The Chinese Big Lie

threeball

archer22 wrote: »

The posters on this thread are crazier than a bag of Cats in a Chinese wet market.

Some of the posters you referenced actually thanked your post. Just shows the level of self awareness present.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

Some of the posters you referenced actually thanked your post. Just shows the level of self awareness present.

Not really. Typically, people tend to think that they're the token exception to the rule.

Everyone else is a nutjob and I'm the last bastion for reasonable thought.

And I'd agree that the thread is full of crazy posts..

Beechwoodspark

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No Beechwoodspark, it isn't serious. Nations like the UK, US and France etc..are in zero position to look for reparations as the can of worms it would open for them is a million times bigger.

I disagree.

The focus now is on China and particularly the Party’s response to C19. And wider issues regarding their food chain - wet markets for example.

despite some desperately trying to “take possession of and swing the spotlight” onto other countries.

Wibbs

maninasia wrote: »

你看得懂中文嗎？
那你幹教學我啦
你是說你比我了解中國文化，歷史，方言，因為。。。？
中國人一出生就是愛被政府控低， 就是這樣，沒辦法?


香港，台灣人不考慮因為。。Ÿ˜‚根本不遵循你的理論

過去愛爾蘭人也沒什麼Freedom而且非常窮，甚至哦死了，跟中國人有什麼差別？

Interesting that freedom doesn't have a Chinese character. Or google translate screwed up. I must nip over there and see does "copyright" and "intellectual property" have an equivalent in Mandarin.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Interesting that freedom doesn't have a Chinese character. Or google translate screwed up. I must nip over there and see does "copyright" and "intellectual property" have an equivalent in Mandarin.

It does. The problem is whether they mean the same thing.

maninasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It does. The problem is whether they mean the same thing.

自由 (ziyou) freedom and 民主 (minzhu) democracy. Yeah they mean the same thing in English and yes they are widely used by ethnic Chinese everywhere .

maninasia

maninasia wrote: »

自由 (ziyou) freedom and 民主 (minzhu) democracy. Yeah they mean the same thing in English and yes they are widely used by ethnic Chinese everywhere .

Concepts and interpretations of ideas are often different between culture groups. The word can be the same, but the meaning having subtle differences.

I teach Business Management in English to Chinese students. They know the English words, but their understanding of many words is not the same as my understanding. They're viewing the meaning through the lens of Chinese culture, history, philosophy, social programming, etc. not through the lenses I have (qualifications, work experience, etc).

You can look at the literal meaning of words and assume that everyone follows that... but the reality is that language is shaped by experiences and culture. Typically, a school system will encourage everyone to understand vocabulary in a standardized/controlled manner, but there is a vast difference between western education and Chinese education.

The point is that words are not simply the dictionary definitions. Words become personalized over time, and it is our culture that 'often' determines how people understand or appreciate that word. Many Chinese words have changed their meanings in recent years due to shifts within niche cultures or ccp dogma. Some Chinese will be using the old meaning, whereas others will take the new. So... language cannot be assumed to mean the same thing for everyone...

Besides IMHO Chinese is a very vague language. You speak a sentence to five people in a room. They'll all have a slightly different interpretation of what you mean by it (which is why they love idioms or traditional sayings so much... they provide an anchor for a frame of reference). My favorite being: "Old cow, eats new grass". English, is a far more specific language.. So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy, will have a greater range of possible interpretations.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy, will have a greater range of possible interpretations.

The concept of democracy didn't look very foreign during the Tiananmen Square protest. I guess that was before your time there Klaz.

八九民運

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

The concept of democracy didn't look very foreign during the Tiananmen Square protest. I guess that was before your time there Klaz.

八九民運

Where did I say that democracy was a foreign concept?

Go on. Point it out, and quote me. Without your need to read between the lines, of course. :rolleyes:

China had a short period of Democracy between the fall of the Empire and the rise of the Nationalists... (oh, if you're confused by that, it's before Mao took power)

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

Where did I say that democracy was a foreign concept?

Go on. Point it out, and quote me. Without your need to read between the lines, of course. :rolleyes:

China had a short period of Democracy between the fall of the Empire and the rise of the Nationalists... Duh.

I pointed it out in the previous quote; here it is again.

Deleted User wrote: »

So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy

What does this mean?

八九民運

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

I pointed it out in the previous quote; here it is again.

So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy, will have a greater range of possible interpretations.

Sigh. Nitpicking.

But you're right. My bad. But democracy was originally a foreign concept.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy, will have a greater range of possible interpretations.

Sigh. Nitpicking.

But you're right. My bad. But democracy was originally a foreign concept.

Fair enough, but we can all be sure what democracy the CCP are trying to crush and surpress every year.

Just because the CCP are trying to obscure the idea of democracy, doesn't mean the Chinese don't understand it, or it's completely foreign to them, because it isn't. As long as we agree there!

In truth, what happened in Tiananmen Square is marked faithfully each year by a massive, national act of what might more properly be called "forgettance".

In the weeks leading up to 4 June, the world's biggest censorship machine goes into overdrive as a huge dragnet of automated algorithms and tens of thousands of human expurgators cleanse the internet of any reference, however oblique.

Those deemed to have been too provocative in their attempts to evade the controls can be jailed - with sentences of up to three and a half years recently handed down to a group of men who had tried to commemorate the anniversary with a product label.

More than one million pro-democracy protesters occupied Tiananmen Square in April 1989 and began the largest political demonstration in communist China's history. It lasted six weeks.

Protests spread to cities and universities across the country.

The demonstrators called for greater freedom and democracy and an end to what they called dictatorship - others complained about inflation, salaries and housing.

Source

2u2me

2u2me wrote: »

Fair enough, but we can all be sure what democracy the CCP are trying to crush and surpress every year.

Just because the CCP are trying to obscure the idea of democracy, doesn't mean the Chinese don't understand it, or it's completely foreign to them, because it isn't. As long as we agree there!

Oh, we do agree.

Yurt2

A little history on the Chinese word "自由" or freedom. 自 meaning self, and 由 meaning follow - or to follow oneself.

This word had a meaning in classical Chinese which is probably best explained as "a licence" to do something by your own intent, and had a somewhat negative connotation.

However, during the Meiji reformation era in Japan, when Japanese scholars translated Western political texts they used the term 自由 and repurposed it in the positive self-deteriministic sense. Chinese radicals (and Koreans / Vietnamese) in the late 19th and early 20th century travelled to Tokyo and elsewhere in their droves (including Sun Yat-Sen, the father of modern China) as it was seen as a model of Asian political reform and potential and coopted the characters 自由 into a political neolgisim in the Chinese language*. So the modern use of the term is unambiguous in the political sense. Chinese reformers from Guangzhou to Shanghai (including Communists) were literate in the neologism and a generation of Chinese reformers were by no means ignorant to its meaning as they debated how society should be reformed.

The Work Study Movement where future communist party leaders like Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai travelled to France to work in factories and study western political thought (among Chinese radicals of all stripes) would have been highly literate with the neologism and its political context also.

To say the that the word 自由 has some sort of esoteric amibiguous ancient meaning that can only be understood by spending seven years studying poetry under the tutelage of a whispy bearded man in a mountaintop temple in Sichuan is to engage in orientalism and to think that Eastern cultures are some sort of uncrackable code (something the CCP has tried to convince Westerners of late - "you just don't understand China" - and some foreigners not really wanting to understand take the soup and go along with it).

Ethnic Chinese in HK, Taiwan and in diaspora use the word in the context we understand it and it rests easily on their political cultures and the way they view the world.

*文化 or culture, is another commonly used neologism that one would presume is a lot older so frequently is it used in modern Chinese that came from this process of translation and adoption. Nobody is claiming this has some foggy meaning as it is not as politically charged.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

A little history on the Chinese word "自由" or freedom. 自 meaning self, and 由 meaning follow - or to follow oneself.
.

Great explanation.

maninasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, (in Chinese) concepts which might be foreign, such as democracy, will have a greater range of possible interpretations.

Sigh. Nitpicking.

But you're right. My bad. But democracy was originally a foreign concept.

He caught you out big time. Couldn't even remember your last post.

cryptocurrency

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I disagree.

The focus now is on China and particularly the Party’s response to C19. And wider issues regarding their food chain - wet markets for example.

despite some desperately trying to “take possession of and swing the spotlight” onto other countries.

It's the focus now because all the crackpot ideas fell on there backside, so it's now China in general...which when projected by the media and the politicians just becomes the Chinese in general. It's dog-whistle racism as they know deep down it works to drum up a shockingly large amount of racists who walk amongst us.

Remember all those middle-class morons who piped up with what they perceived as the new socially acceptable anti-Muslim racism post 9/11....we it's all unfolding again. They are getting so confident that this is now the new acceptable opinion you even have professionals starting posts on Linkedin just to be utter di""s and let the likes roll in.

There has been a strong whiff of it in this thread for about 120 off pages now.

MadYaker

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.amp.html

First death in the USA now confirmed to be on February 6th. It’s 4 to 6 weeks from infection to death so that means the virus was in the USA in early January at the latest, probably December.

But yeah according to the CCP they had their first case in December 31st was it? Sure they did. I think even more Chinese lies will be discovered as this continues.

blinding

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's the focus now because all the crackpot ideas fell on there backside, so it's now China in general...which when projected by the media and the politicians just becomes the Chinese in general. It's dog-whistle racism as they know deep down it works to drum up a shockingly large amount of racists who walk amongst us.

Remember all those middle-class morons who piped up with what they perceived as the new socially acceptable anti-Muslim racism post 9/11....we it's all unfolding again. They are getting so confident that this is now the new acceptable opinion you even have professionals starting posts on Linkedin just to be utter di""s and let the likes roll in.

There has been a strong whiff of it in this thread for about 120 off pages now.

Only A Communist would want to give the Chinese Communist Party a Free Ride.

The vast vast Majority of People feel sorry for the Chinese people under the Jackboot of the Chinese Communist Party.

The vast vast majority of People have nothing against the Chinese People. Why would they ? ?

MadYaker

I’ve nothing against the Chinese. I love spicebags. It’s the Chinese government that’s the problem not the ordinary Chinese citizens. They suffered through this the same as all of us. Even worse in Wuhan.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.amp.html

First death in the USA now confirmed to be on February 6th. It’s 4 to 6 weeks from infection to death so that means the virus was in the USA in early January at the latest, probably December.

But yeah according to the CCP they had their first case in December 31st was it? Sure they did. I think even more Chinese lies will be discovered as this continues.

Unless the CCP belief that the virus didn't originate in China is true. It's possible that they were just the first ones to detect this current strain of covid, and that previous deaths in other countries were labeled as something else. There's no absolute evidence that the virus started in China (yet). It's only that it was detected in China.

Personally, considering the numbers of people who feel that they had the virus already (before it spread from Wuhan), it's very possible that there was another strain of the virus in the world. At this stage, anything is possible considering the lack of evidence to show the definite origin of covid (if we ever manage to find out for sure).

blinding wrote: »

Only A Communist would want to give the Chinese Communist Party a Free Ride.

I don't think anyone is. There is a difference between being realistic and giving them a free ride. Demanding punishments or that the CCP should be abolished would be unrealistic.

The vast vast Majority of People feel sorry for the Chinese people under the Jackboot of the Chinese Communist Party.

I'm highly doubtful of that, since a large percentage of the population are members of the CCP and gain benefits from their membership. I suspect the majority of people don't care in the slightest... and those that do care, will have their own reasons.. and within those reasons, will be people pushing various agendas.

The vast vast majority of People have nothing against the Chinese People. Why would they ? ?

The vast majority of people couldn't care less about China or the Chinese people... until it directly affects them. At that stage their ignorance or lack of knowledge kicks in, and they're easily swayed by stereotypes/generalisations.

In any case, it's not the vast majority of people criticizing Chinese people, or complaining.... It's a very vocal minority. That's what the internet does. It gives the impression that more people are interested than there really is. Same with the media. They're vocal, and in your face, but they're still a minority, and hardly representative of what most people think.

cryptocurrency

MadYaker wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.amp.html

First death in the USA now confirmed to be on February 6th. It’s 4 to 6 weeks from infection to death so that means the virus was in the USA in early January at the latest, probably December.

But yeah according to the CCP they had their first case in December 31st was it? Sure they did. I think even more Chinese lies will be discovered as this continues.

A UK advisor has acknowledged that there was an international effort sharing info around the start of January for a few weeks and if you were to see that they has cases that they didn't know what it was weeks earlier.

They need to find cases in November, hidden to even start with their no win no fee case for compensation.

What is the expiry date for these claims to be lodged? Do the Brits and the Viking countries need to be worried here? Or is it two years?

cryptocurrency

blinding wrote: »

Only A Communist would want to give the Chinese Communist Party a Free Ride.

The vast vast Majority of People feel sorry for the Chinese people under the Jackboot of the Chinese Communist Party.

The vast vast majority of People have nothing against the Chinese People. Why would they ? ?

Nobody is giving anyone a free ride, but anyone with a brain doesn't pin stuff in horrible regimes just for the sake of it. That's the whole point. Shouting Commie at people just makes you look like at 16 year old from Alabama.

BanditLuke

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's the focus now because all the crackpot ideas fell on there backside, so it's now China in general...which when projected by the media and the politicians just becomes the Chinese in general. It's dog-whistle racism as they know deep down it works to drum up a shockingly large amount of racists who walk amongst us.

Remember all those middle-class morons who piped up with what they perceived as the new socially acceptable anti-Muslim racism post 9/11....we it's all unfolding again. They are getting so confident that this is now the new acceptable opinion you even have professionals starting posts on Linkedin just to be utter di""s and let the likes roll in.

There has been a strong whiff of it in this thread for about 120 off pages now.

Yes yes wacism we hear ya.

BanditLuke

MadYaker wrote: »

I’ve nothing against the Chinese. I love spicebags. It’s the Chinese government that’s the problem not the ordinary Chinese citizens. They suffered through this the same as all of us. Even worse in Wuhan.

The China bots here know what. They want to turn this into some kind of race thing the sad sacks of you know what.

This is about the CCP always has been but deflect deflect deflect.....

cryptocurrency

BanditLuke wrote: »

Yes yes wacism we hear ya.

Seems your usual role was reversed Abanditluke, you are usually butt hurt

BanditLuke

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Seems your usual role was reversed Abanditluke, you are usually butt hurt

Butt hurt?

Is that an American teenager saying or what.

BanditLuke

2u2me wrote: »

The concept of democracy didn't look very foreign during the Tiananmen Square protest. I guess that was before your time there Klaz.

八九民運

That's racist. Reported.

cryptocurrency

BanditLuke wrote: »

The China bots here know what. They want to turn this into some kind of race thing the sad sacks of you know what.

This is about the CCP always has been but deflect deflect deflect.....

I think you are the one deflecting from the shambles, the deaths and using childlike terms like bot for those who disagree

BanditLuke

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think you are the one deflecting from the shambles, the deaths and using childlike terms like bot for those who disagree

Yeah you are right, butt hurt is so mature and not child like at all.

You are deflecting from your beloved CCP trying to pass the blame to Europe, US and anyone but China.

The thread title is "The Chinese big lie" not the awful response of the west.