The Chinese Big Lie

2u2me

Xertz wrote: »

There was no indication that a lock-down in Europe was needed on 8th March. We were still only vaguely debating closing schools at that stage and still talking about Patrick's Day going ahead.

It's all very well to talk about these things in hindsight. At the time there was no notion that things would get this bad this quickly.

I was merely pointing out why you might see a different death rate in Spain and China, as per the different responses from their governments.

XsApollo

The WHO is a sham.
They are pretty much a Chinese pawn at this stage
, they refuse to acknowledge Taiwan’s existence as a country with 25million people and have Peddled the Chinese line with regards their numbers.
Should be no political agendas in an Organization like that but China probably gives them a nice chunk of cash so they don’t want to upset them.

World Health Organization.... ie the health of everybody.

No sane person can believe any thing the Chinese government say with regard anything they would need to report that would show them in a negative light , The Chinese don’t like showing weakness, any loss of face or weakness in that government and the leader would be ousted.

BanditLuke

Xertz wrote: »

There was no indication that a lock-down in Europe was needed on 8th March. We were still only vaguely debating closing schools at that stage and still talking about Patrick's Day going ahead.

It's all very well to talk about these things in hindsight. At the time there was no notion that things would get this bad this quickly.

Rubbish. Plenty of experts warned us. Our government and other governments just didn't want to know.

Skylinehead

XsApollo wrote: »

The WHO is a sham.
They are pretty much a Chinese pawn at this stage
, they refuse to acknowledge Taiwan’s existence as a country with 25million people and have Peddled the Chinese line with regards their numbers.
Should be no political agendas in an Organization like that but China probably gives them a nice chunk of cash so they don’t want to upset them.

World Health Organization.... ie the health of everybody.

No sane person can believe any thing the Chinese government say with regard anything they would need to report that would show them in a negative light , The Chinese don’t like showing weakness, any loss of face or weakness in that government and the leader would be ousted.

The WHO is a UN organisation, of course it's political. You do realise that almost no country in the world recognises Taiwan?

XsApollo

Skylinehead wrote: »

The WHO is a UN organisation, of course it's political. You do realise that almost no country in the world recognises Taiwan?

Yea I do,
All because they are bending for the Chinese.
Anyway I hope once the dust settles and countries start investigating what has actually occurred, that the worlds reliance on China and the power it gives them slowly starts to dissipate.

Skylinehead

XsApollo wrote: »

Yea I do,
All because they are bending for the Chinese.
Anyway I hope once the dust settles and countries start investigating what has actually occurred, that the worlds reliance on China and the power it gives them slowly starts to dissipate.

The second Taiwan gets any real recognition, they'll probably be invaded. Sucks but that's the reality.

skellig_rocks

2u2me wrote: »

Feminists were holding rallies on the streets of Madrid while Wuhan was in lockdown.

Thousands march in Spain on women's day despite coronavirus fears

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wuhan-officials-face-questions-anger-virus-response-68579638

As the National Health Commission team came to Wuhan to investigate on Jan. 19, tens of thousands of people tucked into a mass banquet of 13,986 dishes contributed from neighborhood families. Pictures in state media showed nobody wearing masks while they shared rice cakes, fish, and other Lunar New Year delicacies.

This is a article about the banquet, in Chinese, with photos of the banquet.


http://www.wenming.cn/dfcz/hb_1679/202001/t20200119_5386684.shtml

XsApollo

Your’e probably right.

SuperRabbit

Well there was an independent organization in China in charge of making sure the government couldn't interfere with health stuff, sort of like the financial regulator and the banks. And just like in 2008, it didn't work, the regulators had been subservient to the banks, so now, hopefully, just like after 2008 with the financial regulator, they will learn from their mistakes

Xertz

BanditLuke wrote: »

Rubbish. Plenty of experts warned us. Our government and other governments just didn't want to know.

Again, hindsight.

You try being the first western country to do a lock down 2 or 3 weeks ahead of everyone else and watch your financial markets, credit lines and so on and so on being utterly destroyed as the international commentary would have laughed you out of it at the time.

Also, you're talking about democracies. Making a decision to effectively stop a large proportion of day-to-day activity both business and social has huge impacts and no democratic country can make calls like that based on a single individual just decreeing things. That's just not how it works.

Attitudes change and the world's not as simple as that.

Hindsight's great. I mean, most unfortunate outcomes would never have happened if only we had done the thing that seemed illogical at the time.

The outbreak could have easily kicked off in big transit hubs like London or Amsterdam rather than Italy and would have hit Northern Europe far more heavily first. We just so happened to get early warning from what happened in Italy and took at least some actions before things got out complete out of control.

2u2me

skellig_rocks wrote: »

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wuhan-officials-face-questions-anger-virus-response-68579638

This is a article about the banquet, in Chinese, with photos of the banquet.


http://www.wenming.cn/dfcz/hb_1679/202001/t20200119_5386684.shtml

At this point in time(Jan 19th) there were 200 confirmed cases and 3 deaths. Testing only became available on Jan 15th. It was also not known whether the virus was human to human transmissable until Jan 20th when China actually shut everything down.

The women's day march was on March 8th. Knowing all of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_from_November_2019_to_January_2020

thecretinhop

Xertz wrote: »

Again, hindsight.

You try being the first western country to do a lock down 2 or 3 weeks ahead of everyone else and watch your financial markets, credit lines and so on and so on being utterly destroyed as the international commentary would have laughed you out of it at the time.

Also, you're talking about democracies. Making a decision to effectively stop a large proportion of day-to-day activity both business and social has huge impacts and no democratic country can make calls like that based on a single individual just decreeing things. That's just not how it works.

Attitudes change and the world's not as simple as that.

Hindsight's great. I mean, most unfortunate outcomes would never have happened if only we had done the thing that seemed illogical at the time.

the spanish government is being sued over marches they deliberately put out lower figures on cases

s982102

XsApollo wrote: »

The WHO is a sham.
They are pretty much a Chinese pawn at this stage
, they refuse to acknowledge Taiwan’s existence as a country with 25million people and have Peddled the Chinese line with regards their numbers.
Should be no political agendas in an Organization like that but China probably gives them a nice chunk of cash so they don’t want to upset them.

World Health Organization.... ie the health of everybody.

No sane person can believe any thing the Chinese government say with regard anything they would need to report that would show them in a negative light , The Chinese don’t like showing weakness, any loss of face or weakness in that government and the leader would be ousted.

Taiwan is an area not a country.Officially, the civil war is still going between People Republic of China and Republic of China (which Taiwan represents). The current government of Taiwan refuses to accept that Taiwan is a part of China (whether it is P. R. China or R。 China). This is where the problem is from. WHO and other international organizations recognize China (currently P. R. China) but not Taiwan as it never exists as a country.



So before you talk about Taiwan, please make sure you know the basic background first.

s982102

XsApollo wrote: »

Yea I do,
All because they are bending for the Chinese.
Anyway I hope once the dust settles and countries start investigating what has actually occurred, that the worlds reliance on China and the power it gives them slowly starts to dissipate.

Please do check my post for very simple background information.

s982102

There are lots of people talking about fake information from China with no real evidence. And the evidences that support the Chinese figures are not trusted by these people. I think it is clear who is brain washing whom..

How Europe become today is because governments are not doing what they are supposed to do. No PPE, no checkups at the airport. No proper isolation protocol, etc. Think about it..

jmayo

s982102 wrote: »

There are lots of people talking about fake information from China with no real evidence. And the evidences that support the Chinese figures are not trusted by these people. I think it is clear who is brain washing whom..

How Europe become today is because governments are not doing what they are supposed to do. No PPE, no checkups at the airport. No proper isolation protocol, etc. Think about it..

You still need to keep going to the classes as you are still making some errors in your written English.

You probably have more time now on your hands, since your "part time" job is probably gone due to the shutdown.

skellig_rocks

2u2me wrote: »

At this point in time(Jan 19th) there were 200 confirmed cases and 3 deaths. Testing only became available on Jan 15th. It was also not known whether the virus was human to human transmissable until Jan 20th when China actually shut everything down.

The women's day march was on March 8th. Knowing all of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_from_November_2019_to_January_2020

On 19 January 2020, 200 confirmed cased 3 deaths.
On 23 January 2020, Chinese Government announced Wuhan Lockdown.
On 25 January 2020, Hubei and most of China under lockdowns.


So China locked down the whole country just because of hundreds of cases?

2u2me

skellig_rocks wrote: »

On 19 January 2020, 200 confirmed cased 3 deaths.
On 23 January 2020, Chinese Government announced Wuhan Lockdown.
On 25 January 2020, Hubei and most of China under lockdowns.


So China locked down the whole country just because of hundreds of cases?

They locked down the country 1 day after they realized the disease was human to human transmissible.

XsApollo

s982102 wrote: »

Please do check my post for very simple background information.

Yea I have and I also checked your other posts in the Covid 19 thread and read this little Gem.
“Nowadays you can trust chinese figures more than western ones”

skellig_rocks

2u2me wrote: »

They locked down the country 1 day after they realized the disease was human to human transmissible.

So what did China tell WHO in December 2019 about the "mystery" pneumonia?


And what did China tell US's CDC about the disease on 3 January 2020?


And what did this guy say on December 2019 in his chat group?

auspicious

Bear bile, goat horns and herbs endorsed by China's National Health Commission and the man himself Xi even though there is no scientific evidence for its effectiveness against Covid-19. Outright inhuman lies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8179287/China-treat-coronavirus-patients-injections-BEAR-BILE-GOAT-HORN.html&ved=2ahUKEwiU0pu3m8roAhVhXRUIHY7oDtEQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0g1kG8Q9B8leXpUh77J6oj

skellig_rocks

s982102 wrote: »

Taiwan is an area not a country.Officially, the civil war is still going between People Republic of China and Republic of China (which Taiwan represents). The current government of Taiwan refuses to accept that Taiwan is a part of China (whether it is P. R. China or R。 China). This is where the problem is from. WHO and other international organizations recognize China (currently P. R. China) but not Taiwan as it never exists as a country.



So before you talk about Taiwan, please make sure you know the basic background first.

North Korea and South Korea is technically still at civil war and no one would consider South Korea is part of North Korea?? And both are members of U.N and WHO

Xertz

auspicious wrote: »

Bear bile, goat horns and herbs endorsed by China's National Health Commission and the man himself Xi even though there is no scientific evidence for its effectiveness against Covid-19. Outright inhuman lies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8179287/China-treat-coronavirus-patients-injections-BEAR-BILE-GOAT-HORN.html&ved=2ahUKEwiU0pu3m8roAhVhXRUIHY7oDtEQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0g1kG8Q9B8leXpUh77J6oj

Traditional Chinese medicine is, like a lot of 'alternative medicine' just another collection of 'alternative facts' that have been pushed by anti-science / pseudoscience lobbyists who have bene given way too much airtime.

If you can't prove it scientifically, it's not science.

If something gives you comfort, fine but if it's doing damage to other animals and so on in the process, then it's not fine. It's just some traditional nonsense that people are unwilling to offend or call out.

The use of tortured animals to produce those "medicines" is just ridiculous and it needs to be called out as such in China.

_Brian

neris wrote: »

10000 dead in Spain only 3000 odd dead in China something fishy about the chinese numbers

China have significant experience suffering through and controlling this type of viral outbreak.

They hammer down on their population and lock them up. The population know to obey or disappear. So it’s no wonder they were able to stem the death toll through drastic means.

European countries had a air of ambivalence towards the viral outbreak. Very slow to make decisions, allowing massive travel and public gatherings to continue unrestricted. Italy has no lockdown at all until the death toll hit 1000, and even then it was only a partial lockdown. The U.K. went ahead with a massive three day racing festival where staff that reported symptoms were told to come to work serving drinks anyway.

Over in the US their great leader was knocking it as a hoax for a very long time and only this week has taken a somewhat better stance. He’s sending broken equipment to states governed by his political rivals for fcuk sake.

China had 20 million people on total lockdown within days where the U.K. rambled in about herd immunity and letting school and gathering continue for weeks before acting.

I’ve no doubt the Chinese system of markets and farming animals allowed this virus to develop initially, but the deviation it’s causing here in Europe and across in America is a demonstration of inept government and people who wouldn’t be told to keep indoors and stop meetings.

The two bafoons are on a hard policy of deflect and blame to protect their sorry asses.

Summer2020

auspicious wrote: »

Bear bile, goat horns and herbs endorsed by China's National Health Commission and the man himself Xi even though there is no scientific evidence for its effectiveness against Covid-19. Outright inhuman lies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8179287/China-treat-coronavirus-patients-injections-BEAR-BILE-GOAT-HORN.html&ved=2ahUKEwiU0pu3m8roAhVhXRUIHY7oDtEQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0g1kG8Q9B8leXpUh77J6oj

I wish people would let us know that they’re daily mail links that they’re posting. I refuse to read that rag.

_Brian

auspicious wrote: »

Bear bile, goat horns and herbs endorsed by China's National Health Commission and the man himself Xi even though there is no scientific evidence for its effectiveness against Covid-19. Outright inhuman lies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8179287/China-treat-coronavirus-patients-injections-BEAR-BILE-GOAT-HORN.html&ved=2ahUKEwiU0pu3m8roAhVhXRUIHY7oDtEQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0g1kG8Q9B8leXpUh77J6oj

There is a bit of a class thing to these exotic remedies. To be seen to afford them regularly elevates ones status in Chine. Crazy, but it is what it is.

skellig_rocks

Summer2020 wrote: »

I wish people would let us know that they’re daily mail links that they’re posting. I refuse to read that rag.

From BBC:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52131940

However, at the same time as this ruling, China approved the use of bear bile to treat coronavirus patients.

Bear bile - a digestive fluid drained from living captive bears - has long been used in traditional Chinese medicine.

The active ingredient, ursodeoxycholic acid, is used to dissolve gallstones and treat liver disease. But there is no proof that it is effective against the coronavirus and the process is painful and distressing for the animals

Brian Daly, a spokesman for the Animals Asia Foundation, told AFP: "We shouldn't be relying on wildlife products like bear bile as the solution to combat a deadly virus that appears to have originated from wildlife."

Xertz

And mainstream medicine uses synthesised ursodeoxycholic acid as a drug.
There's absolutely no need to extract it by torturing bears!

tuxy

skellig_rocks wrote: »

North Korea and South Korea is technically still at civil war and no one would consider South Korea is part of North Korea?? And both are members of U.N and WHO

It's all down to how many countries recognise them as a country. Taiwan is recognised by 5 out of 193 UN states. Both Koreas would be recognised by the vast majority.

skellig_rocks

tuxy wrote: »

It's all down to how many countries recognise them as a country. Taiwan is recognised by 5 out of 193 UN states. Both Koreas would be recognised by the vast majority.

Why those 188 countries recognise North/South Korea while not Taiwan? Maybe Taiwan is an evil "country/region"?