Relaxation of restrictions

polesheep

Cupatae wrote: »

They had a choice to make, protect the people or protect the economy, they chose the people, and rightly so imo we can always rebuild.. look at the UK tried to protect the economy and are paying a high price for it now.

It wasn't the binary choice they want you to believe it was.

lord quackinton

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If restrictions are lifted too soon before a vaccine is developed the annual death toll would be far higher than 10000. You could multiply that figure by a factor of 7 or 8.

It could take years to get a vaccine
I don’t believe 70,000 people would die per year in Ireland from Covid if there were no restrictions

What is the financial position of people Who think this lockdown madness should continue
Are they loaded, work in public sector and think they will be fine, are they on state welfare and think cuts won’t touch them

donaghs

Cupatae wrote: »

Who looks after the sick ? when the hospitals get overrun? the healthy 20/30 yr olds are gonna look after who every in there family that is sick, there is no straight forward solution and i dont think there is any outcome now where the economy does take a massive hit its simply a case of buckle up.

Infairness to the government i think they are making the right calls and doing the best they can, i dont think anyone wants a great depression style economy if it can be avoided.

If it’s done “incrementally”... Starting with the low risk groups who are not in contact with high risk groups...

Ulysses Gaze

donaghs wrote: »

It’s easy for me to be an armchair commentator, but the Govt are taking the easier decisions. The Swedes are sticking their neck out. If the Govt were really serious about stopping covid they could have stopped the early cases coming from northern Italy! But guess what, that was politically difficult.

The Swedes are now rowing back on their policies and are going to enforce stricter lockdown measures.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing that must be factored into the equation is that very sick people cannot work. Even if we just let nature/virus take its course this illness will cause a 14 day absence from work in each individual it causes a mild-moderate illness in. Then the more seriously afflicted you get people will likely be out of work up to a month. Considering it’s so infectious that’s a lot of sick people unable to work, even if we were to dispense with lives and overcrowd hospitals, and bring out the body bags and makeshift morgues. That’s a major toll on the economy in itself.

Most people have been out of work for a month and counting.

Ulysses Gaze

lord quackinton wrote: »

It could take years to get a vaccine
I don’t believe 70,000 people would die per year in Ireland from Covid if there were no restrictions

What is the financial position of people Who think this lockdown madness should continue
Are they loaded, work in public sector and think they will be fine, are they on state welfare and think cuts won’t touch them

Belief and proof are two different things.

We just don't know. That is the problem.

Cupatae

donaghs wrote: »

It’s easy for me to be an armchair commentator, but the Govt are taking the easier decisions. The Swedes are sticking their neck out. If the Govt were really serious about stopping covid they could have stopped the early cases coming from northern Italy! But guess what, that was politically difficult.

It is easy say that when you or anyone belong to you wasnt any of those people in North Italy, im sure if it was your own mother/father/sister/brother, your opinion wouldn't be as ruthless... The sweds... sticking there neck out.. or burying there heads in the snow...time will tell but going by the UK i wouldn't be putting money on it ending well, but i hope to god im wrong.

lord quackinton

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Belief and proof are two different things.

We just don't know. That is the problem.

And that swings both ways

lbj666

Nermal wrote: »

Twaddle, absolute twaddle. Show your work. Show how 80,000 people could die from this here, and show us your references.

Show us your work so??? It was very clear from all the exponential graphs thrown round based on the growth in Italy last month. The number of cases were multiplying by 2 every 3 days, anywhere between a 1 and 5% death rate eventually leads to a frightening figure. How the **** people dont seem to grasp how serious this would have been if left uncontrolled is beyond me.

Do you know why what i just said cant be proven wrong or right? because every bloody country has put in serious restrictions to curb it, we will never know whats it would have been like uncontrolled no country has dared to find out.

If we ease restrictions and the rate of spread goes back to 6 people. Say if theres 500 cases on a particular day, they would have passed it on unknowing to 3,000. That 3,000 would have passed it to 18000. What about 500 cases on the following day, they would have passed it to 3,000. That 3,000 would have passed it to 18000 and so on and so on and so. Keep that cycle going over a month and a half and you have 800,000 cases , 1% death rate = 80,000.

But of course if things starting escalating to that level again, we'd be back in our houses. So we wouldnt be able to prove that projection, nor would anyone want to dare try.

thebaz

donaghs wrote: »

It’s easy for me to be an armchair commentator, but the Govt are taking the easier decisions. The Swedes are sticking their neck out. If the Govt were really serious about stopping covid they could have stopped the early cases coming from northern Italy! But guess what, that was politically difficult.

One thing I don't like about this government they wont stand up to or at least question, the big international bodies such as the EU or WHO -

I have no doubt the reason the flights from North Italy were not stopped , was from EU pressure , no problem putting the country into 6 weeks of lockdown with legislation, but problem stopping flights from North Italy for a rugby game that was actually cancelled. A bit of bravery and creativity would have revealed the right decision, same as quaranteeing the Cheltemham crowd - but instead weak managment , handing out leaflets at airport and no enforced quaranteeing.

Blueshoe

niallo27 wrote: »

You said earlier on you think 4 more weeks and some restrictions lifted. Now you are saying you dont want any restrictions lifted.

I said 2 more weeks then reassess. Always reassessing the situation.

Find where I said 4 weeks. Back up your statement

Plumbthedepths

Another risk due to the lockdown.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261194/Coronavirus-europe-news-food-shortage-farmer-fruit-vegetable-harvest-food-shortages-eu

donaghs

Cupatae wrote: »

It is easy say that when you or anyone belong to you wasnt any of those people in North Italy, im sure if it was your own mother/father/sister/brother, your opinion wouldn't be as ruthless... The sweds... sticking there neck out.. or burying there heads in the snow...time will tell but going by the UK i wouldn't be putting money on it ending well, but i hope to god im wrong.

Nope, you could also quarantine new arrivals. Again, at the early stage politically difficult.

Cupatae

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will be scarificing people no matter what. The deaths due to the economic devastation will be greater but never acknowledged.

Its easy say that, but if it was yours, your mother/father or grandparents and someone came up and said we have to let them die for the economic greater good would you still be as stalwart on that opinion?

Its easy say it when your not the ones doing the dying, saying something and grim reality of it are two different things.

Ulysses Gaze

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Another risk due to the lockdown.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261194/Coronavirus-europe-news-food-shortage-farmer-fruit-vegetable-harvest-food-shortages-eu

Surely these are the sectors we can start moving the unemployed to work in?

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

Its easy say that, but if it was yours, your mother/father or grandparents and someone came up and said we have to let them die for the economic greater good would you still be as stalwart on that opinion?

Its easy say it when your not the ones doing the dying, saying something and grim reality of it are two different things.

The elderly mother / father / grandparents are going to have to stay cocooned for as long as it takes. We have to get things moving while protecting them

Tea drinker

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If restrictions are lifted too soon before a vaccine is developed the annual death toll would be far higher than 10000. You could multiply that figure by a factor of 7 or 8.

You might never get a vaccine, maybe the treatment will get better, maybe more ICU beds and respirators will be available, but there's no guaruntee.
We are *fairly sure* the herd will develop immunity thus limiting to local brushfires rather than burning through the country like a wildfire.
We need that latter scenario ASAP as many have lost jobs and the economy is in freefall. 900,000 drawing Covid benefits. A controlled opening of the of premises and relaxation will work, just a matter of when.

I think when all this is done we need to seriously look at wasteful projects like the childrens hospital and never repeat these horrendous mistakes - billions can't be just burnt without consequence.

Penfailed

donaghs wrote: »

It’s easy for me to be an armchair commentator, but the Govt are taking the easier decisions. The Swedes are sticking their neck out. If the Govt were really serious about stopping covid they could have stopped the early cases coming from northern Italy! But guess what, that was politically difficult.

"The Swedes are sticking their neck out." Yeah, by doing nothing. You think the Swedish are great for making the decision to do nothing but write off our government for not doing enough?! Yes, you're right, it's easy for you being an armchair commentator.

Plumbthedepths

Cupatae wrote: »

Its easy say that, but if it was yours, your mother/father or grandparents and someone came up and said we have to let them die for the economic greater good would you still be as stalwart on that opinion?

Its easy say it when your not the ones doing the dying, saying something and grim reality of it are two different things.

It's not easy say it, but it's very easy reply emotionally if you wish but it doesn't change the fact we will know how many died from Covid but never the number as a result of the economic devastation .
Both my grandparents were on hospital waiting lists before they died.
We all will die no one is getting out of here alive.

Tell me how

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Another risk due to the lockdown.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261194/Coronavirus-europe-news-food-shortage-farmer-fruit-vegetable-harvest-food-shortages-eu

The Express? Predicting disaster in Europe?
Well, they've proven to be completely unbiased haven't they.

I wonder have the wrote any articles on how the fruit and veg crop in the UK is at risk of being scrapped without eastern European seasonal labour which traditionally has been used to harvest it.

Labour Shortage

The farming industry is urgently seeking 80,000 labourers needed to pick and process fruit and vegetables. The workforce to harvest crops – largely from eastern Europe – is usually recruited at this time of year, but the block on international travel caused by the outbreak has made that impossible.

Ulysses Gaze

lord quackinton wrote: »

And that swings both ways

It's the double-bind, lq.

Either way could **** the country up for decades.

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

The elderly mother / father / grandparents are going to have to stay cocooned for as long as it takes. We have to get things moving while protecting them

Huge practical difficulties with doing this effectively...

muletide

lbj666 wrote: »

Show us your work so??? It was very clear from all the exponential graphs thrown round based on the growth in Italy last month. The number of cases were multiplying by 2 every 3 days, anywhere between a 1 and 5% death rate eventually leads to a frightening figure. How the **** people dont seem to grasp how serious this would have been if left uncontrolled is beyond me.

Do you know why what i just said cant be proven wrong or right? because every bloody country has put in serious restrictions to curb it, we will never know whats it would have been like uncontrolled no country has dared to find out.

If we ease restrictions and the rate of spread goes back to 6 people. Say if theres 500 cases on a particular day, they would have passed it on unknowing to 3,000. That 3,000 would have passed it to 18000. What about 500 cases on the following day, they would have passed it to 3,000. That 3,000 would have passed it to 18000 and so on and so on and so. Keep that cycle going over a month and a half and you have 800,000 cases , 1% death rate = 80,000.

But of course if things starting escalating to that level again, we'd be back in our houses. So we wouldnt be able to prove that projection, nor would anyone want to dare try.

Jesus Christ, 1% of 800k is not 80k.

You are not helping yourself here

Plumbthedepths

For my stalker in America. Seems an English newspaper is not good enough, must be the old enemy stuff that causes the bias

https://www.thelocal.de/20200325/spargelzeit-german-farmers-raise-alarm-as-coronavirus-border-closures-impact-seasonal-workers

Cupatae

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not easy say it, but it's very easy reply emotionally if you wish but it doesn't change the fact we will know how many died from Covid but never the number as a result of the economic devastation .
Both my grandparents were on hospital waiting lists before they died.
We all will die no one is getting out of here alive.

I dunno that wouldnt sit right with me anyway, sacrificing people for the economy, and im glad we arent doing that id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

As for the last line... if thats the attitude why bother at all.

Logan Roy

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno that wouldnt sit right with me anyway, sacrificing people for the economy, and im glad we arent doing that id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

As for the last line... if thats the attitude why bother at all.

Do you not realise this happens every single day? Prices are put on all of our lives. It's why the Cork to Limerick motorway hasn't been built despite the number of people killed on the existing road each year. It's why we don't plough all our taxes into the health service.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Huge practical difficulties with doing this effectively...

I know. But this virus isn’t going anywhere and a vaccine could be 18 month away. Can’t stay locked down until then so all we can do is try to protect the vulnerable as best we can

Plumbthedepths

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno that wouldnt sit right with me anyway, sacrificing people for the economy, and im glad we arent doing that id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

As for the last line... if thats the attitude why bother at all.

It's not an attitude its a fact. None of us are immortal.

Cupatae

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not an attitude its a fact. None of us are immortal.

Good lad and in other news the sky is blue! what was the purpose of it in your reply then? or do you always finish posts with random facts?

donaghs

Penfailed wrote: »

"The Swedes are sticking their neck out." Yeah, by doing nothing. You think the Swedish are great for making the decision to do nothing but write off our government for not doing enough?! Yes, you're right, it's easy for you being an armchair commentator.

Sorry to question “the man in the arena”! But to say Sweden’s govt are “doing nothing” in comparison with a ireland is a lie, or ignorance. E.g. having field hospitals ready in anticipation of numbers, retraining grounded aircrew As medical support, keeping kindergartens open so medical staff with children can still work.
The controversial aspect are the allowing people and businesses personal freedom to prActice social distancing. They are expecting that they can cope with a higher infection curve and emerge quicker and with less disruption than “lockdown” countries. Maybe they will be proved wrong.