The Chinese Big Lie

Yurt2

2u2me wrote: »

I'm comparing the probability of this virus originating from a lab 'naturally' to a meteor strike yes.

Weasel words. If we all knew how bat-borne viruses brought in from the wild behaved in laboratory conditions, there would be no need for multi-million dollar labs researching them.

And I doubt we'd find this expertise on boards.

Again, I'm not saying the virus definitely emanated from the lab, but your comparison with a meteor strike is preposterous.

cryptocurrency

thebaz wrote: »

I wish I shared your confidence of its origins, you are probably right , but I'd say thers a 20% chance it origins are from lab - I don't share your confidence in the CCP , they have been far from truthfiul, particularly at the early critical stage in January. and the stats are really strange in comparison to Europe and America , why did virus not spread throughout China in the early days is a mystery to me, when ther was no Wuhan lockdown (before to end of January)

didn't spread? i thought it spread and killed zillions and the chinese covered it up? Which is it?

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

Sure, it's completely impossible that there could have been a screw-up in the lab dealing with the same family of viruses that was under scrutiny for underskilled staff in 2018.

Completely barmy, right up there with moon lasers and Hitler still being alive in Argentina. Crazy stuff altogether. Harvard edcuated Microbiology experts are nutso too. Met one once, bonkers.

"I'd like to bet the lot on pangolins Chris."

- "You sure?"

"Absolutely, I hate Dominic Raab."

Dominic Raab didn't say anything, It was just a view vague words on investigation on the science and things not being the same.

I don't think any nation will disagree with that.

2u2me

Yurt! wrote: »

Weasel words. If we all knew how bat-borne viruses brought in from the wild behaved in laboratory conditions, there would be no need for multi-million dollar labs researching them.

And I doubt we'd find this expertise on boards.

Again, I'm not saying the virus definitely emanated from the lab, but your comparison with a meteor strike is preposterous.

Perhaps if that lab hadn't been doing what it was doing, we might know less then we know today.

Apparently we are quite a bit advanced into a vaccine because of previous research into corona virus'.

Be careful what you wish for.

Yurt2

2u2me wrote: »

Perhaps if that lab hadn't been doing what it was doing, we might know less then we know today.

Apparently we are quite a bit advanced into a vaccine because of previous research into corona virus'.

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm not objecting to labs of any kind.

I'm puzzled why people are comparing the probability of a f*ck-up when handling extremely dangerous and unpredictable coronaviruses in a research setting to that of a meteor strike.

That's what's silly.

People are dying in their tens of thousands worldwide and folks on boards are arguing it's not worth a serious look, for what I can only guess are political reasons.

cryptocurrency

FVP3 wrote: »

It is extraordinary claims that merit extraordinary proof. Reading from your beloved neo conservative websites, or Trump, isn't sufficient.

here is me posting this for the 4th time I reckon.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

and

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

While the analyses above suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may bind human ACE2 with high affinity, computational analyses predict that the interaction is not ideal7 and that the RBD sequence is different from those shown in SARS-CoV to be optimal for receptor binding7,11. Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation

Yurt is not a neo con. He is not smart enough to be a neo con. A neo con would see the merits of implying it could have been from a Lab in Wuhan without saying anything they could be called out on or having a smoking gun. Yurt is audience for such drivel. Thanks how it works.

I have zero issue with Yurt being a conspiracy theorist, they are funny. Anti Vaccine, flat earth, fake dinosaurs, Elvis on the moon, water making the frogs gay, tsunami machines, crop circles and the alien abductions in Kerry. It's all good fun.

Justice for Yurt.

Beechwoodspark

Beyond bizarre that some are seeking to downplay the lab theory.

Are ppl aware of the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

cryptocurrency

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Beyond bizarre that some are seeking to downplay the lab theory.

Are ppl aware of the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

it needs some creditble people bringing forward some evidence. Not loons online repeating proven loons in the fringe media.

At the moment, all these virus experts who story these viruses are not agreeing with the Jim Corr types

Yurt2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Yurt is not a neo con. He is not smart enough to be a neo con. A neo con would see the merits of implying it could have been from a Lab in Wuhan without saying anything they could be called out on or having a smoking gun. Yurt is audience for such drivel. Thanks how it works.

I have zero issue with Yurt being a conspiracy theorist, they are funny. Anti Vaccine, flat earth, fake dinosaurs, Elvis on the moon, water making the frogs gay, tsunami machines, crop circles and the alien abductions in Kerry. It's all good fun.

Justice for Yurt.

You're a regular Rhodes scholar yourself crypto.

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

You're a regular Rhodes scholar yourself crypto.

I am busy doing stuff, you know. I send the old response to you because I need you to feel appreciated.

Top tip, type on the phone and take no notice of the haters. I don't. I'm just right.


What time is the next Gemma O'Doherty live stream on this crisis? I am sure a few on here get text alerts.

FVP3

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, you cant be serious? The lab's entire purpose was to study samples of both existing known strains of viruses and novel bat-borne viruses that the chief scientist was well-known for seeking out from Yunnan.

You're being absolutely ridiculous here. I have stuff to do, I'm off.

Enjoy the pangolin hunt. Don't bet the house on it though.

I am merely echoing your ridiculousness. You admit - since you cant fight the science - that this was not a lab grown virus. So now you think that is was found in the wild but when exactly? A few years ago? Last year?

Then it was brought into the lab for study. Apparently it wasn't that infectious when out in the wild the first time since there was no epidemic, it was only when re-released that the epidemic started. Thats crazy talk.

And where did the epidemic start? The frist cluster was clearly the wet market, where the first few cases were from, as reported here - the actual link to the WHO first report on the virus ( the one the US denies ever seeing).

https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/

Enjoy the pangolin hunt. Don't bet the house on it though

Like a lot of your "funny" sign offs this has no relevance to any point anybody has made.

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

If a bookie took bets I'd lay my house.

It would be a foolish bet because you have no basis to form any probability mechanics.

The lab in Wuhan deals with the research of viruses. Since it's a state lab, it would be following international safety measures in the containment and study of such viruses.

The US has more labs regarding the study of viruses than anyone else in the world. There have been containment breaks in the past, but those breaks have caused all labs around the world to increase their safety measures. Same with the issues with SARS which forced all labs to increase their containment protocols.

There have been no prior examples of viruses escaping from this lab in Wuhan, nor any evidence provided to show that their operations were sub-standard.

So.. a foolish bet.

In spite of the many claims on this thread, about the virus being weaponized, or that it escaped from a lab, no evidence has been provided. Just opinions on articles by experts who aren't anywhere near Wuhan, or by people who have no direct knowledge of how the lab operated.

It could all be true. I accept that... but this isn't about waiting until we know more. This is about spreading unfounded rumors...

To analogize it:

Why bother? The facts are pretty obvious. You have nothing to base your opinion on except for wishful thinking.

FVP3

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Beyond bizarre that some are seeking to downplay the lab theory.

Are ppl aware of the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

oh, I didn't realise there was a Wuhan Institute of Virology when I posted the scientific link about how this wasn't a lab based virus, or argued with Yurt about how stupid the idea was about how the virus was re-released from that lab.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Convinced now.

FVP3

Here is the first Wuhan report on the virus, from which the W.H.O. produced its Jan 5th report.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwjw.wuhan.gov.cn%2Ffront%2Fweb%2FshowDetail%2F2019123108989

Dec 31st, about two months before Trump called it all a hoax.

cryptocurrency

City with 20m in metro area has public lab shocker.

The notoriously secretive Chinese looking at Bio weapons in one of it's most public labs.......oh right.

What time is Gemma on?

Yurt2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

City with 20m in metro area has public lab shocker.

The notoriously secretive Chinese looking at Bio weapons in one of it's most public labs.......oh right.

What time is Gemma on?

Have you been reading the thread at all crypto? Pop a Ritalin there and start paying attention.

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

Have you been reading the thread at all crypto? Pop a Ritalin there and start paying attention.

nah, it's boring reading tin foil hat tripe.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be a foolish bet because you have no basis to form any probability mechanics.

The lab in Wuhan deals with the research of viruses. Since it's a state lab, it would be following international safety measures in the containment and study of such viruses.

The US has more labs regarding the study of viruses than anyone else in the world. There have been containment breaks in the past, but those breaks have caused all labs around the world to increase their safety measures. Same with the issues with SARS which forced all labs to increase their containment protocols.

There have been no prior examples of viruses escaping from this lab in Wuhan, nor any evidence provided to show that their operations were sub-standard.

So.. a foolish bet.

In spite of the many claims on this thread, about the virus being weaponized, or that it escaped from a lab, no evidence has been provided. Just opinions on articles by experts who aren't anywhere near Wuhan, or by people who have no direct knowledge of how the lab operated.

It could all be true. I accept that... but this isn't about waiting until we know more. This is about spreading unfounded rumors...



Why bother? The facts are pretty obvious. You have nothing to base your opinion on except for wishful thinking.

What opinion is it you think I have? Judging by your response you've mis-interepreted me somewhere.

You seem to be supporting my case, not refuting it.

wakka12

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Beyond bizarre that some are seeking to downplay the lab theory.

Are ppl aware of the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

Just, there is no proof of it. And why does it matter? I dont see why they would realease it on purpose, if it is for terrorism then surel theyd release it elsewhere in a foreign country, and if it was accidential well then so what, what can we do now, it was a tragedy we just have to deal with now.

Not downplaying, rather I just dont see what is so significant about it.

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

What opinion is it you think I have? Judging by your response you've mis-interepreted me somewhere.

You seem to be supporting my case, not refuting it.

I said it was a foolish bet. I wasn't refuting your belief.

Kivaro

2u2me wrote: »

The hilarious thing is that the Nature article that you are referring to has added this tagline to the front of their page perhaps you missed it



https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787


Too easy; next??

There is nothing hilarious about this topic at all, and the fact you use that word in this discussion once again prompts caution.
I read the report and the tag line was glaring, as are the words "most likely".
Until the proof is conclusive, to definitely rule out the lab is dangerous and biased.

A number of strange posts/posters on this thread.
The line "doth protest too much, methinks" is definitely coming across by some of the pro-CPC-viewpoint posters.

Yurt2

wakka12 wrote: »

Just, there is no proof of it. And why does it matter? I dont see why they would realease it on purpose, if it is for terrorism then surel theyd release it elsewhere in a foreign country, and if it was accidential well then so what, what can we do now, it was a tragedy we just have to deal with now.

Not downplaying, rather I just dont see what is so significant about it.

You're quite correct in one way, it's rather academic where it came from. But to see the mental gymnastics underway with people refusing to entertain the possibility that the only BSL-4 lab in the country studying deadly viruses might have had a boo-boo in a city overcome with a deadly virus.

People even invoking Occam's Razor, when if you employ it, it probably would occur to you: "Oh sh*t, there's a big f*ck-off lab with bat-origin viruses in it, I wonder could it have anything to do with the bat-origin virus that's killing everyone?"

Once again, I'm not even going down the road that it's certainly the origin of the virus, or even the most likely. But we know so little about where it came from, that only the most boneheaded would rule it out.

We have someone here rabbiting on about Jim Corr. He's more like crazy old Jim than he knows.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

I said it was a foolish bet. I wasn't refuting your belief.

Care to place a wager with me?

Yurt2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

nah, it's boring reading tin foil hat tripe.

I got it that you haven't been paying attention, as no one has been talking about bio-weapons you complete sausage.

2u2me

Kivaro wrote: »

There is nothing hilarious about this topic at all, and the fact you use that word in this discussion once again prompts caution.
I read the report and the tag line was glaring, as are the words "most likely".
Until the proof is conclusive, to definitely rule out the lab is dangerous and biased.

A number of strange posts/posters on this thread.
The line "doth protest too much, methinks" is definitely coming across by some of the pro-CPC-viewpoint posters.

It's hilarious that the proof you supplied for the claim you were making refuted the claim you were making. I guess humour is subjective.

Would it be biased and dangerous to also rule out that aliens might have sent this virus to us by meteroite? They might be trying to start an intergallactic war with us, we shouldn't rule it out.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

There is nothing hilarious about this topic at all, and the fact you use that word in this discussion once again prompts caution.
I read the report and the tag line was glaring, as are the words "most likely".
Until the proof is conclusive, to definitely rule out the lab is dangerous and biased.

Rubbish. You make it sound like the people pushing the lab angles are unbiased and being perfectly reasonable.

There has been no evidence provided beyond some remarks by scientists that it could possibly maybe have been released from a lab, or that it might possibly maybe have been some kind of weaponised virus.

Most likely doesn't offer any real degree of credibility since it's still based on a servere lack of evidence.

Let me put it this way. Ebola most likely comes from a number sources, which have been investigated for over 30 years.. but they still haven't proven the origin of Ebola or exactly how original transmission occurred.

And yet, we're supposed to accept posters pushing the lab angle, when there hasn't been any decent (or non-political) investigation of the origins of the virus. So.. nah.

A number of strange posts/posters on this thread.
The line "doth protest too much, methinks" is definitely coming across by some of the pro-CPC-viewpoint posters.

Why not protest or disagree with something so illogical? Your line could easily applied to those who push the angle regardless of the lack of evidence to support the theory.

I find it interesting that people who refuse to agree with conspiracy theories must be pro-CCP.. I argue on many threads about China, since I live there, and I'm not even remotely pro-CCP. I am appreciative of the complexities of the both the nation, and the general situation though.

It's more of this dismissal of other peoples opinions by labeling them or boxing them into a set of unreasonable beliefs. After all, anyone who supports/agrees with the CCP is unreasonable.. so therefore anyone who doesn't accept the these unproven theories must also be unreasonable, biased, etc. :rolleyes:

BanditLuke

Tensions are definitely increasing between the two nations.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6826285/china-nuclear-weapons-test-explosion/

BanditLuke

China's Chernobyl

https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/china-coronavirus-open-letter/

Not good at all.

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

There has been no evidence provided beyond some remarks by scientists that it could possibly maybe have been released from a lab, or that it might possibly maybe have been some kind of weaponised virus.

Most likely doesn't offer any real degree of credibility since it's still based on a servere lack of evidence.

Let me put it this way. Ebola most likely comes from a number sources, which have been investigated for over 30 years.. but they still haven't proven the origin of Ebola or exactly how original transmission occurred

All well and good, but if there was an Ebola outbreak in Carlow town and it happened to host a lab screwing around with rare-viruses, please don't tell me that your mind wouldn't turn to said lab.

And to address the bolded, no one on the thread is pushing the bio-weapon angle.

There's also a severe lack of evidence for the wet-market theory truth be told, bar the circumstantial. I'm not ruling that out either btw.

This story has a long way to run yet, so to throw down an anchor and completely rule out a lab accident as some sort of looney toons theory may just come back to bite some posters in the ass. You never know.

12trackmind

BanditLuke wrote: »

China's Chernobyl

https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/china-coronavirus-open-letter/

Not good at all.

Some heart-breaking stuff in there.

In a recent video message a young student called Zhang Wenbin reflected on his evolution from an uncritical CCP supporter to a critical citizen with a conscience: "Since I scaled the Great Firewall, I gradually came to the realization that the Chinese Communist Party has extended its dragon claws into every corner of the world, including collective farming [1950s], the Cultural Revolution [1966-1976], the Great Famine [1958-1961], the One-Child Policy, the Tiananmen massacre [1989], as well as the persecution of the Falun Gong [spiritual movement], and the peoples of Tibet, Hong Kong and Xinjiang…Yet everyone continues to turn a blind eye, singing the party's praises. I just can't bear it".


Zhang disappeared shortly after recording his message. His friends fear he will face interrogation and torture by the secret police.