site. Where is Huang YanLing today?

I'm not sure what is so suspicious about my backstory or motives, though.

cryptocurrency

goldbug371 wrote: »

A refutal from the Beijing news is a refutal from the CCP. The date, December 1st, of the first reported case here was just that - the first REPORTED case. Huang YanLing would have been infected before that date but not reported as the novel coronavirus. She would not have had to visit the wet market for the virus to have begun spreading in that area allowing the seafood market to be blamed by the government. Claims by Shi Zhengli that this researcher didn't work at the lab are strange because there is a group photo of her at the Institute with the other staff. Her photo and bio were removed but her name left there on the site. Where is Huang YanLing today?

I'm not sure what is so suspicious about my backstory or motives, though.

First post and the name goldbug. You do realise the current economic crisis has seen all sorts of "goldbug" nut jobs with "nutjob" views of the world come out of the woodwork. I will be watching your further posts with interest; esp if they take a political angle.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You are not allowed to be logical here. This is about chest beating nationalism and dog-whistle prejudice.

Pretty much describes most of your posts in the brexit threads.

I don't particularly blame China for the outbreak, I do think they are not being 100% honest with their numbers however.

I do find it a bit ridiculous that your pm and government, who you've described as winners, are so stuck in the brexit mind set that they wouldn't partake in an E.U. ventilator supply plan that could save British lives, and then claimed that they weren't informed of the plan.

threeball

cryptocurrency wrote: »

First post and the name goldbug. You do realise the current economic crisis has seen all sorts of "goldbug" nut jobs with "nutjob" views of the world come out of the woodwork. I will be watching your further posts with interest; esp if they take a political angle.

When the men in white coats arrive at your door later, they wont be there to take your temperature.

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

First post and the name goldbug. You do realise the current economic crisis has seen all sorts of "goldbug" nut jobs with "nutjob" views of the world come out of the woodwork. I will be watching your further posts with interest; esp if they take a political angle.

The insanity of gold as opposed to the sanity of cryptocurrency negates my point of view. I see.

cryptocurrency

threeball wrote: »

When the men in white coats arrive at your door later, they wont be there to take your temperature.

Sure bud.

Yurt2

BluePlanet wrote: »

Maybe i've missed where China invades other countries, overthrows leaders, backs uprisings etc.
Performs fly-bys on another countries borders half way round the world.
Perhaps you can elighten us?

Oh goodness, I don't know, perhaps the Chinese invasion during the Korean War, their invasion of Vietnam in 79, the Sino Indian War, the annexation of Tibet?

Their sponsorship of the Khmer Rouge and the Kim dynasty, as well as numerous African strongmen. Their dalliances with profoundly corrupt Venezuelan regime that they will defend to the end?

Their increased influence campaigns and information warfare targeting democracies?

Yeah, the communist party is sound altogether.

cryptocurrency

goldbug371 wrote: »

The insanity of gold as opposed to the sanity of cryptocurrency negates my point of view. I see.

It was a thing in 2013 when I joined. I don't jump all into it now.

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh goodness, I don't know, perhaps the Chinese invasion during the Korean War, their invasion of Vietnam in 79, the Sino Indian War, the annexation of Tibet?

Their sponsorship of the Khmer Rouge and the Kim dynasty, as well as numerous African strongmen. Their dalliances with profoundly corrupt Venezuelan regime that they will defend to the end?

Their increased influence campaigns and information warfare targeting democracies?

Yeah, the communist party is sound altogether.

They are a shower, no doubt.

Doesn't take away from the angle you are working on them in this crisis is misguided and maybe you need to look closer to home.

2u2me

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh goodness, I don't know, perhaps the Chinese invasion during the Korean War, their invasion of Vietnam in 79, the Sino Indian War, the annexation of Tibet?

Their sponsorship of the Khmer Rouge and the Kim dynasty, as well as numerous African strongmen. Their dalliances with profoundly corrupt Venezuelan regime that they will defend to the end?

Their increased influence campaigns and information warfare targeting democracies?

Yeah, the communist party is sound altogether.

They would be doing more if they could I'm sure. If they had the capabilities of the US sure as **** you would see them at it too.

Yurt2

2u2me wrote: »

Researchers at the Imperial College London estimate in the 11 European countries in their study that between 1.88% and 11.43% of the population already have it. That would be between 7 and 43 million people. (As of April 3rd March 28th)

http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-13-europe-npi-impact/

Right, like I said, the Chinese figures are politically convenient that radically undersold the virulity of the disease.

The difference being, nobody's trying to silence individuals at Imperial College London from publishing their findings.

If an equivalent Chinese researcher published their findings on social media that made the CCP look bad, they'll be getting a knock on the door.

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It was a thing in 2013 when I joined. I don't jump all into it now.

The 371 in my name is the price in USD that I first bought back in October 2003 as it happens but it is a slight diversion from the topic of discussion for which I apologise, but you did question my integrity/sanity.

2u2me

Yurt! wrote: »

Right, like I said, the Chinese figures are politically convenient that radically undersold the virulity of the disease.

That's not my takeway from it at all. We also have low rates of 'official figures'. Our official figures are also an order of magnitutude lower than the projections because testing is pretty expensive and difficult logistically right now.

They had a scheme in South Korea which seemed to work well, if you want a test you pay for it, but if you test positive you get a refund. Worked to weed out the hypocondriacs.

If those projections are right then the death rate may be much lower than expected. Fingers crossed.

BluePlanet

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh goodness, I don't know, perhaps the Chinese invasion during the Korean War, their invasion of Vietnam in 79, the Sino Indian War, the annexation of Tibet?

Their sponsorship of the Khmer Rouge and the Kim dynasty, as well as numerous African strongmen. Their dalliances with profoundly corrupt Venezuelan regime that they will defend to the end?

Their increased influence campaigns and information warfare targeting democracies?

Yeah, the communist party is sound altogether.

Is that bold bit a joke?
There has never been a country called Tibet.

Everything else are all places in their geographic area of influence.
Rather like USA in Central America huh?

Alliances with Venezuela?
Wow, countries have allies!

cryptocurrency

2u2me wrote: »

That's not my takeway from it at all. We also have low rates of 'official figures'. Our official figures are also an order of magnitutude lower than the projections because testing is pretty expensive and difficult logistically right now.

They had a scheme in South Korea which seemed to work well, if you want a test you pay for it, but if you test positive you get a refund. Worked to weed out the hypocondriacs.

If those projections are right then the death rate may be much lower than expected. Fingers crossed.

Stop being rational.

goldbug371

2u2me wrote: »

That's not my takeway from it at all. We also have low rates of 'official figures'. Our official figures are also an order of magnitutude lower than the projections because testing is pretty expensive and difficult logistically right now.

They had a scheme in South Korea which seemed to work well, if you want a test you pay for it, but if you test positive you get a refund. Worked to weed out the hypocondriacs.

If those projections are right then the death rate may be much lower than expected. Fingers crossed.

I think the difference here is the Chinese government purposefully hides the figures for case totals and deaths for political gain. The Irish government would openly admit that not all cases are being tested as they are not trying to keep information from the public.

Wibbs

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I just don't see how they knew what they were looking at. There was this "flu" in Italy before christmas and it was cleary Covid19 and the Italians just looked at it. .

Eh. No. That's been latched onto by our Chinese government friends to take away focus from them, at home and abroad. Just like the it was American troops that caused this. Anything to deflect blame from China. Other nations most certainly pull similar down the years, but the Chinese are masters of it, even down to the cultural level of all good was invented here, all bad is "foreign". That's been in play in Chinese culture for centuries. Hell they still have many exalted scientists that dismiss the Out of Africa theory for the origin of modern humans, instead saying modern humans came from China/evolved locally into Chinese people.

The locals may buy it, but only a nutter would buy it outside of media controlled China. The genetics of the virus itself checked in multiple labs around the world, including in China BTW shows a rate of mutation that would be pretty much impossible to have had it outside China before Christmas, certainly not in the number required in Italy to cause a blip in pneumonia cases. We also had a similar blip here.

markodaly

BluePlanet wrote: »

Is that bold bit a joke?
There has never been a country called Tibet.

Well, there was never a country called Ireland either until recently, but the technicalities aside, what China did in Tibet is classic colonsiam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet_(1950%E2%80%93present)

I for one hope that this is the Western world unite against China and take them down a peg or three.
For now, we enjoyed their cheap factories and their market, but at what cost?
Billions if not Trillions in economic damage now.

A few years in the economic wilderness for China will send them back a few decades and could even topple the CCP.

Captcha

markodaly wrote: »

Well, there was never a country called Ireland either until recently, but the technicalities aside, what China did in Tibet is classic colonsiam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet_(1950%E2%80%93present)

I for one hope that this is the Western world unite against China and take them down a peg or three.
For now, we enjoyed their cheap factories and their market, but at what cost?
Billions if not Trillions in economic damage now.

A few years in the economic wilderness for China will send them back a few decades and could even topple the CCP.

Decouple from CCP and sanction their members.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

Well, there was never a country called Ireland either until recently, but the technicalities aside, what China did in Tibet is classic colonsiam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet_(1950%E2%80%93present)

I for one hope that this is the Western world unite against China and take them down a peg or three.
For now, we enjoyed their cheap factories and their market, but at what cost?
Billions if not Trillions in economic damage now.

A few years in the economic wilderness for China will send them back a few decades and could even topple the CCP.

To best of my knowledge,china is country essentially propping up.the US and its insane borrowings??

Would china not just pull the plug and crash.whole world econmy in such a scenario??



Like im.all for curtailing mindless consumerism,but 1 in 8 people in world are chinese and have access to cash (not credit),they arent going anywhere for a long time....any country i ever been to,the chinese communities are far and away the richest

goldbug371

markodaly wrote: »

Well, there was never a country called Ireland either until recently, but the technicalities aside, what China did in Tibet is classic colonsiam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet_(1950%E2%80%93present)

I for one hope that this is the Western world unite against China and take them down a peg or three.
For now, we enjoyed their cheap factories and their market, but at what cost?
Billions if not Trillions in economic damage now.

A few years in the economic wilderness for China will send them back a few decades and could even topple the CCP.

My wife is from Taiwan. Another grey area when talking about national sovereignty and the CCP.

cryptocurrency

goldbug371 wrote: »

My wife is from Taiwan. Another grey area when talking about national sovereignty and the CCP.

I know a few Chinese from Taiwan and although the stance has softened they would still be KMT voters and view China as a whole.

2u2me

It's just interesting that these stories started to emerge last week; like it was a concerted effort of propoganda. The op started this thread 4 days ago. If the big lie was the initial cover-up; why so long in creating the thread.

Just last week the American numbers overtook the Chinese numbers. That's when we started seeing all this spin.

You must give even your enemy their dues when its deserved.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

To best of my knowledge,china is country essentially propping up.the US and its insane borrowings??

That is mostly a myth.

Would china not just pull the plug and crash.whole world econmy in such a scenario??

And what have we at the moment??

I get the sense that there is a lot of anger that China hide and duped the entire world over this virus. Do you think the EU are likely to forget about China's deception and all their dead once this is over? Not likely. There will be massive public pressure to act once this is over. Not act in some world war, but act to bring China to heal economically as the state and CCP cannot be trusted thus should be ostracised internationally. They do not act like other states as we have seen to our cost.

[
Like im.all for curtailing mindless consumerism,but 1 in 8 people in world are chinese and have access to cash (not credit),they arent going anywhere for a long time....any country i ever been to,the chinese communities are far and away the richest

China is hugely indebted. I suggest read up on China, its fantasy economics and 'growth' figures, they are not as all powerful as one may think. In fact they are very weak in many ways and a co-ordinated international response would topple them (the CCP) imo.

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I know a few Chinese from Taiwan and although the stance has softened they would still be KMT voters and view China as a whole.

It is correct that fundamentally many Taiwanese would view China as a whole, but very very few would choose to have that under communist rule. That is why there are so many who prefer independence.

markodaly

goldbug371 wrote: »

My wife is from Taiwan. Another grey area when talking about national sovereignty and the CCP.

Taiwan I would see as the same as Japan and South Korea. A nation that can be trusted and would be more open than China and certainly more democratic.

goldbug371

2u2me wrote: »

It's just interesting that these stories started to emerge last week; like it was a concerted effort of propoganda. The op started this thread 4 days ago. If the big lie was the initial cover-up; why so long in creating the thread.

Just last week the American numbers overtook the Chinese numbers. That's when we started seeing all this spin.

You must give even your enemy their dues when its deserved.

It's in response to the recent push by China to shift blame to the West

2u2me

goldbug371 wrote: »

It's in response to the recent push by China to shift blame to the West

Yeah I've noticed that too and it's worrying. Chinese media blaming foreigners for the virus returning is pretty disgusting. Can only make people more xenophobic.

2u2me

markodaly wrote: »

Taiwan I would see as the same as Japan and South Korea. A nation that can be trusted and would be more open than China and certainly more democratic.

What? Is that a joke? There has never been a country called Taiwan!!!!(:D)