The Chinese Big Lie

blinding

Wibbs wrote: »

Because B they make a shed load of our stuff that we consume like gluttons, as well as stuff we actually need. They make it cheaper and in vast quantities and world consumers and the businesses that feed them need China. That's why.

And because of that the rest of the world has quietly and hypocritically ignored the various elephants in the room about China and indeed our own consumerist natures and cultures.

If this was the 1960's and the virus kicked off in the China, a) chances are it might not spread beyond their borders as the place was closed off, even a pariah in the Cold War context and b) they made feck all that we wanted.

So how do you propose we stop? Go ahead B, go around your gaff and look at the labels on all the stuff you own. If it says "Made in China", take it and throw it in your wheelie bin. If you did chances are you're now phoneless, your PC and all accessories like modems etc are gone, as is your telly and all its accessories, if you're into gaming, that's gone, some of your clothing, maybe even some foodstuffs, maybe even many of your lightbulbs, even furniture. If in the face of this pox you've built a home hypochondriac's kit and stocked up on masks, digital thermometers and oxygen readers; they're gone too.

So in order to stop you alone would give up a load of your stuff you feel you need to live. Will you? Would you pay more for alternatives?

I am a Minimalist and Tight. Nobody is making their fortune off me ! !

2u2me

cryptocurrency wrote: »

But they are the darlings of the Royals and world leaders

I'd live in Saudi Arabia over North Korea(darlings of China) anyday :P

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

That's right run the guy down.

I didn't expect less from some tbh.

All I asked for was for a second source. I am inclined to tend towards the accidental escape from lab theory but have seen no clear evidence either way. Montagnier has produced some unusual thinking in later years in terms of Homeopathy, so it is not wrong to question the guy. A lot of former Nobel Laureates get sidelined in intellectual dead ends in later life as the field moves on leaving them behind

cryptocurrency

2u2me wrote: »

I'd live in Saudi Arabia over North Korea(darlings of China) anyday :P

Not in an expat compoud?

NK yes, China light years better then Saudi for living

MadYaker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

when was these 6 weeks?

From early December to mid January. If you’re posting in the China thread and you still don’t understand the timeline of events I’m not arsed explaining it to you. You can start by reading this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/asia/chinese-doctor-Li-Wenliang-coronavirus.amp.html

cryptocurrency

MadYaker wrote: »

From early December to mid January. If you’re posting in the China thread and you still don’t understand the timeline of events I’m not arsed explaining it to you. You can start by reading this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/asia/chinese-doctor-Li-Wenliang-coronavirus.amp.html

Thought from all the on record comments that it was clear that on the 11/01/20 that China had been engaged with the international community on the virus for "a number of weeks"

That is why I asked, and you gave the exact answer I was expecting you to give.

2u2me

Kangaroolala wrote: »

Answer: Er you are making your own story here, of course Westerners are the pioneer for Western medicine, but it doesn't mean that China cannot discard the dross and select the essence. As the globalisation lead to countries learn from each other, which is a fantastic thing, unless you want to go back to your own cave and continuing being a quadrumana!

If I can see further; it is because I stand on the shoulder's of giants.

-Isaac Newton

Newton was talking about Tycho Brahe, a Danish astronomer who gazed up to the stars everynight, recording the motion of the stars, the first competent mind in modern astronomy to feel ardently the passion for exact empirical facts

MadYaker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Thought from all the on record comments that it was clear that on the 11/01/20 that China had been engaged with the international community on the virus for "a number of weeks"

That is why I asked, and you gave the exact answer I was expecting you to give.

You must be living in a different reality so. At that point they’d already tried to silence doctors and then lied to the international community saying there had been no human to human transmission on jan 14th. Did you even look at the article I linked?

Wibbs

Kangaroolala wrote: »

Answer: Obviously your arrogance prevented you from checking the news:

"Bank of China donates 200,000 items of protective equipment to Ireland"

"Chinese technology company Huawei has said it will send a shipment of medical equipment to Ireland as part of its Covid-19 relief efforts. Ireland will be the first European country after Italy to be sent medical equipment by the company, which has been at the centre of a geopolitical controversy in recent months over the alleged presence of spyware in its products – which the company denies."

"6 Chinese business persons in Ireland donate 40 ventilators, 200,000 masks, 20,000 respirators, 3,000 protective clothes to HSE & a few hospitals."

"Coronavirus: 10,000 surgical masks donated to St James's Hospital by Association of Chinese Professionals in Ireland"

Don't tell me those don't count as donation. And there are lots of donations not reported.

They do count as donation and fair enough. We're still 200 plus million down. And China has been quick enough to play the soft power angle in this. QV Serbian donations.

What have you done? yeah successfully demonstrated your ignorance.

Hardly unusual in this thread.

Answer: I am just an ordinary human who doesn't tolerate bull****. English is not my first language.

And yet apparently Africans in China should "go back to where they came from".

Answer: Absolutely nonsense! I live and work here in Ireland. I appreciate the glory of humanity of the society here and people I have met. Most of them are polite and decent.

I was addressing Crypto, not you.

I feel sorry for you as you are the victim of amorality.

I have really no clue what to take from or say to that. How the feck you made that leap I don't know. On a few levels.

Answer: Er you are making your own story here, of course Westerners are the pioneer for Western medicine, but it doesn't mean that China cannot discard the dross and select the essence.

They're the pioneer for medicine; you know, stuff that works, from the Greeks onwards, with a welcome and enlightening detour into the early Muslim world. But not just medicine. Like I said remove all western innovated items in the picture of that ward and you'd have remarkably little left.

As the globalisation lead to countries learn from each other, which is a fantastic thing, unless you want to go back to your own cave and continuing being a quadrumana!

It worries me more that I know that word... Oh and cultures were nicking each others ideas long before globalisation. China gave the west; paper, gunpowder, the printing press, the ships rudder and the compass to name but a few; though did remarkably little with those innovations themselves for all sorts of interesting local and cultural reasons.

Wibbs

MadYaker wrote: »

You must be living in a different reality so. At that point they’d already tried to silence doctors and then lied to the international community saying there had been no human to human transmission on jan 14th. Did you even look at the article I linked?

Yep. The Chinese government did what they always do, limit information trying to save face and control their people. This is not a shock and it shouldn't be. Where I do agree with a few here is that doesn't absolve western nations from acting like headless chickens now looking for a scapegoat to save some face of their own. The Chinese acted the all to expected way, the west didn't. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore etc were very proactive the second they saw the Chinese virus was getting out of hand and have much better results and fewer deaths and are getting back to normal more quickly because of it.

Hell, there's a thread here on wearing masks in public, which every single one of the nations including a couple in Europe that are weathering this better have gone "well, yeah that's kinda bloody obvious", yet massive resistance here, not least from our own authorities(who will likely backtrack on this too). There was some excuse for that when PPE for medical staff was in short supply, but no excuse for it now. Apparently that's one Asian cultural thing too far for too many.

MadYaker

It’s not China’s fault that the US and Europe failed to prepare adequately. But there’s no doubt that if they’d acted sooner they could have contained this. They did a bloody good job of lockdown in Wuhan when they eventually got around to it.

cryptocurrency

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not China’s fault that the US and Europe failed to prepare adequately. But there’s no doubt that if they’d acted sooner they could have contained this. They did a bloody good job of lockdown in Wuhan when they eventually got around to it.

Please explain, with even a few details how they could have acted sooner and contained this new virus

archer22

Regarding controlling the virus China, Singapore and South Korea put in a far greater effort than any western nation...things such as disinfecting streets, buildings and ATMs that disinfect money etc.

Haven't even heard a mention of money as a potential source of spread here...yet it is an item that is passing everyday from hand to hand.

BanditLuke

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not China’s fault that the US and Europe failed to prepare adequately. But there’s no doubt that if they’d acted sooner they could have contained this. They did a bloody good job of lockdown in Wuhan when they eventually got around to it.

Yeah they did a great job, so what.

All the whataboutary on here is ridiculous. If this had originated from a lab or wet market in say Texas and the Americans had hid it for weeks from the world and actually gone as far as to disappear anyone attempting to warn others this thread would be one hundred times the size it is now. Orange man bad would be out in force.

Did Europe and others screw up the response yes of course they did but that's not the crux of the arguement here.

What China have done to the world is indefensible.

“foreign trash” is trending in China.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not China’s fault that the US and Europe failed to prepare adequately. But there’s no doubt that if they’d acted sooner they could have contained this. They did a bloody good job of lockdown in Wuhan when they eventually got around to it.

Actually, there's plenty of doubt. In the history of epidemics, no contagious virus or disease has been completely contained, and prevented from spreading from it's original nation. China is a huge country with porous land borders with a number of countries, along with a massive economy in port trade... on top of the huge number of daily air traffic.

Now considering that it took ages to determine somewhat how the virus was transmitted, and we've gained some limited methods for determining if someone was infected, there was little chance of containing the virus without completely locking down the country.

What country immediately locked down all their borders (sea, land, air), the moment they heard about the virus? Yup. none of them.. and that's knowing more than China did as the virus was being identified.

So.. what are you basing your belief on.. ?

FVP3

MadYaker wrote: »

You must be living in a different reality so. At that point they’d already tried to silence doctors and then lied to the international community saying there had been no human to human transmission on jan 14th. Did you even look at the article I linked?

At that point they had told the W.H.O about the virus ( by Dec 31st actually).

As for human to human transmission, it's not clear that they knew about it.

In any case it was a week later than Jan 14th that China closed down Wuhan, in what was clearly the biggest shutdown in the world to that time, and probably since.

A quick review of the western media during time and it is either indifference or claims of it all being a hoax, particularly in the US.

So lets say that the Chinese had informed the WHO earlier, in mid December and announced human transmissibility in early Jan, closing down Wuhan in the first week of Jan. Would the west have done better? The answer is no.

China is responsible for the wet markets, alright.

FVP3

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

“foreign trash” is trending in China.

I often wonder where you guys get this information from, its not from a proper understanding of Mandarin I imagine.

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

Yeah they did a great job, so what.

All the whataboutary on here is ridiculous. If this had originated from a lab or wet market in say Texas and the Americans had hid it for weeks from the world and actually gone as far as to disappear anyone attempting to warn others this thread would be one hundred times the size it is now. Orange man bad would be out in force.

Did Europe and others screw up the response yes of course they did but that's not the crux of the arguement here.

What China have done to the world is indefensible.

Strangely enough, I'm finding it extremely easy to defend China against many of the statements being made on this thread.

You mention whataboutary but fail to consider the arguments (and I'm using that definition generously) from the crowd calling for punishments or claiming that China is somehow responsible.

I've yet to hear a solid argument for China being held to be responsible, without it sounding like giving the West a free pass.

cryptocurrency

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

“foreign trash” is trending in China.

Works both ways doesn't it. China has been trending on twitter for weeks and one click will show you some of the most repulsive comments and racism you will ever see.

There has been plenty posters even on here who think the same but tone it down to a boards.ie level but they think the same. It's there, the racism out there now is disgraceful. The attack on the resturant in Galway only made news because the clip was posted. It is the tip of the iceberg.

What social media platform was this on? Weibo?

Bam Bam Mickey

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

“foreign trash” is trending in China.

Why be surprised by this? Chinese people view western media and websites where westerners are commenting about China or the virus. They have access to twitter and instagram... So they can see the sheer amount of criticisms being leveled at China by people online.

The other reason is that there are many stories coming out of China about foreigners breaking the containment protocols, refusing to wear masks, not taking care, congregating in groups, etc.

I saw a video last night of a white foreigner walking around without a mask, and insulting Chinese people passing by, shouting his resistance to the precautions in place. He was verbally and physically aggressive to those who confronted him over his behavior, including police officers. All caught on video. Which has gone viral on Chinese internet sites.

It's no wonder that they're complaining about foreigners. God knows, people online are finding every possible reason to complain about Chinese people, whether justified or not.

archer22

Responsibility does rest with China alright...this was not some unforeseen event and was preventable.
They already knew the risks those hellhole markets posed.

Thats why they closed them after SARS, but then apparently decided to ignore the risks and allowed them to reopen again.

That's gross negligence at the very least.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

Why be surprised by this? Chinese people view western media and websites where westerners are commenting about China or the virus. They have access to twitter and instagram... So they can see the sheer amount of criticisms being leveled at China by people online.

The other reason is that there are many stories coming out of China about foreigners breaking the containment protocols, refusing to wear masks, not taking care, congregating in groups, etc.

I saw a video last night of a white foreigner walking around without a mask, and insulting Chinese people passing by, shouting his resistance to the precautions in place. He was verbally and physically aggressive to those who confronted him over his behavior, including police officers. All caught on video. Which has gone viral on Chinese internet sites.

It's no wonder that they're complaining about foreigners. God knows, people online are finding every possible reason to complain about Chinese people, whether justified or not.

Not surprised, seen some shocking behaviour in China from expats. Never understood the clique of loser expat types who sit in bars in China and do nothing but moan about the place. I have a philosophy on places and as soon as I am bithcing and moaning about it then I know it is time to go. I had my fill of China and jumped to a project in another place.

Nothing worse then a chippy expat. I come to the conclusion that they have nothing to go anywhere else for, limited talent, limited skills and liked the relative status they had in their medicore world.

I had a row one night with a few long term expats in a city in China when I called out some of their behaviour, later I remember being told by one of the more civil on the bunch that they didn't like me because I pointed out their failings and hit a nerve.

cryptocurrency

archer22 wrote: »

Responsibility does rest with China alright...this was not some unforeseen event and was preventable.
They already knew the risks those hellhole markets posed.

Thats why they closed them after SARS, but then apparently decided to ignore the risks and allowed them to reopen again.

That's gross negligence at the very least.

Thats probably the only thing they have been proven of being guilty of so far though.

MadYaker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Please explain, with even a few details how they could have acted sooner and contained this new virus

I already have. You can’t understand what I posted so there’s no point in me trying anymore. Another one for the ignore button I think.

cryptocurrency

MadYaker wrote: »

I already have. You can’t understand what I posted so there’s no point in me trying anymore. Another one for the ignore button I think.

No you haven't. You made vauge statements backed by zero, zilch

MadYaker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No you haven't. You made vauge statements backed by zero, zilch

Ok I’ll try once more. Can you please take at least ten minutes to read this and consider what’s in it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/birth-of-a-pandemic-inside-the-first-weeks-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak-in-wuhan

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

Ok I’ll try once more. Can you please take at least ten minutes to read this and consider what’s in it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/birth-of-a-pandemic-inside-the-first-weeks-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak-in-wuhan

Local incompetence and the typical local Chinese CCP official instinct to save face, followed by a massive response at a national level which suppressed the virus

maninasia

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No you haven't. You made vauge statements backed by zero, zilch

Here's ten mao for the effort.

maninasia

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Thats probably the only thing they have been proven of being guilty of so far though.

It's not, you've been given examples repeatedly.