The Chinese Big Lie

tuxy

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Why those 188 countries recognise North/South Korea while not Taiwan? Maybe Taiwan is an evil "country/region"?

No it's because China is powerful and has a lot of influence. Not many countries willing to take the economic hit on angering China.

riffmongous

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Why those 188 countries recognise North/South Korea while not Taiwan? Maybe Taiwan is an evil "country/region"?

Is it not because they claimed to be the official representation of mainland China? The name of the country is not Taiwan either

auspicious

Summer2020 wrote: »

I wish people would let us know that they’re daily mail links that they’re posting. I refuse to read that rag.

Lol I hesitated alright. Read article on National Geographic but when I went back to add link this was first search return. Same info. They picked it up from more reputable sources. But the photo used by Mail was more graphic. More real.

It's just beyond insanity and just a continued middle finger by the CCP to the world reeling from the deaths, social upheaval and economic fallout almost certainly caused by traditional Chinese anachronisms. A complete contradiction to the new laws passed in Shenzhen regarding the consumption of cats and dogs to somewhat appease 'outside' concerns.

tuxy

riffmongous wrote: »

Is it not because they claimed to be the official representation of mainland China? The name of the country is not Taiwan either

Good point. Yes they call the country the Republic of China because as you said they consider themselves the legitimate ruler over all of China.
With both sides claiming all of China, UN nations had to pick the more sane option to recognise.

Kivaro

skellig_rocks wrote: »

And what did this guy say on December 2019 in his chat group?

To me, this man is the defining symbol of Covid-19.
He did everything right; at least he tried.
Dr Li Wenliang alerted his colleagues on what was happening with this new virus and his reward was a summons to the Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign a letter retracting his "false comments". He was reprimanded for "spreading rumours".

Dr Li Wenliang was 34 years young when he died from Covid-19.
Let's remember him for the hero that he was:

auspicious

Xertz wrote: »

And mainstream medicine uses synthesised ursodeoxycholic acid as a drug.
There's absolutely no need to extract it by torturing bears!

Yes and its only application to dissolve/break up gall stones.

skellig_rocks

tuxy wrote: »

No it's because China is powerful and has a lot of influence. Not many countries willing to take the economic hit on angering China.

If this is the attitude of the governments around the world (kowtow to CCP), No wonder why we (especially the West) are in crisis:


https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

Taiwan says WHO failed to act on coronavirus transmission warning



Relationship with Beijing blamed for not sharing alert over human-to-human infection


Health officials in Taipei said they alerted the WHO at the end of December about the risk of human-to-human transmission of the new virus but said its concerns were not passed on to other countries.

fryup

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Coronavirus: China’s first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17 - South China Morning Post - A pro China newspaper

a year ago according to this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju9K6Sl2izI

Scarinae

Deleted User wrote: »

No, raw material s come out of places like Australia, south America and even Ireland mines a huge volume of lead and zinc. Large even on a global scale. Biggest lead zinc mine in Europe is in navan.

It isn't quite as simple as that. China is the biggest producer of rare earth elements, which are required for technology such as mobile phones, computers, TV monitors and electric/hybrid vehicles. China accounts for over 95% of world production of rare earths.

zig

The Western sense of invincibility is why its such a disaster now outside China.

We watched on China locked down, and I mean really locked down a city of 11 million people, no one in, no one out, only one person in the household can leave the house every two days for food.

And then theres the subject of masks. The fact is if EVERYONE wore masks it would dramatically slow the spread. This cant be denied because there are so many going around asymptomatic.

Its now Western arrogance to presume that it wasnt in fact our liberal attitude to it but instead a Chinese cover up.

tuxy

zig wrote: »

The Western sense of invincibility is why its such a disaster now outside China.

We watched on China locked down, and I mean really locked down a city of 11 million people, no one in, no one out, only one person in the household can leave the house every two days for food.

And then theres the subject of masks. The fact is if EVERYONE wore masks it would dramatically slow the spread. This cant be denied because there are so many going around asymptomatic.

Its now Western arrogance to presume that it wasnt in fact our liberal attitude to it but instead a Chinese cover up.

I think that is a factor alright. Lets face it most people, myself included considered epidemics as something that only happens in the developing world.

DeVore

FVP3 wrote: »

You people are quite deranged. A non political organisation that is head quartered in Geneva is apparently controlled by China merely because it refuses to bow down to US/UK propaganda on the number cases in China. There's a reason why the US has set its propaganda dogs on the attack - once US numbers climbed above the Chinese numbers it was a huge embarrassment and so the numbers were disputed immediately, mostly based on an argument to incredulity or neo-mccarthyism.

Unfortunately pretty soon its not going to be possible to deny that the number of dead in USA is far worse than China.

zig

zig wrote: »

The Western sense of invincibility is why its such a disaster now outside China.

We watched on China locked down, and I mean really locked down a city of 11 million people, no one in, no one out, only one person in the household can leave the house every two days for food.

And then theres the subject of masks. The fact is if EVERYONE wore masks it would dramatically slow the spread. This cant be denied because there are so many going around asymptomatic.

Its now Western arrogance to presume that it wasnt in fact our liberal attitude to it but instead a Chinese cover up.

I keep hearing this. Where is the peer reviewed evidence for this? This is all based on presumptions?

If everybody started wearing masks, we wouldn't have enough in hospital. 1/4 of SARS-CoV-2 patients in Ireland are front line workers. This would get significantly worse if PPE continues to be in short supply.

Been blunt here. It's more important that front line workers have access to PPE because we can't socially distance ourselves from patients.

BarryD2

zig wrote: »

The Western sense of invincibility is why its such a disaster now outside China.

We watched on China locked down, and I mean really locked down a city of 11 million people, no one in, no one out, only one person in the household can leave the house every two days for food.

And then theres the subject of masks. The fact is if EVERYONE wore masks it would dramatically slow the spread. This cant be denied because there are so many going around asymptomatic.

Its now Western arrogance to presume that it wasnt in fact our liberal attitude to it but instead a Chinese cover up.

There's validity in that. But look at the development curves of the disease as reported by China. They just make no sense, given what other states have found out about it. Even with the extra restrictions of personal movement, it looks impossible that on paper that they stopped the development more or less stone dead in its tracks. Who knows what's happening there. But it will come out in due course.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

I keep hearing this. Where is the peer reviewed evidence for this? This is all based on presumptions?

There is decades of evidence that mask reduce risk of transmitting and contracting disease. Or do medical workers wear them for the craic like? Here's a paper on the risk factors around SARS. Those who caught it were more likely to have visited hospitals, eaten outside the home and took regular taxi trips. They also found masks to be "strongly protective".

And before the "oh that's in perfect use in clinical settings". OK. But let's take handwashing which is being drummed into us as a risk reducer, and it is. How many are actually washing their hands correctly? How many are washing their hands when they should be? How many are contaminating their hands after they wash them? There are a lot of people applying hand washing imperfectly, but it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

Take social distancing. Go to any supermarket or shop still open and you are guaranteed to see people getting closer than two metres from each other. And often too. So social distancing isn't of perfect use either, but again it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

But masks, which have been proven for decades to reduce the risks of contagion are somehow magically suddenly useless? Bollocks.

Look the masks advice has always been about supply and lack thereof for medical workers, not efficacy in the community. That's it.

tuxy

Would it be possible for everyone to wear masks while outside their home as of next week without reducing supply to medical workers?
Or perhaps the week after?

BanditLuke

tuxy wrote: »

No it's because China is powerful and has a lot of influence. Not many countries willing to take the economic hit on angering China.

That's why it must be a universal decision by all nations to send them back to the dark ages.

tuxy

BanditLuke wrote: »

That's why it must be a universal decision by all nations to send them back to the dark ages.

Isn't it markets from the dark ages that may have started this?

2u2me

Wibbs wrote: »

That's far more likely to happen in an open air market with butchering going on.Never mind that it seems to be more pangolins involved as the initial animal vector to humans, not bats and IIRC the genetics of the virus suggest that.

I was led to believe that bats have a history of transmitting corona virus to humans via another animal which is believed to be a pangolin in this case.
Pangolin being the only other animal to have tested for this corona virus other than bats right now.

I'd not trust their rosey pictures either. Now American can be hard to judge from outside, but triple that for China.

Normally I'd be with you here Wibbs, they have committed numerous atrocities ranging from harvesting prisoners for their organs, internment camps for Muslims, Xi Jinping making himself leader for life, their treatment of Hong Kong, Taiwan, South China Sea..etc....

But I just can't see any reason to lie in this case. They were initially in lie and denial mode but this seems to have changed quickly when they released the genome of the virus to the world in January. Their numbers seem to be adding up especially considering the restrictions that have put in place.

Here is a youtuber I like Thunderf00t, he is apolitical scientist and just can't see any problems with the chinese numbers.
It just all adds up to me, but perhaps will be proven wrong.

FVP3

BanditLuke wrote: »

That's why it must be a universal decision by all nations to send them back to the dark ages.

All the nations probably wouldn't include the BRICS ( which you are free to goggle), now would it? Or most of Africa. Or South America.

Outside of a few US dominated countries there's no real hatred of China.

Here's a clip of Italians singing the Chinese national anthem on receiving supplies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKsA2jbwlk

Then there's the Serbs:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/china/news/serbia-turns-to-china-due-to-lack-of-eu-solidarity-on-coronavirus/

Hungarians:

https://www.ft.com/content/251314b5-8d6a-4665-a14b-0110dd88754c

So all the countries would apparently be Brexit Britain, the US, and a few lads with hurleys.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

There is decades of evidence that mask reduce risk of transmitting and contracting disease. Or do medical workers wear them for the craic like? Here's a paper on the risk factors around SARS. Those who caught it were more likely to have visited hospitals, eaten outside the home and took regular taxi trips. They also found masks to be "strongly protective".

And before the "oh that's in perfect use in clinical settings". OK. But let's take handwashing which is being drummed into us as a risk reducer, and it is. How many are actually washing their hands correctly? How many are washing their hands when they should be? How many are contaminating their hands after they wash them? There are a lot of people applying hand washing imperfectly, but it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

Take social distancing. Go to any supermarket or shop still open and you are guaranteed to see people getting closer than two metres from each other. And often too. So social distancing isn't of perfect use either, but again it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

But masks, which have been proven for decades to reduce the risks of contagion are somehow magically suddenly useless? Bollocks.

Look the masks advice has always been about supply and lack thereof for medical workers, not efficacy in the community. That's it.

Which goes back to the point that the main benefit of masks is that it stops a infected person spreading the disease. If you are asymtomatic, you will have less viral shedding. People using masks inappropriately are putting health care workers and ultimately patients in hospital at risk of negative outcomes. If you are going for a walk in the park and respecting social distancing, you do not need to be wearing a mask.

I'm currently have to use a surgical mask that is only effective for 3-4 hours all day due to shortage of PPE whilst interacting with covid-19 patients. However on my walk home yesterday, I seen 3 people walking along the canal wearing FFP3 masks. It makes you shake your head in dismay.

FVP3

FVP3 wrote: »

All the nations probably wouldn't include the BRICS ( which you are free to goggle), now would it? Or most of Africa. Or South America.

Outside of a few US dominated countries there's no real hatred of China.

Here's a clip of Italians singing the Chinese national anthem on receiving supplies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKsA2jbwlk

Then there's the Serbs

https://www.euractiv.com/section/china/news/serbia-turns-to-china-due-to-lack-of-eu-solidarity-on-coronavirus/

So all the countries would apparently be Brexit Britain, the US, and a few lads with hurleys.

The hatred of china,most certainly isnt a thing(they are lying about death rate mind)...

.but the italians singing the chinese national anthem is as beleivable as the video of em singing cheryl coles fight for your love :pac: :pac:

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Which goes back to the point that the main benefit of masks is that it stops a infected person spreading the disease. If you are asymtomatic, you will have less viral shedding. People using masks inappropriately are putting health care workers and ultimately patients in hospital at risk of negative outcomes. If you are going for a walk in the park and respecting social distancing, you do not need to be wearing a mask.

I'm currently have to use a surgical mask that is only effective for 3-4 hours all day due to shortage of PPE whilst interacting with covid-19 patients. However on my walk home yesterday, I seen 3 people walking along the canal wearing FFP3 masks. It makes you shake your head in dismay.

1) blame the health authorities for not having sufficient supplies for their workers, not the private buyer(who either had them already, or paid through the nose for them). 2) How do we know any of those three people were not asymptomatic carriers? We don't. If one was then wearing the mask would cut down risk to others. Though I would agree out in the open air is overkill until supplies are solid, but in shops and supermarkets and other indoor settings, a good thing.

skellig_rocks

FVP3 wrote: »

Here's a clip of Italians singing the Chinese national anthem on receiving supplies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKsA2jbwlk

I thought this was a fake news from China


https://www.linkiesta.it/2020/03/coronavirus-cina-italia-fake-news/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Abbiamo altre emergenze, altri problemi e magari ci sarà anche stato qualcuno che ha urlato grazie Cina, ma se fossimo un paese serio la Farnesina e il ministro che disgraziatamente la guida si farebbero sentire per intimare Pechino di smetterla di diffondere fake news e altro sulla nostra pelle.

FVP3

It seems pretty clear to me that the US world order is falling apart, and not before time given the genocide and the destabilization it has caused in our near neighbourhood -- the middle east and North Africa.

US supremacism wants everywhere to be like the US, not just in economic terms ( so Venezuela can't be socialist), but in the very makeup of the countries -- Hungary and all European countries have to be multi-cultural.

The first job in fighting the enemy is knowing the enemy. It isn't, for Europe, the Chinese. What China does in the South China sea affects me not one whit, what the US does in Libya and Iraq and Syria destabilizes Europe.

Besides that if we reject their ideological apparatus the discourse would be much saner, left and right.

FVP3

Deleted User wrote: »

The hatred of china,most certainly isnt a thing(they are lying about death rate mind)...

.but the italians singing the chinese national anthem is as believable as the video of em singing cheryl coles fight for your love :pac: :pac:

I mean it could be a fake, I don't know the chinese anthem but somebody is singing something there.

lainey_d_123

Wibbs wrote: »

There is decades of evidence that mask reduce risk of transmitting and contracting disease. Or do medical workers wear them for the craic like? Here's a paper on the risk factors around SARS. Those who caught it were more likely to have visited hospitals, eaten outside the home and took regular taxi trips. They also found masks to be "strongly protective".

And before the "oh that's in perfect use in clinical settings". OK. But let's take handwashing which is being drummed into us as a risk reducer, and it is. How many are actually washing their hands correctly? How many are washing their hands when they should be? How many are contaminating their hands after they wash them? There are a lot of people applying hand washing imperfectly, but it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

Take social distancing. Go to any supermarket or shop still open and you are guaranteed to see people getting closer than two metres from each other. And often too. So social distancing isn't of perfect use either, but again it is still overall recognised as a vital link in the lowering risk chain.

But masks, which have been proven for decades to reduce the risks of contagion are somehow magically suddenly useless? Bollocks.

Look the masks advice has always been about supply and lack thereof for medical workers, not efficacy in the community. That's it.

100% this.

I can't believe how many supposedly intelligent people fell for what is essentially fake news that masks do nothing, to the extent they mock people for wearing them. Do they think we in the west are so superior to entire Asian nations who wear them any time they have a bit of a cold? Or those who enforce mask wearing to enter supermarkets and so on during this outbreak?

You'd have to be pretty thick not to see how covering your nose and mouth, preventing you accidentally touching them and hugely reducing the chance of droplets entering your nose or mouth, would make it less likely to get sick.

bob mcbob

FVP3 wrote: »

All the nations probably wouldn't include the BRICS ( which you are free to goggle), now would it? Or most of Africa. Or South America.

Outside of a few US dominated countries there's no real hatred of China.

Here's a clip of Italians singing the Chinese national anthem on receiving supplies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKsA2jbwlk

Then there's the Serbs:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/china/news/serbia-turns-to-china-due-to-lack-of-eu-solidarity-on-coronavirus/

Hungarians:

https://www.ft.com/content/251314b5-8d6a-4665-a14b-0110dd88754c

So all the countries would apparently be Brexit Britain, the US, and a few lads with hurleys.

Seriously, you think the India likes China. The last military skirmish was 3 years ago.

China trying to grab all the South China Sea means that all the countries in that area from Vietnam to Japan are hostile. Throw in Oz and New Zealand and you have a lot of hostile neighbours.

China bribing the African government officials so that they can loot the natural resources means that the Governments may be supportive but the not populations.

When the truth comes out about the Chinese lies with Covid then the queue of people lining up against the CCP will be very long indeed.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Which goes back to the point that the main benefit of masks is that it stops a infected person spreading the disease. If you are asymtomatic, you will have less viral shedding. People using masks inappropriately are putting health care workers and ultimately patients in hospital at risk of negative outcomes. If you are going for a walk in the park and respecting social distancing, you do not need to be wearing a mask.

I'm currently have to use a surgical mask that is only effective for 3-4 hours all day due to shortage of PPE whilst interacting with covid-19 patients. However on my walk home yesterday, I seen 3 people walking along the canal wearing FFP3 masks. It makes you shake your head in dismay.

It's essentially none of your business what other people wear. Blame the health service and the government for not investing properly, not individuals. You don't know what underlying conditions those people might have. I have friends with conditions like MS and who are undergoing chemo who wear masks like that when they have to go out.

Yurt2

FVP3 wrote: »

Outside of a few US dominated countries there's no real hatred of China.

Here's a clip of Italians singing the Chinese national anthem on receiving supplies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKsA2jbwlk

Then there's the Serbs:
.

Hatred is the wrong word, but most countries in China's neighborhood are deeply suspicious of them (to be clear, the government not Chinese people). They play ball because China is an important centre of growth now, but that shouldn't be confused with trusting or even liking the CCP. Vietnam in particular isn't putting up with Chinese maritime claims, nor should they.

The Italian video was found to be fake by the way, debunked by many people and spread on Twitter by bots.