The Chinese Big Lie

bob mcbob

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not going to go back to normal. China and Chinese people are pushing internally for more laws, and better ways to increase the general hygiene within China. It is going to change... but considering the size of China and the traditional culture which is resistant to change, it will take time.

The real problem is that posters above expect China to immediately change and suddenly have a 1st world approach to everything. It's unrealistic... but then there are a lot of foolish attitudes in the world.

Just as the demands that China receive sanctions or punishment, ignores the fact that we need China's manufacturing base to produce a vaccine. Worldwide, there are extremely limited facilities to mass produce a vaccine and punishing China will not encourage them to help us.

This is something I find really interesting. Those who push for punishing China are more interested in punishing, than in saving lives. There's no belief that they should sacrifice their indignation at China for the greater good.. Doesn't anyone else notice the selfishness of their attitude? (since we are disregarding any responsibility for Western nations for what happened)

Absolutely I agree. What this has shown is to everyone is that we are too reliant on an unreliable supplier. The economics of the last 30 years where cost dictated everything will come to an end. Western nations now would not allow China to make their fighter jets. Now PPE, drugs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc will be the new jet fighters. When this is over there is going to be a fundamental re-analysis of the definition "strategic importance" in the supply chain.

I also find it laughable that you are promoting the greater good from China. I guess when somebody sticks a big wad of money in your nickers, you dance like you are told to.

cryptocurrency

BanditLuke wrote: »

Things now beginning to unravel for China.

The French nobel prize for medicine winning virologist Luc Montagneir has claimed the virus originated in a laboratory.

https://www.gulftoday.ae/lifestyle/2020/04/19/french-nobel-prize-winning-scientist-luc-montagnier-claims-covid-19-virus-originated-in-lab

His fresh claim on coronavirus, however, received criticism from scientists, including his colleagues.

Luc against the world.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not going to go back to normal. China and Chinese people are pushing internally for more laws, and better ways to increase the general hygiene within China. It is going to change... but considering the size of China and the traditional culture which is resistant to change, it will take time.

The real problem is that posters above expect China to immediately change and suddenly have a 1st world approach to everything. It's unrealistic... but then there are a lot of foolish attitudes in the world.

Just as the demands that China receive sanctions or punishment, ignores the fact that we need China's manufacturing base to produce a vaccine. Worldwide, there are extremely limited facilities to mass produce a vaccine and punishing China will not encourage them to help us.

This is something I find really interesting. Those who push for punishing China are more interested in punishing, than in saving lives. There's no belief that they should sacrifice their indignation at China for the greater good.. Doesn't anyone else notice the selfishness of their attitude? (since we are disregarding any responsibility for Western nations for what happened)

It's because they are both loons and dog whistleing racists who are only interested in the downfall of China and had some dumb idea of their own place in the world.

These people are utter morons, to the man, no exceptions.

bob mcbob

cryptocurrency wrote: »

His fresh claim on coronavirus, however, received criticism from scientists, including his colleagues.

Luc against the world.

Well at least in the west he is allowed to question things and only get criticism.

Which jail would be in now if he was in China?

bob mcbob

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's because they are both loons and dog whistleing racists who are only interested in the downfall of China and had some dumb idea of their own place in the world.

These people are utter morons, to the man, no exceptions.

It takes one to know one.

cryptocurrency

bob mcbob wrote: »

Well at least in the west he is allowed to question things and only get criticism.

Which jail would be in now if he was in China?

HMP Travelodge Suzhou Airport

bob mcbob

cryptocurrency wrote: »

HMP Travelodge Suzhou Airport

Surely that should be Emperor Xi Travelodge

bob mcbob

bob mcbob wrote: »

Absolutely I agree. What this has shown is to everyone is that we are too reliant on an unreliable supplier.

Except, of course, that the virus affects the whole world, and when considering a base for such a supplier or a base for manufacturing, China is the most stable country in the world (outside of western nations).

The economics of the last 30 years where cost dictated everything will come to an end.

How?

Employment of western citizens, for the most part, is far too expensive to support a manufacturing base. The US can do it, somewhat, due to cheap immigration from Mexico and S.America, but doing that has caused massive inequalities in a supposedly equal society, which in turn, has led to a growing movement of social instability.

Western nations now would not allow China to make their fighter jets. Now PPE, drugs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc will be the new jet fighters. When this is over there is going to be a fundamental re-analysis of the definition "strategic importance" in the supply chain.

China doesn't. Fighter jets are produced by a number of European nations, and the US. China sells to 3rd world nations. The US remains the largest supplier of military hardware to the world.

Dunno why you're using this as an example.

I also find it laughable that you are promoting the greater good from China.

Greater good? Hardly. I'm pointing out the practical consideration. We need their established manufacturing base because the west has a very limited one, since they've mostly focused on service industry for the last three decades. The US has some manufacturing capabilities, but it's suffered over the last decade... and pharmaceutical companies can only produce a limited number of vaccines. Keeping nice with China means a greater number of vaccines being produced, which in turn, means less people dying. Or is that too complicated for you?

I guess when somebody sticks a big wad of money in your nickers, you dance like you are told to.

What big wad of money? And since it sounds like you're trying (rather ineptly) to discredit me, or insult me, let me point out a few things.

First, your logic is simplistic, childish, and unrealistic. I'll also throw in impractical.

Second, you're so selfish that you would prefer more people dying just so that you can assume some supposed higher moral position.

Third, you've provided very little of actual value. Fighter Jets? Seriously?:rolleyes:

Lastly, my working in a Chinese university doesn't force me to defend China. I oppose posts like yours because they're ignorant and stupid. You show such a limited awareness of the world, and the consequences of what would happen if your ideas were implemented. You're a lot like Trump, in many respects. Funny that.

bob mcbob

Deleted User wrote: »

Except, of course, that the virus affects the whole world, and when considering a base for such a supplier or a base for manufacturing, China is the most stable country in the world (outside of western nations).



How?

Employment of western citizens, for the most part, is far too expensive to support a manufacturing base. The US can do it, somewhat, due to cheap immigration from Mexico and S.America, but doing that has caused massive inequalities in a supposedly equal society, which in turn, has led to a growing movement of social instability.



China doesn't. Fighter jets are produced by a number of European nations, and the US. China sells to 3rd world nations. The US remains the largest supplier of military hardware to the world.

Dunno why you're using this as an example.



Greater good? Hardly. I'm pointing out the practical consideration. We need their established manufacturing base because the west has a very limited one, since they've mostly focused on service industry for the last three decades. The US has some manufacturing capabilities, but it's suffered over the last decade... and pharmaceutical companies can only produce a limited number of vaccines. Keeping nice with China means a greater number of vaccines being produced, which in turn, means less people dying. Or is that too complicated for you?



What big wad of money? And since it sounds like you're trying (rather ineptly) to discredit me, or insult me, let me point out a few things.

First, your logic is simplistic, childish, and unrealistic. I'll also throw in impractical.

Second, you're so selfish that you would prefer more people dying just so that you can assume some supposed higher moral position.

Third, you've provided very little of actual value. Fighter Jets? Seriously?:rolleyes:

Lastly, my working in a Chinese university doesn't force me to defend China. I oppose posts like yours because they're ignorant and stupid. You show such a limited awareness of the world, and the consequences of what would happen if your ideas were implemented. You're a lot like Trump, in many respects. Funny that.

So basically what you are saying is that in the last 20 years the West has farmed out its mafacturing base to China. I think we can both agree that is a fact. YES?

There were areas that it viewed of "stragetic importance" like fighter jets that it would never do because lets agree that China is viewed as a long term threat to the West.

Now after the pandemic, the list of things that are now viewed as "strategically important" will grow significantly.

If you with your University position is too stupid to see that then my advice to you is stay there. You are on a great thing:rolleyes:

Kangaroolala

I found some comments towards China are extremely offensive and also unacceptable! The Covid-19 is under control in China because there is a powerful government, despite the fact that democracy is still a big issue there but the government can collect all the necessary resources quickly to deal with the virus.

China is having zero cases these days because of the strict rules followed by people from the end of Jan to the end of March: Wearing marks are compulsory if you go out; real name registrations if you are going to take any public transport; temperature checks at the entrance of each apartment; outsiders are not allowed to enter the residential areas; only one member from a family is allowed to go out to the shop for food shopping once a day; neighbours are all involved in monitoring each other... all those measures helped!

And for the people who think China is hiding information, where is your proof? China has published the DNA sequence of the virus and shared all the treatment methods, the medical staff and researchers also traveled to Europe to help the local hospitals to treat patients, not to mention how many PPE China donated to Europe. What have other countries done? Did American or UK helped Ireland?

bob mcbob

Kangaroolala wrote: »

I found some comments towards China are extremely offensive and also unacceptable! The Covid-19 is under control in China because there is a powerful government, despite the fact that democracy is still a big issue there but the government can collect all the necessary resources quickly to deal with the virus.

China is having zero cases these days because of the strict rules followed by people from the end of Jan to the end of March: Wearing marks are compulsory if you go out; real name registrations if you are going to take any public transport; temperature checks at the entrance of each apartment; outsiders are not allowed to enter the residential areas; only one member from a family is allowed to go out to the shop for food shopping once a day; neighbours are all involved in monitoring each other... all those measures helped!

And for the people who think China is hiding information, where is your proof? China has published the DNA sequence of the virus and shared all the treatment methods, the medical staff and researchers also traveled to Europe to help the local hospitals to treat patients, not to mention how many PPE China donated to Europe. What have other countries done? Did American or UK helped Ireland?

Why? Please elaborate.

bob mcbob

bob mcbob wrote: »

So basically what you are saying is that in the last 20 years the West has farmed out its mafacturing base to China. I think we can both agree that is a fact. YES?

There were areas that it viewed of "stragetic importance" like fighter jets that it would never do because lets agree that China is viewed as a long term threat to the West.

Now after the pandemic, the list of things that are now viewed as "strategically important" will grow significantly.

If you with your University position is too stupid to see that then my advice to you is stay there. You are on a great thing:rolleyes:

What the hell are you on about?

Western nations do not outsource their military systems to China. NATO sources all it's equipment from Europe, the US, and Israel. The US produces it's own.

I'm getting the strong feeling that you don't actually know what is produced in China by western companies, or what components that China produces that western companies use.

As for being stupid... you're doing such a great job of displaying it yourself. Perhaps do some research before posting because you keep posting completely inaccurate info.

bob mcbob

Deleted User wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?

Western nations do not outsource their military systems to China. NATO sources all it's equipment from Europe, the US, and Israel. The US produces it's own.

I'm getting the strong feeling that you don't actually know what is produced in China by western companies, or what components that China produces that western companies use.

Yes lets avoid answering the question and go into attack mode.
Another 100 USD into the knickers.

BanditLuke

Kangaroolala wrote: »

I found some comments towards China are extremely offensive and also unacceptable! The Covid-19 is under control in China because there is a powerful government, despite the fact that democracy is still a big issue there but the government can collect all the necessary resources quickly to deal with the virus.

China is having zero cases these days because of the strict rules followed by people from the end of Jan to the end of March: Wearing marks are compulsory if you go out; real name registrations if you are going to take any public transport; temperature checks at the entrance of each apartment; outsiders are not allowed to enter the residential areas; only one member from a family is allowed to go out to the shop for food shopping once a day; neighbours are all involved in monitoring each other... all those measures helped!

And for the people who think China is hiding information, where is your proof? China has published the DNA sequence of the virus and shared all the treatment methods, the medical staff and researchers also traveled to Europe to help the local hospitals to treat patients, not to mention how many PPE China donated to Europe. What have other countries done? Did American or UK helped Ireland?

Any comments on how China not the CCP but the people are treating foreigners especially African migrant workers in the current climate?

addaword

BanditLuke wrote: »

Things now beginning to unravel for China.

The French nobel prize for medicine winning virologist Luc Montagneir has claimed the virus originated in a laboratory.

Interesting. I never believed it came from a bat all of a sudden in this point in history anyway, so close to that lab in Wuhan.

BanditLuke

addaword wrote: »

Interesting. I never believed it came from a bat all of a sudden in this point in history anyway, so close to that lab in Wuhan.

I had my doubts but gave the Chinese the benefit of the doubt as I thought how stupid could they be to lie about the origins of the virus given the damage being done but then I thought you know this is the CCP and they are corrupt to their very core so yeah maybe.

It's falling apart now though and they are sending their bots out to discredit world renowned Nobel prize winning experts in the field.

This will end in tears for China.

bob mcbob

bob mcbob wrote: »

Yes lets avoid answering the question and go into attack mode.
Another 100 USD into the knickers.

What question? You answered it yourself. Yes? sorry, YES? :rolleyes:

It was a statement, not a question. In any case, it's pretty obvious that western companies have outsourced their manufacturing worldwide, with China in particular.

As for attack mode, don't get snide with people, and not expect them to respond.. You haven;t managed to defend your statements. Perhaps consider doing that, rather than seeking to insult or dismiss another poster.. it simply shows your own inability to engage in a mature conversation.

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

Any comments on how China not the CCP but the people are treating foreigners especially African migrant workers in the current climate?

Well, first off, it's not all of China. Or rather all Chinese people. There have been increased discrimination and racism directed towards African or black people particularly in GZ, and some lesser incidents in other cities.

Second, the reasons being given by Chinese people is that the African community has been ignoring the safety guidelines to limit the spread of the virus. Not wearing masks, not washing their hands often, congregating in large groups, breaking their containment zones, and getting hostile with anyone who asks them to obey the rules.

Third, a large part of the black community in GZ are illegal migrant workers, who came over on limited visas, and stayed on afterwards. China is generally not a country that is tolerant of people living there without official permission. So, there's been a lot of anger at the black community who are there illegally, in addition to behaving against the protective rules in place regarding the virus. Previously, they would have been ignored by most people, but combined with the danger of the virus, they've been pushed into the limelight, which results in more negative attention.

Lastly, GZ is traditionally a rather racist district in China. It's always been hostile to black people. Always. And yet, black people continue to move there. It has one of the largest concentrations of Africans in China.. even though it's always been one of the more racist areas. Beats me why anyone would go to a place that is well known for being racist.

In regards to non-black racism, or discrimination, I haven't heard of anything more than the usual small things. I've 11 foreign friends who have returned to China, and they've not experienced anything. So, I dunno about these claims of such behavior being directed at all foreigners. At the same time though, I wouldn't be too surprised if it was happening.... there's been a few cases where foreigners broke the containment rules, and that's going to cause a blacklash of public opinion.

I'm not seeking to justify the discrimination or racism being shown by some Chinese people, and some government officials. It is wrong. There are reasons though, why it's worse than it usually is. This virus is exaggerating peoples responses to small things, blowing them out of proportion. Chinese people aren't immune to the fear. Just as in the West, there have been some people attacking and insulting Chinese people because of the virus.

The minority should not be used to represent the majority.

Kangaroolala

BanditLuke wrote: »

Any comments on how China not the CCP but the people are treating foreigners especially African migrant workers in the current climate?

Those African migrants basically from Nigeria. They all gather together and formed their own African community in Guangzhou. Needless to say that the majority of them are illegally staying in that city without having official visas. The virus restrictions is for all the residents in China, but those Africans refused to stay indoors and also kept breaching the rules of quarantine. Basically they didn’t follow any social distance or wearing masks, because they think they have privilege! There was an African guy who was diagnosed with Covid-19 brutally bit a frontline Chinese nurse on the face and beat her violently when he was asked to be treated. How do you feel about this if an Irish nurse is beaten up by an African guy in your national hospital?

There were also Africans in China who were tested positive for Covid-19 hide themselves in African community and refused to get treatment. All those ridiculous chaos just add so many troubles and danger to other residents. If they are following the rules as other Chinese people do, there won’t be any issues like forcing them into quarantine.
By the way, during their quarantine, all the food and accommodation is all provided to them for free. And the medical treatment for the virus is also free. It is very shameful that some ungrateful Africans are mourning and exaggerating the fake stories online. Why don’t they just go back to where they came from?

cryptocurrency

Kangaroolala wrote: »

I found some comments towards China are extremely offensive and also unacceptable! The Covid-19 is under control in China because there is a powerful government, despite the fact that democracy is still a big issue there but the government can collect all the necessary resources quickly to deal with the virus.

China is having zero cases these days because of the strict rules followed by people from the end of Jan to the end of March: Wearing marks are compulsory if you go out; real name registrations if you are going to take any public transport; temperature checks at the entrance of each apartment; outsiders are not allowed to enter the residential areas; only one member from a family is allowed to go out to the shop for food shopping once a day; neighbours are all involved in monitoring each other... all those measures helped!

And for the people who think China is hiding information, where is your proof? China has published the DNA sequence of the virus and shared all the treatment methods, the medical staff and researchers also traveled to Europe to help the local hospitals to treat patients, not to mention how many PPE China donated to Europe. What have other countries done? Did American or UK helped Ireland?

They won't accept that as it hurts their white saviour narrative. What every time you give, including the DNA sequence at the start of January they will point to a 30 min window just before and say that Bruce Willis would have saved the world ala Armageddon but now they just don't have a clue about the virus, what it is, how to treat it and say they are unlikely to know for years. The loss of that 30m window killed them and now they want free money.

There is no possible way that western governments have been shown to be totally shambolic in dealing with a crisis or been shown up by the likes of Mongolia at dealing with this, no way, impossible.

Yurt2

I'm more convinced than ever. Not only has crypto never lived in China ("metro Beijing" my left nut), he's never even been there.

Grade-A weirdo

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

I'm more convinced than ever. Not only has crypto never lived in China ("metro Beijing" my left nut), he's never even been there.

Grade-A weirdo

And the very fact you are "convinced" on this will call into question every single thing you say on this thread from now on.

Yurt, warrior, knew all the 5kwai beer drinking champions of industry on dirty bar street.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

They won't accept that as it hurts their white saviour narrative. What every time you give, including the DNA sequence at the start of January they will point to a 30 min window just before and say that Bruce Willis would have saved the world ala Armageddon but now they just don't have a clue about the virus, what it is, how to treat it and say they are unlikely to know for years. The loss of that 30m window killed them and now they want free money.

There is no possible way that western governments have been shown to be totally shambolic in dealing with a crisis or been shown up by the likes of Mongolia at dealing with this, no way, impossible.

Ahh well, the victim narrative is very prominent in Western culture these days, since victims are completely lacking in the need for personal responsibility. You can see such a narrative in many aspects of Western culture/society. China will be used as a scapegoat because they're the perfect target. Regardless of what China says or does, they're disreputable and untrustworthy, so everything can be dismissed. Just as the they can dismiss all the stupidity, and ineptitude by western politicians because China is to be blamed for everything. Even when it comes to racism, the acts committed in the West are done by a minority, but within China, it represents the whole.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh well, the victim narrative is very prominent in Western culture these days, since victims are completely lacking in the need for personal responsibility. You can see such a narrative in many aspects of Western culture/society. China will be used as a scapegoat because they're the perfect target. Regardless of what China says or does, they're disreputable and untrustworthy, so everything can be dismissed. Just as the they can dismiss all the stupidity, and ineptitude by western politicians because China is to be blamed for everything. Even when it comes to racism, the acts committed in the West are done by a minority, but within China, it represents the whole.

But is is amazing that people are so dense that they still fall for it, hook, line and sinker.

Surely this crisis is some sort of wakeup call? The shambolic response and complete lack of ability to deal with a crisis must show people the emperor has no clothes.

If Putin wasn't sure before, he is sure now, we are all talk.

Wibbs

Kangaroolala wrote: »

And for the people who think China is hiding information, where is your proof? China has published the DNA sequence of the virus and shared all the treatment methods, the medical staff and researchers also traveled to Europe to help the local hospitals to treat patients, not to mention how many PPE China donated to Europe. What have other countries done? Did American or UK helped Ireland?

Eh, Ireland paid over two hundred million euro for the PPE. It certainly wasn't a donation. But we get it, China great, West baaaaad.

Why don’t they just go back to where they came from?

Oh man, now that's a line about Blacks/immigrants/[insert racial group here] I haven't heard in a while.

And where are you from Kangaroola? You don't write like a local, or is that offensive to say?

cryptocurrency wrote: »

They won't accept that as it hurts their white saviour narrative.

You really have the horn for hating the west and apparently White people for some odd reason.

What every time you give, including the DNA sequence at the start of January they will point to a 30 min window just before and say that Bruce Willis would have saved the world ala Armageddon but now they just don't have a clue about the virus, what it is, how to treat it and say they are unlikely to know for years.

Eh, you do realise that the very methods used to sequence viruses, hell the science of virology itself was invented and developed in the oh so decadent west and in the vast majority of cases by those silly White people.

See this pic of a doctor in Wuhan treating a patient?



Damned near every single item in that photo was invented and developed by "white saviours", from the IT, the medical apparatus, the IV lines, the drugs, the hypodermic needles, the scientific method behind the medicine itself, down to the design of the bed and even the artificial fibres in the sheets and clothing. Remove the "white saviour" stuff and you'd be left with a bamboo cot and a bloke sticking needles in the patient's meridians while they were fed a broth of tree bark and panda willies.

cryptocurrency

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh, Ireland paid over two hundred million euro for the PPE. It certainly wasn't a donation. But we get it, China great, West baaaaad.

Oh man, now that's a line about Blacks/immigrants/[insert racial group here] I haven't heard in a while.

And where are you from Kangaroola? You don't write like a local, or is that offensive to say?

You really have the horn for hating the west and apparently White people for some odd reason.

Eh, you do realise that the very methods used to sequence viruses, hell the science of virology itself was invented and developed in the oh so decadent west and in the vast majority of cases by those silly White people.

See this pic of a doctor in Wuhan treating a patient?



Damned near every single item in that photo was invented and developed by "white saviours", from the IT, the medical apparatus, the IV lines, the drugs, the hypodermic needles, the scientific method behind the medicine itself, down to the design of the bed and even the artificial fibres in the sheets and clothing. Remove the "white saviour" stuff and you'd be left with a bamboo cot and a bloke sticking needles in the patient's meridians while they were fed a broth of tree bark and panda willies.

What utter piffle....but your veil has dropped boot boy.

Yurt2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

And the very fact you are "convinced" on this will call into question every single thing you say on this thread from now on.

Yurt, warrior, knew all the 5kwai beer drinking champions of industry on dirty bar street.

If you knew what I did for a living you'd be eating crow. You've never lived in Beijing you spoofmaster.

You're spelling of "kwai" is wrong btw. Low-knowledge spoofer.

From a level-7 in Tallaght IT a couple of years ago to international business mastermind. Pull the other one.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh well, the victim narrative is very prominent in Western culture these days, since victims are completely lacking in the need for personal responsibility. You can see such a narrative in many aspects of Western culture/society. China will be used as a scapegoat because they're the perfect target. Regardless of what China says or does, they're disreputable and untrustworthy, so everything can be dismissed. Just as the they can dismiss all the stupidity, and ineptitude by western politicians because China is to be blamed for everything. Even when it comes to racism, the acts committed in the West are done by a minority, but within China, it represents the whole.

Oh I would agree with pretty much all of that K. The west has been sleeping and consuming its way into a comfortable coma over the last few decades. The rise of that victim narrative has been a bloody disaster. Everybody, every group is being painted a bloody victim these days in the rush to the bottom of lazy self centred and self involved decadence.

Hell we have people having a whinge about being asked to sit on our ever widening arses watching netflix for a couple of months. It's so so hard. *sobs* :rolleyes:

I hope the one positive that comes out of this is more people sacking the fcuk up , getting over themselves and acting like adults in a wider community, not spoiled toddlers in a creche screaming because Liam stole their crayons.

Wibbs

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What utter piffle....but your veil has dropped boot boy.

Please point out any inaccuracies in my post.

cryptocurrency

Yurt! wrote: »

If you knew what I did for a living you'd be eating crow. You've never lived in Beijing you spoofmaster.

You're spelling of "kwai" is wrong btw. Low-knowledge spoofer.

From a level-7 in Tallaght IT a couple of years ago to international business mastermind. Pull the other one.

Kwai, was in reference to the bridge you built in your career in dirty bar street.

Oh and it was a short programme and I found it very good. I have done quite a few since graduating in 1998, 7,8,9 eqv and then 8 again. All different areas.

You are beating your chest way too much on your own self importance which makes me think you are very insecure.