The Chinese Big Lie

bob mcbob

FVP3 wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me that the US world order is falling apart, and not before time given the genocide and the destabilization it has caused in our near neighbourhood -- the middle east and North Africa.

US supremacism wants everywhere to be like the US, not just in economic terms ( so Venezuela can't be socialist), but in the very makeup of the countries -- Hungary and all European countries have to be multi-cultural.

The first job in fighting the enemy is knowing the enemy. It isn't, for Europe, the Chinese. What China does in the South China sea affects me not one whit, what the US does in Libya and Iraq and Syria destabilizes Europe.

Besides that if we reject their ideological apparatus the discourse would be much saner, left and right.

I think if Covid has shown one thing it is how small a world we live in. So we can no longer ignore the actions of a paranoid, incompetent, aggressive government who have killed millions of there own people (cultural revolution, Tiananmen Square) in living memory.

Oh America is by no means perfect but given the choice, I will stick with them thank you very much.

jam_mac_jam

Yurt! wrote: »

Hatred is the wrong word, but most countries in China's neighborhood are deeply suspicious of them (to be clear, the government not Chinese people). They play ball because China is an important centre of growth now, but that shouldn't be confused with trusting or even liking the CCP. Vietnam in particular isn't putting up with Chinese maritime claims, nor should they.

The Italian video was found to be fake by the way, debunked by many people and spread on Twitter by bots.

That video is so stupid. As if Italians know the Chinese national anthem.

DeVore

Masks would be useful if they werent in short supply.

I dont know why it was decided they wouldnt help. Even badly fitted they should be some benefit.

Now, there are masks and there are masks. I use .3 micron PPE face masks for some of the stuff I do with wood and toxic resins etc. Its viciously nasty stuff you dont want in your lungs. (Its a sensitizer too, so any amount of it makes you more sensitive to it... lovely!).
Comparing my active charcoal .3 micron mask and say, a store bought "d-cup on yer gob" mask... well there IS no comparison. Its probably more useful as a physical block to stop you picking your teeth or rubbing your nose). Is there *some* benefit? yeah probably but imho more from that physical block than any protection from its filtering.
So, as far as store bought ones go, hey... knock yourself out. They're pretty useless to the medical community and you might get some protection from them.

However, given the shortage of N95 masks it makes sense to optimise on the "most good for the most at risk" and save them for the people on the front lines. They go through them very very quickly unfortunately but they are many many many times more at risk than the general populace so even given that they are only wearing the masks for maybe a few minutes (say, while de-ventilating a patient), they are huuugely more at risk for that time so the usefulness of the PPE is going to be in favour of their usage of it.

Finally, viral-load is a factor. Viral-load is literally the amount of this virus you get into you in a single infection. If you were to only get one single copy of the virus your immune system has a shot at simply kicking its ass before it gets a hold. If you get the viral infection equivalent of a shotgun blast of many thousands of viruses (say from having your face 5 inches from a patient you are de-ventilating) well... youre immune system has feck all chance of cleaning that mess up!

So, "the most good for the most at risk of the most useful people" says give them to the front line workers.

But agreed, I cant see why people have been told they dont do any good apart from trying to deter them from mass panic buying them and draining the resources.

jmayo

tuxy wrote: »

No it's because China is powerful and has a lot of influence. Not many countries willing to take the economic hit on angering China.

It is similar to how the West actually helped and tolerated Pol Pot.
Instead of him being dragged to a court for mass genocide he was in US military hospitals, firstly because he was the enemy of bad old Vietnam and secondly because one of China's allies.

Scarinae wrote: »

It isn't quite as simple as that. China is the biggest producer of rare earth elements, which are required for technology such as mobile phones, computers, TV monitors and electric/hybrid vehicles. China accounts for over 95% of world production of rare earths.

Would it be more correct to say Tibet is the biggest producer of some rare earth elements ?

jmayo

tuxy wrote: »

Would it be possible for everyone to wear masks while outside their home as of next week without reducing supply to medical workers?
Or perhaps the week after?

Listen a huge amount of health care staff do not have masks.

One of the biggest groups of healthcare workers to get it are applied healthcare workers (i.e. physiotherapists, occupational therapists, etc) because they are in longer close proximity to patients who have it.
They often don't know at the time that the patients have it and they have no masks to wear.

Also they are being told they can only get masks to wear if they have confirmed case, not even in the case if they think the patient has it.

It is a disaster waiting to happen and why so many healthcare workers have come down with it.

Also from what I am hearing some nursing homes are a fooking disgrace with no real proper distancing and that can be why some have become clusterfooks as I call them.
I know distancing is hard for some old people, but when they don't seem to give a fook about people visiting for work reasons then there is no hope.

EDIT: btw just saw on RTE that some of the stuff from China is substandard.
Poor material and short sleeved.

They really are pulling the p*** and the fact they are shipping unreliable shyte to Europe to make themselves look good is going to backfire.
Folks the lesson from this is remove our over-reliance on Red China.
It is up to all of us to start looking at where things are made and shopping for non Chinese goods.
If the people lead multinationals will have no option but to follow.
In other words for a start ditch the iphones, huawei and buy Samsung.

Wibbs

jmayo wrote: »

EDIT: btw just saw on RTE that some of the stuff from China is substandard.
Poor material and short sleeved.

They really are pulling the p*** and the fact they are shipping unreliable shyte to Europe to make themselves look good is going to backfire.
Folks the lesson from this is remove our over-reliance on Red China.
It is up to all of us to start looking at where things are made and shopping for non Chinese goods.
If the people lead multinationals will have no option but to follow.
In other words for a start ditch the iphones, huawei and buy Samsung.

Sony and LG are others not made in China IIRC? And yep I agree. I've been trying to do so for years. I just take issue with giving my hard earned to totalitarian states, pandemic or no.

BanditLuke

FVP3 wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me that the US world order is falling apart, and not before time given the genocide and the destabilization it has caused in our near neighbourhood -- the middle east and North Africa.

US supremacism wants everywhere to be like the US, not just in economic terms ( so Venezuela can't be socialist), but in the very makeup of the countries -- Hungary and all European countries have to be multi-cultural.

The first job in fighting the enemy is knowing the enemy. It isn't, for Europe, the Chinese. What China does in the South China sea affects me not one whit, what the US does in Libya and Iraq and Syria destabilizes Europe.

Besides that if we reject their ideological apparatus the discourse would be much saner, left and right.

Okay comrade

tuxy

Wibbs wrote: »

Sony and LG are others not made in China IIRC? And yep I agree. I've been trying to do so for years. I just take issue with giving my hard earned to totalitarian states, pandemic or no.

Companies like LG and Sony will make different parts all over the world which will always include China.

Wibbs

tuxy wrote: »

Companies like LG and Sony will make different parts all over the world which will always include China.

Sadly yes T. The Chinese manufacturing tick is dug in deep, but we can all personally reduce our spending on wholly made in China stuff. EG A load of clothes are Chinese in origin, just check the labels and buy clothes that are made elsewhere.

skellig_rocks

Wibbs wrote: »

Sadly yes T. The Chinese manufacturing tick is dug in deep, but we can all personally reduce our spending on wholly made in China stuff. EG A load of clothes are Chinese in origin, just check the labels and buy clothes that are made elsewhere.

SuperRabbit

Wibbs wrote: »

Sadly yes T. The Chinese manufacturing tick is dug in deep, but we can all personally reduce our spending on wholly made in China stuff. EG A load of clothes are Chinese in origin, just check the labels and buy clothes that are made elsewhere.

Can I just be a bit crazy and say maybe all of us already have enough clothes.

H&M burn their unsold clothes because no developing country even want them they have so much clothes already, charity shops get so many that most of it gets sold to be turned into rags, they don't even bother opening the bags to look at the stuff because they have no space for it

thebaz

Is it all not very suspicious that as rest of the world faces its greatest Humanitarian and Economic crisis in decades, that China , where virus originated, is miraclously getting back to normality and sending the rest of world supplies (some that are even faulty) -
nothing against the Chinese people , but the CCP is my suspicion, ther statistics do not add up to whats happeing in rest of world, and how were they able to just contain virus within one region and it did not spread into its bigger cities prior to Jan 27 - and as the rest of the world is in crisis they are heading back to near normality.
When all countrys run out of money in a few months, as will likely happen if things continue as they are for 6 months, where will they get ther money ?
Possibly Large loans from China, but at what cost, as the West could be on its knee.
All this isolation is making me deeply suspicious and worried.

Airyfairy12

So apparently, according to the news and hospital staff, nearly all of the PPE ordered from China that cost millions is unusable and not of a good standard. WTF is going on? That is crazy.

tuxy

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

So apparently, according to the news and hospital staff, nearly all of the PPE ordered from China that cost millions is unusable and not of a good standard. WTF is going on? That is crazy.

I've seen reports that say some, I've not heard that nearly all is.

Any source on that?

Wibbs

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

So apparently, according to the news and hospital staff, nearly all of the PPE ordered from China that cost millions is unusable and not of a good standard. WTF is going on? That is crazy.

From my reading of the news it's some of the PPE is unsuitable, specifically a batch of the gowns.

RTÉ News understands that some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns that are three-quarter length on the arm.

Away With The Fairies

Wibbs wrote: »

From my reading of the news it's some of the PPE is unsuitable, specifically a batch of the gowns.

RTÉ News understands that some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns that are three-quarter length on the arm.

The Chinese bought masks, gloves, sanitizer, hand soap from other countries and sending us defective PPE. Even they don't trust their own products.

Airyfairy12

Wibbs wrote: »

From my reading of the news it's some of the PPE is unsuitable, specifically a batch of the gowns.

RTÉ News understands that some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns that are three-quarter length on the arm.

Posts from nurses are being shared on social media. I know some of the nurses myself who are posting about this. Theyre saying the masks are very low quality and the gowns are extremely flimsy and too small.

It's like they ordered everything off Wish.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Posts from nurses are being shared on social media. I know some of the nurses myself who are posting about this. Theyre saying the masks are very low quality and the gowns are extremely flimsy and too small.

It's like they ordered everything off Wish.

I seen pic earlier,i wouldnt wrap my sandwiches in that material

Away With The Fairies

I hope our hospital staff get sorted with proper PPE. We need these people.

With automation advances there is no need for quite a lot of manufacturing to be in China and poorer countries. Aside from the benefits of lax environmental laws the benefits of lower costs isn't what it once was.

Venom

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Posts from nurses are being shared on social media. I know some of the nurses myself who are posting about this. Theyre saying the masks are very low quality and the gowns are extremely flimsy and too small.

It's like they ordered everything off Wish.

Whoever was in charge of the order obviously never ordered clothes from China before, as you always have to pick two sizes bigger than normal for the stuff to fit.

SEPT 23 1989

They will be held in the same esteem as Germany and Japan were in the middle of the last century when this is all over

Airyfairy12

Deleted User wrote: »

With automation advances there is no need for quite a lot of manufacturing to be in China and poorer countries. Aside from the benefits of lax environmental laws the benefits of lower costs isn't what it once was.

In fairness, even clothes that are made outside of Asia have ridiculous prices. Ethical clothing websites are charging 200+ euro for a basic jumper. For example, Toast is an Irish clothing brand.

https://www.toa.st/eu/product/womens+new+collection/f1nak/fracap+woven+sandals.htm?clr=F1NAK_Black_sw

219 for a pair of fugly sandles. That is standard cost for Irish and UK clothing brands.

Also, I read something recently that highlighted the cost of smart phones, if smartphones were to be made in Europe and all pieces for the phone sourced in Europe and not Africa or China using child labor or the workers form these countries were paid properly, a smart phone could cost thousands and no ordinary person would be able to afford one. Buying smart phone or a laptop would be like buying a car in terms of cost.
Its not practical. Western countries are too expensive.

I will try to find the link. It was really interesting.

FVP3

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

They will be held in the same esteem as Germany and Japan were in the middle of the last century when this is all over

Despite the fever swamp of opinion on here, they won't. Comparing a virus that is not manmade to a genocide is utter nonsense.

The Chinese should control their markets, but in fact they did very well to contain the outbreak in Wuhan.

The recent hysteria is driven by the fact that the US has handled this far worse, so its intelligence services and far right press are whipping up the mobs against China.

thecretinhop

FVP3 wrote: »

Despite the fever swamp of opinion on here, they won't. Comparing a virus that is not manmade to a genocide is utter nonsense.

The Chinese should control their markets, but in fact they did very well to contain the outbreak in Wuhan.

The recent hysteria is driven by the fact that the US has handled this far worse, so its intelligence services and far right press are whipping up the mobs against China.

how many cny do u get paid comrade well done

FVP3

Deleted User wrote: »

With automation advances there is no need for quite a lot of manufacturing to be in China and poorer countries. Aside from the benefits of lax environmental laws the benefits of lower costs isn't what it once was.

The real problem is skillz. The chinese, and Asia in general, have massive supply chains and skills that barely exist in the west anymore.

I keep quoting Apple because they could afford to pay more wages without increasing prices. Labour is not the reason

Why can’t that work come home? Obama asked.

Jobs’ reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

The president’s question touched upon a central conviction at Apple. It isn’t just that workers are cheaper abroad. Rather, Apple’s executives believe the vast scale of overseas factories as well as the flexibility, diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced their U.S. counterparts that “Made in the USA” is no longer a viable option for most Apple products.

We have dumbed down education for a few generations but also training on the job. We have snubbed manufacturing for finance and services.

The jobs aren't coming back.

FVP3

thecretinhop wrote: »

how many cny do u get paid comrade well done

I tell the truth against sickening racists for free.

Right this thread needs cleaning up. I'm a trigger finger on the report key.

Kivaro

FVP3 wrote: »

Despite the fever swamp of opinion on here, they won't. Comparing a virus that is not manmade to a genocide is utter nonsense.

The Chinese should control their markets, but in fact they did very well to contain the outbreak in Wuhan.

The recent hysteria is driven by the fact that the US has handled this far worse, so its intelligence services and far right press are whipping up the mobs against China.

Yikes.
New user from March.
America: bad. China: good.

You do know that the Chinese were messing about with the Coronavirus and bats in labs in Wuhan 5 years ago?
This is a known fact, as it was reported at the time back in 2015.

FVP3

bob mcbob wrote: »

I think if Covid has shown one thing it is how small a world we live in. So we can no longer ignore the actions of a paranoid, incompetent, aggressive government who have killed millions of there own people (cultural revolution, Tiananmen Square) in living memory.

Oh America is by no means perfect but given the choice, I will stick with them thank you very much.

America is far worse of course. I mean take a look at the last 20 years. Whats china done compared to the US? Has it killed millions of muslims based on lies? Invaded multiple countries? Destabilized whole swathes of the middle east and North Africa, and Europe as the asylum seekers flow into Europe.

Yes, their neighbours are hostile to China, as most South Americans are to the US. That tends to happen. However as Europeans we should worry about our area of the world, and the US is our enemy.

SEPT 23 1989

FVP3 wrote: »

I tell the truth against sickening racists for free.

Right this thread needs cleaning up. I'm a trigger finger on the report key.

At least it's only pulling the trigger on the report key rather than human beings to "clean things up " when people disagree with you