The Chinese Big Lie

BarryD2

Deleted User wrote: »

It would have been extremely naive and ignorant to believe that China had beaten the virus, considering that the virus will continue to be a thing until a vaccine is created and distributed. Their measures to contain or decrease the spread of the virus were effective... that should be accepted as being accurate, but this virus is not beaten anywhere. As evidenced by Wuhan decreasing the restrictions, and then the infected rates exploding once more.

It is interesting though because it was western media plugging the lines that China had beaten the virus. Sure, Chinese media was doing similar although they were also highlighting the serious risks from those without symptoms, and saying the WHO estimates about the virus weren't accurate. Within China, they were still encouraging people to be careful, and that the virus wasn't beaten.

As for your question.... I have said many times that I wouldn't immediately trust anything that came from the CCP. Anything. Not without fact checking independently. But then, I feel the same about western media too.

The CCP has never been honest about statistics. Never. When economists or analysts look at China's cash reserves, they guess what they are, because the released data by the CCP fluctuates so wildly that it's obvious that the amounts are false. The same can be said about any statistic including their population. The point though is this sudden belief of being lied to.. is something new. It's not.

I really don't accept this sudden naivety by western media and people in general. There are hundreds of articles from long before the virus appearing, talking about how unreliable Chinese released statistics and statements are... but now, there's such outrage that the CCP weren't honest and transparent. They've never been transparent. It's such a load of bollocks this sudden innocence by westerners.. It's a cop out. Oh! we were tricked! Complete rubbish..

Agreed and why the media and/or health 'experts' here should be called out every time they engage in lazy journalism or lazy analysis. Mouthpieces parroting figures that come from China in these instances.

BarryD2

BarryD2 wrote: »

Agreed and why the media and/or health 'experts' here should be called out every time they engage in lazy journalism or lazy analysis. Mouthpieces parroting figures that come from China in these instances.

Possibly. Fact is, we don't truly know where they're getting their figures from. There's a crap ton of political maneuvering going on.

But yes, I wouldn't be trusting of any Chinese figures released by their government. Although, in all honesty, I wouldn't be too trusting of US figures either. Or those from India. Or Russia.

The world has moved far away from being completely honest and trustworthy.

mzhou

If you think it is a life from China, this is what an american says about America has the virus since October.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2LJkOBZhk

Wibbs

mzhou wrote: »

If you think it is a life from China, this is what an american says about America has the virus since October.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2LJkOBZhk

This idea has been doing the rounds for a while alright. We've had discussions here about it. I dunno M. Part of me is like Nah, another part of me is maybe? I can say that if I had the symptoms I had in late Jan early Feb* today and rang a GP I'd almost certainly go to the head of the queue for testing for Covid-19.

But if it were here earlier then the obvious question where was the spike in deaths in elderly folks? That's the sticking point for me. Though there was an increase in hospital admissions over the Xmas/New Year period. Could some of them have been this dose? We couldn't have known even if they were, as it was long before any test. I'm sure at least one doctor has looked back over that period and checked for the clinical evidence of the specific type of lung damage this causes. That would be hard to miss.

Other factors might be in play before we were aware and had the tests. Pnuemonia kills a lot of vulnerable people every year. Both my folks died from it. Granted they were in their 80's, but it's a common enough cause of death in the elderly, so might be missed in some cases?

Another factor might be if it were here that it was in tiny numbers(I only know four people that had that above dose at that time, and we all know each other, two had the flu shot, one had the flu in December) and it didn't get into the care homes where a large percentage of deaths have been happening. Even since we've been aware and taken action the care home deaths here lagged behind the curve from what I recall?





*fever of 100, fatigue, unproductive cough, sinus pain, loss of sense of smell, headaches(which I never get) and it took a while to clear and the cough stuck with me for weeks(cleared up suddenly, like overnight). A couple of people I know that had it at the same time had the above and worse symptoms. I didn't get breathless, two did, one very badly, had to try to sleep sitting up in bed.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

This idea has been doing the rounds for a while alright. We've had discussions here about it. I dunno M. Part of me is like Nah, another part of me is maybe? I can say that if I had the symptoms I had in late Jan early Feb* today and rang a GP I'd almost certainly go to the head of the queue for testing for Covid-19..

I've heard similar from friends and family who have said that they might have had it earlier and gotten better from it. As you said, the deaths from the virus are the big stickler for me in believing that it's been around for a while.

At the same time though, it could have been a different strain, and somehow when it reached Wuhan, it mutated in some way, becoming what we have right now.

The problem is that, in spite of months of research, we know so little for sure about the virus. I've seen a lot of research that offers suggestions (or theories that were discounted by other research), but little in the way of definite answers.

Personally, I'm going with the idea that the virus has been around for months longer than we suspect, even possibly over a year, with a less detectable and dangerous strain. The part that worries me is if that's the case, it's highly possible that the strain is still changing, and could mutate into something worse. At the same time though, while I've been reading a lot into viruses these days, I'm still pretty clueless, so I won't be pushing the theory. Just another theory without any evidence. Seems like there's more than enough of that going on, these days.

Away With The Fairies

I'm not a fan of trump but he was right about the WHO. They failed at protecting the rest of the world. We have to deal with this, not only the virus but the economic effect for God knows how long. While China put their country in a complete lockdown, bolted their citizens into their houses and apartments which we won't do here and now they get to continue on with their lives and leave the rest of the world deal with it. China has alot to answer for and I hope they are held accountable for this and their lies.

FVP3

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I'm not a fan of trump but he was right about the WHO.

Once again, for the 20th or so time, the WHO gave warnings about the virus in December and January. China reported to the WHO in December.

China has alot to answer for and I hope they are held accountable for this and their lies.

This nonsense will never die.

FVP3

FVP3 wrote: »

Once again, for the 20th or so time, the WHO gave warnings about the virus in December and January. China reported to the WHO in December.



This nonsense will never die.

Yep Dictator Xi and the Chinese Communist Party are a great bunch of lads.
:rolleyes:

It was the very last day of December when China notified the WHO
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/timeline-china-coronavirus-spread-200126061554884.html

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-timeline.html

We all know this story by now https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-chinese-doctor-who-discovered-virus-in-wuhan-recounts-first-days-of-outbreak/news-story/3a260cac47844e72f9073deebc1b17f4

so youre being deliberately supporting of a lying murderous regime that have spread a dangerous disease worldwide. Well done.

Everyone should follow Japans lead to pull manufacturing from China.

Away With The Fairies

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I'm not a fan of trump but he was right about the WHO. They failed at protecting the rest of the world.

To be fair, the Chinese weren't the first to seek to influence the WHO. The US has never restrained from bullying organisations due to the funding provided and diplomatic weight it has. It's not as if China overstepped some obvious line of behavior that nobody had done before.

Trump has been wrong about so many things relating to this virus, and he's done his best to divide the world. To be brutally direct, we need China. We need their economic and manufacturing base, along with it's developed medical research facilities. If people were really serious about saving lives, they wouldn't be putting up with this blame game, that Trump and the internet seem so intent on pushing.

We have to deal with this, not only the virus but the economic effect for God knows how long. While China put their country in a complete lockdown, bolted their citizens into their houses and apartments which we won't do here and now they get to continue on with their lives and leave the rest of the world deal with it.

Oh boo hoo... poor us. It's so sad that western governments downplayed the danger of the virus, even when China was reacting strongly to it. Even when reports of the virus were spreading across Chinese social media (which US intelligence services would have been monitoring), western countries had decided that this was an Asian problem, and something that wouldn't come to Europe or the US. Which is why there were no measures put in place within western airports. Not because China lied (which they've always done) but because western nations weren't willing to lose votes. Make our lives just a little inconvenient.. nah. Lets pretend that the virus won't travel beyond Chinese borders, and if it does, it'll stay in Asia.

As for Chinese people continuing with their lives... the virus hasn't been cured. It's still out there, and the risk of it spreading is the same as it was three months ago. Some measures have been found to detect and treat the virus... somewhat... but there is so much we don't know about the virus and how it spreads. A ****load of speculation and theories, but very little hard evidence.

I'm getting a bit tired by the whining coming out of the west. Take some frickin responsibility for a situation of our own making. Bloody hell. Children sulking because their society wasn't immune, and their half-hearted measures weren't as effective as China's or Korea'sn stronger responses.

China has alot to answer for and I hope they are held accountable for this and their lies.

They have very little to answer for... and even that will never be followed through on, because they can easily point to the hypocrisy and double standards of western nations. The rest of the world isn't stupid. They can see the bull**** that the US has been up to for the last two decades, and they've never been brought to account for them. The invasion of Iraq? Nope. Guantanamo Bay? Nope.

Why would China accept punishment from western nations, when we're unwilling to apply our wonderful values on our own superpower?

Answer me this. Who is going to force China to accept punishment? They don't need our markets. We need the Chinese market. They've invested heavily by providing debt to developing nations, and will continue to have markets to sell their products to, even if the West managed to do anything (which I don't believe they're really capable of doing).

What will the west do, if China gives you the middle finger and tells you to piss off with your stupid demands for reparations?

BanditLuke

FVP3 wrote: »

Once again, for the 20th or so time, the WHO gave warnings about the virus in December and January. China reported to the WHO in December.



This nonsense will never die.

China hid the virus and clamped down on anyone trying to get the information out for weeks. They are responsible.

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

China hid the virus and clamped down on anyone trying to get the information out for weeks. They are responsible.

They were unsuccessful in doing so. That's really the point, isn't it? Rumors were around long before the whistleblowers. They certainly were on Chinese social media, even with the government blocking key words. They tried and failed to hold back the spread of information.

But sure, they are responsible. Just as the US is responsible. Just as every nation that didn't monitor their air traffic is responsible. Or those nations that downplayed the dangers of the virus are responsible. Or the media companies that hyped and downplayed various aspects of the situation, are responsible. Just as those going to ski in Italy, or to the cheltenham races are responsible...

However, you seem to want to make China solely responsible. And that's a total cop out.

ek motor

FVP3 wrote: »

This nonsense will never die.

How is it nonsense ?

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-china-hid-pandemic-news-six-days-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

Away With The Fairies

FVP3 wrote: »

Once again, for the 20th or so time, the WHO gave warnings about the virus in December and January. China reported to the WHO in December.



This nonsense will never die.

I'm not here to argue, I have enough of that and enough stress from this. They silenced doctors when they spoke up and lied about human-to-human transmission. They have hidden their numbers and their deaths (which is represented by the amount of it urns returned and not adding up). Chinese lied and the WHO took their word for things, they failed the rest of the world.

Wibbs

Of course the Chinese government lied and stamped out dissent when they could find it. That's what they do and what they've always done, more than most governments. What would you expect from a pig but a grunt? We get fooled by the shiny skyscrapers and futuristic infrastructure of this current "great leap forward", but the same centralised, autocratic and bureaucratic empire is still under it all. I'm surprised by all the surprise tbh.

However I agree with Klaz on much of this western whining about it. We have enabled China in the search for ever cheaper manufacturing for our never ending need to consume and unlike the poor devils in places like Pakistan making your 300 quid Nike runners for a bowl of rice a day the Chinese capitalised on it. We gave away a shed load of our heavy and light industry to them, preferring getting fat arses in cubicles providing services over actually making stuff. And we whored ourselves out to them trying to get access to their vast customer base and did so almost entirely on their terms. This has come back to bite us on the arse and it'll bite harder and harder until we cop on, sack up and change on quite a fundamental level.

BanditLuke

The neck on these lads. Racist cnuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0418/1132322-china-anti-foreign-coronavirus/

Hit them hard with sanctions asap.

maninasia

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Never heard that "wet markets' are called wet markets because of the blood. Always told that they sold "wet" goods (perishable) as opposed to other "dry" markets.

There's absolutely no need to shut down the wet markets in Hong Kong, anyway. Why would there be?

I'm very familiar with these markets. They aren't always called wet markets, they are often called traditional markets. Indeed they are focused on fresh produce of all Kinds.
The reason why they are called wet is very likely because when they wrap up for the day you will see them hosing down everything (no matter butchers, fishmongers or fruit and veg sellers ) and they are indeed...Wet !
During the day they can also be wet especially around the fish section due to ice melting.

Podge201

BanditLuke wrote: »

The neck on these lads. Racist cnuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0418/1132322-china-anti-foreign-coronavirus/

Hit them hard with sanctions asap.

Must confirm first the virus is man made.

silverharp

BanditLuke wrote: »

The neck on these lads. Racist cnuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0418/1132322-china-anti-foreign-coronavirus/

Hit them hard with sanctions asap.

RTE, bringing you last week's news today :pac:

silverharp

Podge201 wrote: »

Must confirm first the virus is man made.

not required, just that the Chines dishonestly held back informing the world. If its a structural Chinese + CCP mindset , ie extreme paranoia about face saving then the world cant do business with China, their system is incompatible with the west.
They can have their Uyghur concentration camps, steal IP, export Fentanyl , use prisoners for forced organ donations, who are we to be critical? , but bringing the globe to its knees on what could be a regular basis is crossing a line.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

For you, everything about China is analytical or theoretical. For me, it has practical considerations, and so, it's something that I've seen, firsthand, in my own life.

I hear you Klaz, you keep making the same point over and over and I keep saying I understand. People living under Nazi Germany would also be fine if they didn't follow Judaism, hell I'm sure you could find a good job in North Korea and be happy learning about Eastern Values.
There are however millions of dissidents that don't agree with 'eastern values'. These voices must not be silenced because you have a good job and the CCP approves of your opinions.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm curious about how it all works, and the fact that I'm not judgmental about it all, means that people talk to me. I also have security clearance to teach on some Chinese military bases (their air force mostly), and have had my background fully checked out by the PSB. I've played along, and I've seen how the government operates... and what happens "unofficially".

I'm not judgemental about them either. My posts in this thread proves it I'd say. I was implied as a China shill more than a few times. I try to be as fair as possible. But there are some practices the CCP engage in that are truly evil.

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is a fantastic country if you take the time to try understand the culture/history while withholding judgement for as long as possible. It really is a different world in many ways. Highly recommended, although it is changing quickly and some of it's charm has disappeared.

It's actually how I met my girlfriend. She's a field officer in the PSB (Public security bureau) aka, the police. I had a problem in a nightclub, needed some help, asked a friend, and he connected me with her. She was able to negotiate a settlement, and I paid her back by teaching her management strategies which helped her in her applications for internal promotion (she wanted a desk job). You get help (100%) and you return the help (150%).

This is my problem; I'm fine if you put up with Chinese culture and make that concious choice as a foreigner travelling over there. There are many Chinese that don't get to make that choice as you rightfully point out on numerous occasions. They are punished severely for it. Not everyone is so lucky to have a PSB girlfriend. Not every foreigner will be able to stay out of trouble just by keeping their head down. Anyone with an opinion about anything is likely to get into trouble.

Deleted User wrote: »

[...]most Chinese people wouldn't have an opinion (at all) about organ harvesting because it doesn't affect them. Having an opinion can be dangerous, and their society is based on the belief that it's basically safer not to have opinions. [...]

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, they'll be tucked away in a work camp somewhere. It doesn't work out well for anyone who breaks the cardinal rules and remains in China. They'll come out in 15 years (if they survive) looking like old men. Broken in mind and body. TBH I'm more curious as to what might happen to their families.. associated guilt extends far within Chinese society, both officially and unofficially.

This is anyone who doesn't agree or has an opinion about the CCP line. As long as you agree with that; you'll be fine it China. Fairer at least to put that caveat.

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said earlier, I don't seek to justify Chinese forced organ harvesting.. My opinion is not going to the change the attitude of the wealthy American who goes to China for an organ, or the officials who allow the sale of organs from their prisons.

Just admit you're not allowed to have an opinion. That's good enough for me. All this talk of western/eastern values I find completely lacking in any substance. It's not a matter of values when you're not allowed to have an opinion on something, and can't freely talk about it.

As mentioned in the earlier article from RTE you don't want to become the meme:

pretending to be a friend of China, whilst writing bad things about the country online,"

Everyone knows how evil those people are.

You may have lived in China for about 1/4 of your life Klaz, but I've been part Chinese all my life. I was called names in school in Ireland all sorts, It really made me explore my Chinese identity from a young age. I was amazed learning about things such as the opium wars and the great leap forward, learning about Hong Kong, but whenever I had a conversation no-one knew what I was talking about. I've been a avid reader all my life and I've paid attention all my life. I still have family there. As you said yourself it's perhaps easier to hide information from you if you're living there, certainly it's hard to trust what you say as it is screened by government officials.

I think you're an honest pragmatic person as you say and I only wish you the best of luck and success. You seem a nice friendly person. You're lucky your opinions are in line with the CCP :rolleyes:

Ulmus

Well-written article by an exiled Chinese journalist:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8233475/The-world-unite-defeat-coronavirus-stay-united-beat-China-virus.html#comments

2u2me

silverharp wrote: »

not required, just that the Chines dishonestly held back informing the world. If its a structural Chinese + CCP mindset , ie extreme paranoia about face saving then the world cant do business with China, their system is incompatible with the west.
They can have their Uyghur concentration camps, steal IP, export Fentanyl , use prisoners for forced organ donations, who are we to be critical? , but bringing the globe to its knees on what could be a regular basis is crossing a line.

By most accounts there's a week where they covered up.

I might be with you if I thought any other nation on earth would be able to handle the containment of this virus, but I have serious doubts. Maybe South Korea/Taiwan.

I have seen scientific literature warning about this for a long time. If it doesn't come from China it comes from somewhere else.

Most major human infectious diseases have animal origins, and we continue to be bombarded by novel animal pathogens. Yet there is no ongoing systematic global effort to monitor for pathogens emerging from animals to humans. Such an effort could help us to describe the diversity of microbial agents to which our species is exposed; to characterize animal pathogens that might threaten us in the future; and perhaps to detect and control a local human emergence before it has a chance to spread globally.

In our view, monitoring should focus on people with high levels of exposure to wild animals, such as hunters, butchers of wild game, wildlife veterinarians, workers in the wildlife trade, and zoo workers. Such people regularly become infected with animal viruses, and their infections can be monitored over time and traced to other people in contact with them.

Source

Do you think Ireland could identify and contain a virus quicker than China did?

silverharp

2u2me wrote: »

By most accounts there's a week where they covered up.

I might be with you if I thought any other nation on earth would be able to handle the containment of this virus, but I have serious doubts. Maybe South Korea/Taiwan.

I have seen scientific literature warning about this for a long time. If it doesn't come from China it comes from somewhere else.

Source

Do you think Ireland could identify and contain a virus quicker than China did?

This below wouldn't happen in a western country

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795

On 30 December he sent a message to fellow doctors in a chat group warning them to wear protective clothing to avoid infection.
Four days later he was summoned to the Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign a letter. In the letter he was accused of "making false comments" that had "severely disturbed the social order".
He was one of eight people who police said were being investigated for "spreading rumours" Local authorities later apologised to Dr Li.

2u2me

silverharp wrote: »

This below wouldn't happen in a western country

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795

True enough. It seems the CCP had to put their tail in between their legs and apologize due to public backlash.
Thankfully he has since been exonerated, officially.

It seems humanity can overcome a communist dictatorship. From the heros that defy the CCP and risk harsh circumstances for themselves and their family, to the public outcry when they found out how Li was being treated.
I'm sure if the CCP could keep this a secret he would still be officially a 'trouble maker'. It's not pragmatic to be a trouble-maker.

No asian/western values. Just humans.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

-George Bernard Shaw

China was though one of the most prepared countries for a viral pandemic like this. They had learned previous lessons hopefully we now know. Given how other countries acted after 20th January, I still don't see any of them containing it.

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

The neck on these lads. Racist cnuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0418/1132322-china-anti-foreign-coronavirus/

Hit them hard with sanctions asap.

Hilarious. I love the logic. Ok. Let's put it this way... There have been insults and attacks made against Chinese people in Ireland, the UK, and many western countries. Chinese people have been blocked entry to restaurants, and other venues simply because they're Chinese.

Racist cnuts. Hit them with sanctions asap.

Considering the numbers of Black foreigners in China versus the numbers of Chinese people in Western nations, the numbers would be heavily in favor of the Chinese. So, we're talking about more people being affected by racism and ignorance in Europe or the US, than the black people in China.

But, noooo, we're not responsible for the racism that happens in Europe. We're individuals, aren't we?

Anyone seeing a trend here? Westerners are showing an amazing amount of double or selective standards during this crisis... :rolleyes:

Some people in China are racist. Most are simply ignorant of foreigners. AND they have good reason to be that way considering the lack of foreigners in China, and their own government propaganda... what's the justification for Europeans who should know better?

Nah. No excuses. Westerners are racist cnuts and should be hit with sanctions. but but but....

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

I hear you Klaz, you keep making the same point over and over and I keep saying I understand. People living under Nazi Germany would also be fine if they didn't follow Judaism, hell I'm sure you could find a good job in North Korea and be happy learning about Eastern Values.
There are however millions of dissidents that don't agree with 'eastern values'. These voices must not be silenced because you have a good job and the CCP approves of your opinions.

Your leaps of logic are simply amazing... where in my posts have I even remotely suggested such a thing?

I'm not judgemental about them either. My posts in this thread proves it I'd say. I was implied as a China shill more than a few times. I try to be as fair as possible. But there are some practices the CCP engage in that are truly evil.

Indeed there are. I believe that I've posted as much throughout this thread.

This is my problem; I'm fine if you put up with Chinese culture and make that concious choice as a foreigner travelling over there. There are many Chinese that don't get to make that choice as you rightfully point out on numerous occasions. They are punished severely for it. Not everyone is so lucky to have a PSB girlfriend. Not every foreigner will be able to stay out of trouble just by keeping their head down. Anyone with an opinion about anything is likely to get into trouble.

You're wandering. First off, our conversation was about foreigners in China, not Chinese people. Secondly, having an opinion doesn't get you into trouble. Voicing that opinion (should it be against the CCP), on a public forum, will get you into trouble. Simply talking to your friends or family won't... unless you're inciting dissent.

Posters here seem to misunderstand scale. You seem to think that there isn't a scale to what behavior is allowed, or not. Well, as with any society, there is. China's iis just a little less obvious that others.

Just admit you're not allowed to have an opinion. That's good enough for me. All this talk of western/eastern values I find completely lacking in any substance. It's not a matter of values when you're not allowed to have an opinion on something, and can't freely talk about it.

No, I won't agree because it's inaccurate. You want a simple black/white set of rules and values that are easy to understand and talk about. You want to dumb down Chinese culture to the oppressors and those who are oppressed. You keep saying that you understand Chinese culture, citing your relations, but you consistently return to showing that you don't... and don't care to learn about it.

Saying that, western/eastern values have no substance... is the perfect example of that.. You're still pushing western values on a very different culture, and dismissing anything that doesn't fit with your worldview.

As mentioned in the earlier article from RTE you don't want to become the meme:

I've been a member on boards a long time, and I've always voiced my opinion on issues. i don't pander to other posters, and I've always sought to engage in logical arguments. In my RL away from boards, I am exactly the same. Should the Chinese take offense, and deport me, I have the qualifications to get a visa in any country around the world.

The difference is that I don't agree with this narrow-minded approach to China that many westerners display. I'm not interested in encouraging double standards, or pretending some kind of moral superiority that doesn't exist. Western culture promotes a lot of values that they themselves have shown incapable of following for the long term.

Everyone knows how evil those people are.

Those people? Seriously? I'd say the majority of the ruling CCP are rather evil... but China or Chinese people? No. It's just another nation that does bad things sometimes..

You may have lived in China for about 1/4 of your life Klaz, but I've been part Chinese all my life.

Have you lived in China? Not Taiwan or HK... China? Simple enough.

Ethnic backgrounds do not transfer knowledge about their origin nation. An american who has Irish ancestry but lives all his life in the US, has no call to say that he understands what it's like to be Irish.. he didn't grow up in Ireland.

I was called names in school in Ireland all sorts, It really made me explore my Chinese identity from a young age. I was amazed learning about things such as the opium wars and the great leap forward, learning about Hong Kong, but whenever I had a conversation no-one knew what I was talking about. I've been a avid reader all my life and I've paid attention all my life. I still have family there. As you said yourself it's perhaps easier to hide information from you if you're living there, certainly it's hard to trust what you say as it is screened by government officials.

I think you're an honest pragmatic person as you say and I only wish you the best of luck and success. You seem a nice friendly person.

Here's a useful example. Nearly all of my students have VPNs. They source their essays with articles and references from western websites and western media. I didn't need to suggest that they do so, because they do it for their Chinese lecturers too. My students have access to youtube, and just about everything we have access to...

The difference is that they have cultural beliefs, and indoctrination behind them to shape what they see and believe. There is, once more, the pragmatic attitude... where is the value in believing all western media, and talking about it in China? There's none. It only leads them into areas which they have no reason to pursue.

You're lucky your opinions are in line with the CCP :rolleyes:

They're not. Many of my opinions are directly opposite the CCP... On boards I say whatever I want.. In China, I'm subtle and intelligent about what I say.

I do love how you compliment me, speaking all nicey nice and then seek to discredit me. :rolleyes:

MadYaker

Anyone read Macron's interview from a few days ago? Will there be consequences for the chinese when this is over I wonder? This can't be allowed to happen again.

BanditLuke

You know when even CNN is saying Trump may have a point on the Chinese cover up then China are in major trouble.

BanditLuke

MadYaker wrote: »

Anyone read Macron's interview from a few days ago? Will there be consequences for the chinese when this is over I wonder? This can't be allowed to happen again.

At the moment everyone is pretty much holding fire on China because of the PPE situation because the CCP are the kind of scum who would withdraw selling to anyone who questions them.

There absolutely no doubt though that China will pay a massive price for their cover up.

archer22

BanditLuke wrote: »

At the moment everyone is pretty much holding fire on China because of the PPE situation because the CCP are the kind of scum who would withdraw selling to anyone who questions them.

There absolutely no doubt though that China will pay a massive price for their cover up.

And what will that be in your opinion?