Relaxation of restrictions

thebaz

faceman wrote: »

The media paints a very grim picture this morning of what the future holds. That coupled with the Times article on Thursday about the story of the signing of the new laws highlight that we are facing tough road ahead, one that will leave us scarred in ways that aren’t being talked about right now.

I attended an online funeral yesterday for someone I should have been present for. His own son couldn’t attend the funeral due to international travel restrictions.

We are merely existing right now and it’s a grim existence at that.

Very sorry for your loss - but fully agree about lack of discussion from anyone questioning current dictate, coming from WHO, on possible alternatives like Sweden and South Korea , I agree with what we are doing for now , for next 2 weeks , but the lack of discussion on the impact of all this on our society , particularly the young , lack of social contact and impending Mother of all recessions, and so little talked about this impact , which could be as bad if not worse than virus itself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/coronavirus-could-push-half-a-billion-people-into-poverty-oxfam-warns

BruteStock

Blueshoe wrote: »

This is good news.
Just to add that Australia is totally reliant on China and Chinese companies have bought up massive amounts of Australian infrastructure.

iF it means that the prices of items go up, so be it..
It's not like it'd take long to set up more drug labs in eastern Europe, more technology factories in India, more clothing factories in Mexico and so on, and if that means a price hike, so what? It'll pale in comparison to the devastating impact on the economy that the coronavirus will have had, and it's almost guaranteed that at some point, more viruses like this will come out of the region.
We could cut Chinna off completely,but production has to be scattered around the world to prevent this mess from happening again. They're not our allies or friends, so we don't need to treat them as such.

Micky 32

faceman wrote: »

We are merely existing right now and it’s a grim existence at that, temporarily.

Fixed that there for you ;-)

stephenjmcd

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0410/1129733-covid19-coronavirus-restrictions/

Keep in mind it's written by doom and gloom George Lee, but the key point here for me is from De Gascun,

"We have a long way to go but officials are keen to reduce restrictions before too long so people can return to "some level of normality" as soon as possible, he said.

When that time comes, he said, restrictions would reduce in "reverse order" whereby movement and retail would be looked at first."


This for me shows they are considering and now planning for the restart. And yes he says we wont be returning to a normal state of affairs soon but I think everyone accepts that based on the gradual reopening of services over a period of say a month to 2 months through May and June and possibly July.

Phoebas

stephenjmcd wrote: »

... May and June and possibly July.

And what happens in August, September, October ....


I can't see any scenario where we don't have significant restrictions until the vaccine is rolled out.

stephenjmcd

Phoebas wrote: »

And what happens in August, September, October ....


I can't see any scenario where we don't have significant restrictions until the vaccine is rolled out.

Simply not going to happen and was even said by Harris yesterday. Social distancing might be in place but not these measures.

To quote what was said,
"In relation to the roadmap, there is going to be a point in this country where we will have to live alongside the virus, for want of a better phrase, where sadly people will still get sick and sadly some people will still die but it is at a rate that is sustainable for our doctors to manage,"

thebaz

Phoebas wrote: »

I can't see any scenario where we don't have significant restrictions until the vaccine is rolled out.

The vaccine is 18 months away - ther is no way crurrent world lockdowns could continue beyond summer, society would breakdown, and ther would be worldwide hunger and other illness , including mental -

facehugger99

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Nolan said yesterday evening that if it wasnt 0 (zero) then no lifting of restrictions.

De Gascun suggesting measures of social distancing to go on for a very long time.

The medical professionals are telling you that this lockdown is not ending. What more do you need to hear to believe thay.

The problem is that we're asking the wrong people the wrong questions. Ask a medical person what we need to do to eliminate the spread of the virus and they'll tell you to lockdown indefinitely.

They aren't being asked what the economy and society will look like as a result of this - that's not the question they have been asked or are qualified to answer.

The question has be be broader than 'how do we stop it?'

The question should be 'what measures will give us the least-worst outcome for the most people?'

We need more than medical professionals to answer that question.

My question is - when do Government actually start to ask this question? - at the moment they are spectacularly failing to lead.

Plumbthedepths

facehugger99 wrote: »

The problem is that we're asking the wrong people the wrong questions. Ask a medical person what we need to do to eliminate the spread of the virus and they'll tell you to lockdown indefinitely.

They aren't being asked what the economy and society will look like as a result of this - that's not the question they have been asked or are qualified to answer.

The question has be be broader than 'how do we stop it?'

The question should be 'what measures will give us the least-worst outcome for the most people?'

We need more than medical professionals to answer that question.

My question is - when do Government actually start to ask this question? - at the moment they are spectacularly failing to lead.

The patient is now cured sadly the procedure killed him.
They are allowing the economy to fall off a cliff which will have far more longer reaching consequences for the health service and the population than the present crisis.

Blueshoe

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The patient is now cured sadly the procedure killed him.
They are allowing the economy to fall off a cliff which will have far more longer reaching consequences for the health service and the population than the present crisis.

And what would you do differently? Given the reigns of power what would be your policy moving forward?

Phoebas

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Simply not going to happen and was even said by Harris yesterday. Social distancing might be in place but not these measures.

thebaz wrote: »

The vaccine is 18 months away - ther is no way crurrent world lockdowns could continue beyond summer, society would breakdown, and ther would be worldwide hunger and other illness , including mental -

I fully agree that the current lockdown cannot continue for long.
But we will need to continue with severe restrictions.

I think these will be much more targeted and will include mass antibody testing with immunity certificates issued and mandatory tracking by mobile phone app, with restrictions eased for some and tightened for others.

I'm not wanting to scaremonger, but by the end of the summer we may be looking back on March and April as a time when we were 'all in it together'.

Padre_Pio

faceman wrote: »

We are merely existing right now and it’s a grim existence at that.

I'm having a great auld time.

Working from home in my jammies, ill get dressed soon and head out for a lunchtime walk. No commute, less stress, no inane office chit chat.

I'm actually talking to friends and family more now, we have a Zoom quiz set up for the weekend.
I could get used to this.

Chatting to friends too and they're loving it. Able to spend more quality time with their kids, weather has been good the past two weeks, bear in mind I live in the country, maybe city living is different.

timmy_mallet

thebaz wrote: »

Very sorry for your loss - but fully agree about lack of discussion from anyone questioning current dictate, coming from WHO, on possible alternatives like Sweden and South Korea , I agree with what we are doing for now , for next 2 weeks , but the lack of discussion on the impact of all this on our society , particularly the young , lack of social contact and impending Mother of all recessions, and so little talked about this impact , which could be as bad if not worse than virus itself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/coronavirus-could-push-half-a-billion-people-into-poverty-oxfam-warns

The absurdity of it all, is that we cannot accept from a moral and ethical standpoint the projections of death, and we're willing to set fire to our future so that we can deal with the guilt.

statto25

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I'm having a great auld time.

Working from home in my jammies, ill get dressed soon and head out for a lunchtime walk. No commute, less stress, no inane office chit chat.

I'm actually talking to friends and family more now, we have a Zoom quiz set up for the weekend.
I could get used to this.

Do you live on your own Padre?

timmy_mallet

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I'm having a great auld time.

Working from home in my jammies, ill get dressed soon and head out for a lunchtime walk. No commute, less stress, no inane office chit chat.

I'm actually talking to friends and family more now, we have a Zoom quiz set up for the weekend.
I could get used to this.

Well, you could do all that w/o the virus.

There won't be an office or a job for you to commute to or work from home for by the end of the year, so you can get used to that then too.

Padre_Pio

statto25 wrote: »

Do you live on your own Padre?

Nope, here with two friends, the woman has moved in for the past few weeks too.
We're having a BBQ tonight.

KiKi III

Do people honestly think the economy will just start booming again if we open everything up?

Plumbthedepths

Blueshoe wrote: »

And what would you do differently? Given the reigns of power what would be your policy moving forward?

Ramp up testing people are still waiting up to 14 days for results which is ridiculous.Open business that can achieve good social distancing for a start. Have an economic expert as part of the advisory expert group to the government. Any suggestions yourself or is just sniping at others you are interested in?

JoeExotic81

Trump is an absolute turnip but he is spot on with his new little catchphrase, "The cure cannot be worse than the problem itself".

If restrictions don't start getting eased in the next month or two, the damage will start to become irreversible in many aspects. Yes people will die due to this, but the idea that everyone stays in lockdown until a vaccine arrives is simply ridiculous and mental.

niallo27

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I'm having a great auld time.

Working from home in my jammies, ill get dressed soon and head out for a lunchtime walk. No commute, less stress, no inane office chit chat.

I'm actually talking to friends and family more now, we have a Zoom quiz set up for the weekend.
I could get used to this.

Chatting to friends too and they're loving it. Able to spend more quality time with their kids, weather has been good the past two weeks, bear in mind I live in the country, maybe city living is different.

Thats fair enough, I'm sure there are thousands like you but there are also thousands that dont have your luxury of working from home and very worried what the future holds in store for them.

Phoebas

facehugger99 wrote: »

My question is - when do Government actually start to ask this question? - at the moment they are spectacularly failing to lead.

I have no doubt that they are asking the question, but at this time in the crisis where they are trying to get a clear message across about what people need to do now, it would be counterproductive to start a national conversation about what we might do later on.

KiKi III

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ramp up testing people are still waiting up to 14 days for results which is ridiculous.Open business that can achieve good social distancing for a start. Have an economic expert as part of the advisory expert group to the government. Any suggestions yourself or is just sniping at others you are interested in?

There are a number of economists guiding the government. I know one of them. They came up with the €350/week social welfare plan and the employee retention plan for businesses.

What businesses do you think could/should open?

Loafing Oaf

statto25 wrote: »

Do you live on your own Padre?

He bilocates across the dinner table for company

lainey_d_123

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is turning into a bit of a mess now.
Peak always seems to be two weeks away.

It’s obvious now that the government and advisory committee made a bad call with the current lockdown.

There’s too many people working and on the move.

This needed the hard lockdown two weeks ago. Medical ,carers and food distribution and supermarkets only.
Everything else should have been stopped two weeks ago.

We’re going to be messing around with a half arsed lockdown for 6 months at the way things are going now.

What they are trying to do by keeping non essential so called essential businesses open is like trying to shove water up a hill in regards suppressing the virus and is only extending the current restrictions

I reckon another 3-4 weeks and people will just have enough of this soft route with no end date in sight.

We can’t carry on like this indefinitely. The way Philip Nolan was talking yesterday was maybe the true ideal scenario but it’s not possible or feasible to stay half locked down for another 6-9 months.
May bank holiday is the most people will put up with I think and it’s going to be a tough job to expect people stay locked up after that.

I do agree with most of this.

I think a super strict lockdown for a very short time would have been far preferable to this situation. Imagine how different things would have been if the UK and Ireland had shut their borders back in early February and ordered everyone to stay at home for a month. There would have been loads of moaning and discontent but we could all up and running again by now, with far fewer deaths. People would have to cancel all their holidays for the rest of the year, which would be absolutely rubbish, but at least there would be mostly normal life - work, socialising, pubs, seeing friends.

Now we're in this weird situation which isn't one thing or the other and which could go on for months more, and having gained nothing from waiting. Those crucial few weeks of head start we had on the likes of Italy were just squandered. I remember people at work in London saying 'oh but we only have 50 cases in the UK' and just shaking my head in disbelief. It just did not seem to get through to people how fast this thing moves. 50 cases is exactly when you SHOULD shut everything down, before it gets any worse. Look at how much better the countries who adopted this approach are doing.

niallo27

KiKi III wrote: »

Do people honestly think the economy will just start booming again if we open everything up?

No of course not but the longer this goes on the harder it will be to kick start it.

timmy_mallet

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ramp up testing people are still waiting up to 14 days for results which is ridiculous.Open business that can achieve good social distancing for a start. Have an economic expert as part of the advisory expert group to the government. Any suggestions yourself or is just sniping at others you are interested in?

Right, which means also that the figures we see today for new cases is pointless to use a concrete measure of progress, yet decisions are being made with it.

Gael23

If they think older people will stay at home for 18 months they have another thing coming

niallo27

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I do agree with most of this.

I think a super strict lockdown for a very short time would have been far preferable to this situation. Imagine how different things would have been if the UK and Ireland had shut their borders back in early February and ordered everyone to stay at home for a month. There would have been loads of moaning and discontent but we could all up and running again by now, with far fewer deaths. People would have to cancel all their holidays for the rest of the year, which would be absolutely rubbish, but at least there would be mostly normal life - work, socialising, pubs, seeing friends.

Now we're in this weird situation which isn't one thing or the other and which could go on for months more, and having gained nothing from waiting. Those crucial few weeks of head start we had on the likes of Italy were just squandered. I remember people at work in London saying 'oh but we only have 50 cases in the UK' and just shaking my head in disbelief. It just did not seem to get through to people how fast this thing moves. 50 cases is exactly when you SHOULD shut everything down, before it gets any worse. Look at how much better the countries who adopted this approach are doing.

What countries in europe are doing so much better than us, you really think a total shutdown in February would mean everything would be back open now, this is worldwide, it only takes a few people to start it all back up again.

Plumbthedepths

KiKi III wrote: »

There are a number of economists guiding the government. I know one of them. They came up with the €350/week social welfare plan and the employee retention plan for businesses.

What businesses do you think could/should open?

Hardware/garden centres to name two, now your turn any suggestions?

Pete_Cavan

Phoebas wrote: »

And what happens in August, September, October ....


I can't see any scenario where we don't have significant restrictions until the vaccine is rolled out.

A vaccine won't be rolled out for 18 months! Waiting for the vaccine is not a realistic solution. Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?