The Chinese Big Lie

cryptocurrency

goldbug371 wrote: »

I edited it to be more accurate indeed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ

Didn't watch it all, doesn't mention eradicate anyone

I do recall that Muslim eatieries are always the go to spots all over China if you want a good fed.

2u2me

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Didn't watch it all, doesn't mention eradicate anyone

I do recall that Muslim eatieries are always the go to spots all over China if you want a good fed.

Its more like assimilating, like the borg from Star Trek.

Sinicization of Tibet

cryptocurrency

2u2me wrote: »

Its more like assimilating, like the borg from Star Trek.

Sinicization of Tibet

Yeah I looked into that a bit. It's a trade off. We can keep Tibet as is or open it up to the world.

The new schools, hospitals, transport infrastructure, economy, life expectancy and literacy but that all comes at a price.

I do find that rail they built fascinating and would love to travel it one day when this all calms down.

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Didn't watch it all, doesn't mention eradicate anyone

I do recall that Muslim eatieries are always the go to spots all over China if you want a good fed.

They are eradicating the Uyghurs' religion and culture and not the food - some might think that's okay

goldbug371

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Yeah I looked into that a bit. It's a trade off. We can keep Tibet as is or open it up to the world.

The new schools, hospitals, transport infrastructure, economy, life expectancy and literacy but that all comes at a price.

I do find that rail they built fascinating and would love to travel it one day when this all calms down.

Should that not be up to the locals to decide?

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

They have problems, like many countries but the US is not as weak as people think.
Everyday we have internet keyboard warriors proclaiming the end of American. Yet, they are still by all intents and purposes No.1 in many areas, including militarily.

The military is only thing propping em up,they are running deficits that even the craziest shinner wouldnt propose,all while proclaiming venezual econmic illterates :pac: ......this cant continue indefinetly and will catch up with em,and may be for another thread,but ireland should begin to limit our exposure to the mess that,that will be

I would like to see an end to all authoritarian regimes and China is included in that. If this is the beginning of the end of the CCP, then I am happy.

What political party took over after the Nazi party fell in Germany?

I may be wrong,but i suspect.the CCP may be more difficult to eradicate and influence to remove than the nazis who were only 12 years in power??

Your idea is not without merit like,but seems impossible to implement without civil war erupting in china?....surely it would be easier to clear a path to power for more middle of road members of the CCP,

LessOutragePlz

goldbug371 wrote: »

They are eradicating the Uyghurs' religion and culture and not the food - some might think that's okay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmId2ZP3h0c

Oh that's still a school it just happens to have a bit of barbed wire on the wall but, they are still free to leave whenever they want.

2u2me

goldbug371 wrote: »

Should that not be up to the locals to decide?

What makes you think something crazy like that! Just look at Hong Kong. They don't care what the locals think they do what they like.

goldbug371

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmId2ZP3h0c

Oh that's still a school it just happens to have a bit of barbed wire on the wall but, they are still free to leave whenever they want.

That school looks so lovely, and everyone is so happy just like the North Koreans. What are we doing wrong?

BanditLuke

News piece from sky news Australia about the Chinese big lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmUxSlOoUE

Good to see China being exposed for this cover up. Well worth the watch.

millb

BanditLuke wrote: »

News piece from sky news Australia about the Chinese big lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmUxSlOoUE

Good to see China being exposed for this cover up. Well worth the watch.

At the start we see that China messed-up and then locked-up.

But most of that piece shows how the "West" under-estimated things and then messed-up..

The next article will be how China is now the country getting the kudos and shipping aid (PPE Ventilators) to the west or creaming $£ for poor quality stuff

..... Clearly Russia and China play off the fake-news / political chaos and conflicts that happen in USA / UK / and possibly EU / Auz .....

China will be a player in everything... same as USA ... good / bad / chaotic / controlling / influencing / messing-up / destroying the environment / building the best renewables / telecom systems etc. etc.

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

The reason I think it belongs in conspiracy is because there has been no evidence supplied that they are fudging their numbers.

What kind of evidence would be acceptable? Let's face it, people would (and should) question anything that came from China, and you're not going to get whistleblowers. Being a traitor carries the death sentence and it doesn't stop with that person, but extends to their whole family.

They took draconian measures much sooner than the rest of the world, why would you and most others assume they must be lying? Why can these draconian measures not work at stopping the spread of this virus?

Because stopping the spread of the virus is an impossibility. Even now, months after it's identification, there is serious confusion about how the virus is transmitted and how to detect it. There is still a lot of vagueness about silent carriers, or about people who become reinfected, or the failure to test people properly.

Fact is, this virus is not going to be contained completely. It can only be slowed down, until a vaccine is created, and distributed. Even in China, the virus spread hasn't been stopped completely. New cases are popping up reported by different provinces rather than the governments overall figure.

McGiver wrote: »

We need to differentiate between Chinese political elite (the regime) and Chinese folks. Similar goes for Russians, generally nice people, but the political elite is absolutely brutal and despicable. I will criticise both regimes / elites as I will any other regime involved in human rights abuses or abuses of power - including the US.

Here's the thing though. Many Chinese people are extremely insular and ignorant. In the countryside you'll find many areas which worship the party the same way as in Mao's time. Generally speaking, in universities, you'll find the bastions of party support... so while defending the common person is important, it's worth considering that hundreds of millions of people support the party completely. They don't care about "foreigners", and they view any area within China's borders as "theirs".

Spot on regarding the system, although if you look around East Asia then I could imagine they could eventually morph into Singapore-like quasi-democratic hybrid regime, (essentially a one party state just not communist).

I'm not very familiar with Singapore's politics. Chinese people tend to want authoritarian systems. An extreme minority might want a democratic system, but whenever you find a business or organisation created privately, the leadership has absolute power over employees. There is something in Chinese people that says either we want to be dominated (and have choice removed), or to dominate their neighbors. So.. I don't see democracy as being the answer.

Wibbs

markodaly wrote: »

Perhaps, but in the process they killed 1/5 of the population and tried to eradticate Tibetan culture.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing at its finest practiced the the CCP.

The world was one time full of empires, but now we have moved to the notion of independent nation states. Tibet in my opinion should be an independent country, just like Nepal and Bhutan. Just because the Chineese once ruled it back in the day doest excuse that. If it were the case, sure Britain can claim that its OK for them to reconquer half of Africa and Ireland....

Oh I agree M and we have, in the West, but even in the West that notion of independent nation states came out of the fall of the various European overseas empires. It would have been an alien notion to the same various European powers two centuries ago. To the "Chinese Imperial Mind"(tm) that notion is still alien, because although they've been invaded and had a few new imperial dynasties in place over the last two thousand years their empire never fell. It was still the "Empire of China".

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

There is something in Chinese people that says either we want to be dominated (and have choice removed), or to dominate their neighbors. So.. I don't see democracy as being the answer.

This is very much a soft form of Western philosophy as control, even cultural imperialism. We invented democracy and prefer individualism over the community and a separation of church and state and fought long to get that. America's cultural philosophy that was directly influenced by 17th century French revolutionary thought sums it up quite well down to today. It's well dug into us.

So to the European mind the notion that many Muslim cultures might want and are only to happy to live under a caliphate type system just doesn't click with us, and we figure they need "fixing". Same for in this case a Chinese culture that is into social compliance, the family name, the emperor/party and happy with that, doesn't sit well with us and again we want to "fix" it. Hell, look at those family names. Here in Europe your Christian name comes before your family name, In China and in some other Asian cultures your family name comes first. Here you'd Sean O'Reilly, in China you'd be O'Reilly Sean. Shows the importance placed. Confucian though places family and state at the top and elevates compliance to both to a virtue. The European mind goes WTF?? to that.

So yeah for all the more recent PC stuff in the western mind we're still just as "imperial" and culturally dismissive in many ways.

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The only smokescreen being used in this thread is by the 2 of ye using how Europe and the US handled this outbreak. To cover up the fact that China lied about the initial outbreak and covered it up which has inevitably led to more deaths and infections than if they had been honest front the beginning of all of this.

I find the logic interesting. When has China not lied? Why are you holding them up to some gold standard that they have somehow failed to meet?

They're a secretive regime. Information is power, and releasing information about the virus would have been to show responsibility for it. And honestly, considering the range of reactions by Europeans about China and the virus, they weren't far wrong about the blame game.

As for covering it up resulting in more deaths... anything to prove that? I mean it. In the weeks following the red flagging of the virus, what measures have been discovered to halt or cure the virus? Not much. Their holding on to the information caused deaths in their own country, rather than abroad.... considering the lack of response by western nations even after they knew the seriousness of the virus.

Was China wrong to behave as they did? Definitely. But lets apply some balance here. It's not as if western countries could or would have done anything differently. The virus was dismissed for ages by western countries as being an Asian problem. Even when infections were found in the US, Trumps administration dismissed the threat of it... and in hindsight, we find out that the first infection appeared in the US in mid January... Where was their massive and effective response, considering they have the most resources, and the best funded virus reaction teams in the world?

Blaming China, sure, I get it. But passing everything on to them, and dismissing the rather negligent attitudes of Western nations? Meh.

bob mcbob

An interesting point was made in the Times today.

On Jan 23rd, Hubei was locked down from the rest of China in order to try and contain the virus in Hubei. However the Times said that even at this time, there were still regular international flights from Wuhan to Europe & USA. These continued into Feb in some cases.

This should be easy to prove or discredit.

cryptocurrency

bob mcbob wrote: »

An interesting point was made in the Times today.

On Jan 23rd, Hubei was locked down from the rest of China in order to try and contain the virus in Hubei. However the Times said that even at this time, there were still regular international flights from Wuhan to Europe & USA. These continued into Feb in some cases.

This should be easy to prove or discredit.

Were they not evac flights from at least the start of feb

2u2me

BanditLuke wrote: »

News piece from sky news Australia about the Chinese big lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmUxSlOoUE

Good to see China being exposed for this cover up. Well worth the watch.

Italy had a 'Hug a Chinese person' day to 'virtue signal' that they weren't racist? That really cracked me up. :pac:

FVP3

bob mcbob wrote: »

An interesting point was made in the Times today.

On Jan 23rd, Hubei was locked down from the rest of China in order to try and contain the virus in Hubei. However the Times said that even at this time, there were still regular international flights from Wuhan to Europe & USA. These continued into Feb in some cases.

This should be easy to prove or discredit.

it is true but it's hardly up to the Chinese to stop flights into Europe and the US. Its the other way around, and the US did that in late Jan, about the only sensible thing that Trump has done.

cryptocurrency

2u2me wrote: »

Italy had a 'Hug a Chinese person' day to 'virtue signal' that they weren't racist? That really cracked me up. :pac:

a couple of hugs wouldn't dispel them rumours. Ever been to an italian football match?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_3Nol8Fq6A

Plenty of this now in Ireland too.

FVP3

2u2me wrote: »

How many of those different cultures are they trying to eradicate?

None. Although China has always assimilated other cultures.

The real assimilating ideology of the world is the Americanist idea that the entire world should look like America.

biko

The rest of the world should just cancel their debts to China. It should even out what China has cost us, in economics and suffering.

4068ac1elhodqr

A uk think-thank (Henry Jackson Society) suggests Boris should chase China for damages.
The figure they calculated is a modest: £351bn
Payable via check, wire, bullions or cash deposits.

For the G7 as a group, the figure calculated is £3.2tr

Ireland should also email over an e-invoice, €100bn or so should do.
Standard 90days payment terms etc etc.

cryptocurrency

biko wrote: »

The rest of the world should just cancel their debts to China. It should even out what China has cost us, in economics and suffering.

China, all these people, China, as a whole...alright there, you might be in the wrong forum here

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

First post, I am highly suspicious of your back story and motives.

You seem focused on making this about a window in december and the CCP.

Smarter people then you can see the wood from the trees.

Well, I'm not a new poster, and he's fairly accurate about the CCP. They can't be trusted. (I don't trust America either TBF, but that's for different reasons). They did downplay the danger of the virus, although I'd argue that they didn't really understand what they had. It's easy to look back in hindsight to dismiss a flu bug and latch on to Covid.

I disagree with him about Italy. They responded, but in an almost reluctant manner. As have all the European countries, but that's "reasonable" considering politicians don't like making hard decisions that might affect their next election. But the seriousness of the virus was known before the first case in Italy, and it was dismissed as being a problem for others to deal with.

As for the conspiracy theory regarding Wuhan. It's possible. The CCP has a rather low respect for human life, and anything that narrows the gap between US power and theirs would be followed up. The US, after all, has the largest biological arsenal in the world. Narrowing the gap in understanding would be important to them. I see the reasons, but there's no evidence. It's all hearsay, so... I'm not going to accept it easily.

17 years in China? Now, that's rare for an expat. I've met very few expats who live there longer than 10 years (like me)... so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Most people lose their patience with Chinese lifestyles or pollution. Not completely disbelieving but I'd have to see more posts showing an understanding of Chinese culture before accepting it completely.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You are not allowed to be logical here. This is about chest beating nationalism and dog-whistle prejudice. You need to blame China for everything.

Yup, emotional rants are all important. Although, TBF, that's been going on long before the virus came along..

Beechwoodspark

Theo Rich Varsity wrote: »

A uk think-thank (Henry Jackson Society) suggests Boris should chase China for damages.
The figure they calculated is a modest: £351bn
Payable via check, wire, bullions or cash deposits.

For the G7 as a group, the figure calculated is £3.2tr

Ireland should also email over an e-invoice, €100bn or so should do.
Standard 90days payment terms etc etc.

I saw this also in paper

Every country affected by this horrendous virus should invoice China.

I would support Ireland joining in this effort and sending China a bill for 100 billion euro.

It might make China close down the awful disgusting wet markets for a start.

FVP3

markodaly wrote: »

You mean colonised?

What's the obsession with China in the 19th C? Of course it was an empire in its history, but largely destroyed and controlled by Western adventurism ( and in the case of the British -- drug pushing) by mid 19C. A rebellion against this saw a motley crew of European colonial powers advance into the country raping and looting it.

The real genocidal colonialism of the 19C was the American Empire's movement West into native american territory.

cryptocurrency

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I saw this also in paper

Every country affected by this horrendous virus should invoice China.

I would support Ireland joining in this effort and sending China a bill for 100 billion euro.

It might make China close down the awful disgusting wet markets for a start.

are you an actual child

You could open up cans of worms here that would bankrupt the G7

FVP3

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I would support Ireland joining in this effort and sending China a bill for 100 billion euro.

It might make China close down the awful disgusting wet markets for a start.

There's a hint of "Skibbereen Eagle has its eye on the Czar" about that statement.

If they don't pay, will we send over the coast guard?

FVP3

cryptocurrency wrote: »

are you an actual child

You could open up cans of worms here that would bankrupt the G7

They have no idea how integrated China is in the system. How big its economy is. How any trade war would kill the west probably faster than China.

As I said before, I was anti globalist years ago, now that the the chickens are literally coming home to roost its funny to see the supporters of the US -- the major ideological supporter of globalisation -- frothing at the mouth at the consequences.