Relaxation of restrictions

donaghs

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno that wouldnt sit right with me anyway, sacrificing people for the economy, and im glad we arent doing that id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

As for the last line... if thats the attitude why bother at all.

A depression like the last one will allow you have both.

Pretzill

Deleted User wrote: »

The elderly mother / father / grandparents are going to have to stay cocooned for as long as it takes. We have to get things moving while protecting them

This I don't get, and I don't see why others don't either - those cocooned will be perfectly fine as long as there arent people spreading infections and more hospitalizations until a point where all those who are of ill-health, at risk of other diseases won't able to be seen in a hospital setting because Covid has taken over - we are trying to prevent the breakdown of our health system, as well as protect and save lives.

Imagine this thing runs through society unabated and young people as well as old get the immune response complications and all of a sudden every ICU is over -run - more staff are at risk, leaving a poorly serviced hospital in all other departments, this goes on decimating what is already a poor health service and pretty soon breaking an arm will be a disaster. People on here are purporting that the lockdown is causing those with mental health issues serious problems - but there won't be any help for people who need it if this diseases is allowed a greater foothold.

I'm getting tired of the level of ignorance shown right across social media -muppetss saying someone is a "stay at home nazi" or "enjoying the lockdown" Nobody is finding this pandemic easy - the economic consequences will be tough but it will be a hell of a lot tougher for many more years to come if our health service crumbles.

Logan Roy

donaghs wrote: »

Sorry to question “the man in the arena”! But to say Sweden’s govt are “doing nothing” in comparison with a ireland is a lie, or ignorance. E.g. having field hospitals ready in anticipation of numbers, retraining grounded aircrew As medical support, keeping kindergartens open so medical staff with children can still work.
The controversial aspect are the allowing people and businesses personal freedom to prActice social distancing. They are expecting that they can cope with a higher infection curve and emerge quicker and with less disruption than “lockdown” countries. Maybe they will be proved wrong.

Michael D described them as a "morally inclined political economy". Some posters on on here are clueless and want to believe that Sweden are jeopardising their citizens.

Ace2007

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Another risk due to the lockdown.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261194/Coronavirus-europe-news-food-shortage-farmer-fruit-vegetable-harvest-food-shortages-eu

Well now there are millions of people out of jobs all across Europe, as you and others like to point out - why can't these people pick these crops? - given they aren't doing anything else?

Cupatae

Pretzill wrote: »

This I don't get, and I don't see why others don't either - those cocooned will be perfectly fine as long as there arent people spreading infections and more hospitalizations until a point where all those who are of ill-health, at risk of other diseases won't able to be seen in a hospital setting because Covid has taken over - we are trying to prevent the breakdown of our health system, as well as protect and save lives.

Imagine this thing runs through society unabated and young people as well as old get the immune response complications and all of a sudden every ICU is over -run - more staff are at risk, leaving a poorly serviced hospital in all other departments, this goes on decimating what is already a poor health service and pretty soon breaking an arm will be a disaster. People on here are purporting that the lockdown is causing those with mental health issues serious problems - but there won't be any help for people who need it if this diseases is allowed a greater foothold.

I'm getting tired of the level of ignorance shown right across social media -muppetss saying someone is a "stay at home nazi" or "enjoying the lockdown" Nobody is finding this pandemic easy - the economic consequences will be tough but it will be a hell of a lot tougher for many more years to come if our health service crumbles.

I honestly think alot of people still believe for what ever reason...they cant get it and if they do it ll be a minor cold.. alot of the logic behind protect the economy and that seems to be from the view point of covid only happens to other people and not them and theirs,

They also fail to realize that alot of the people dying arent just old...healthcare workers are taking a bad hit aswell from repeated exposure, its a very complex issue with no simple solution, and one certainly wont be found on boards.

They just come across as very detached, and cant fathom how much worse a position we could be in right now.

Jurgen Klopp

donaghs wrote: »

A depression like the last one will allow you have both.

I honestly don't understand this

I want to keep lockdown for as long as we can afford myself but the reality is no nation can afford 18 months minimum

I'm so afraid this will end up being our tuberculosis time. The economy will be so bad our hospitals will have funding down to nothing, meds and equipment rationed

Just mass amounts of covid centres with beds and you are put in there if bad enough with very little meds to help you

Why can't people understand there has to be a balance it's the only way to avoid carnage from both sides

Jurgen Klopp

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well now there are millions of people out of jobs all across Europe, as you and others like to point out - why can't these people pick these crops? - given they aren't doing anything else?

Ah I wondered how long it would be until lads were sneering down their noses at the poor misfortunes that lost their jobs

Shove em out picking fruit for less than than what they'd get on the dole, usually being packed into crammed barrack like accomodation and spread it more

Sure us ones with money and lucky to have a WFH role need our cushy arses protected while pontificating at everyone else

I can tell you, there's people here from both sides make me fcukin sick

People like you will be the ones that will harden normal folk into thinking let us get back to work and fcuk the elderly and vulrenable

lord quackinton

Cupatae wrote: »

I honestly think alot of people still believe for what ever reason...they cant get it and if they do it ll be a minor cold.. alot of the logic behind protect the economy and that seems to be from the view point of covid only happens to other people and not them and theirs,

They also fail to realize that alot of the people dying arent just old...healthcare workers are taking a bad hit aswell from repeated exposure, its a very complex issue with no simple solution, and one certainly wont be found on boards.

They just come across as very detached, and cant fathom how much worse a position we could be in right now.

Please put up the stats for ages of people who have died of this virus in Ireland
I think those figures will back up what you are saying

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

I honestly think alot of people still believe for what ever reason...they cant get it and if they do it ll be a minor cold.. alot of the logic behind protect the economy and that seems to be from the view point of covid only happens to other people and not them and theirs,

They also fail to realize that alot of the people dying arent just old...healthcare workers are taking a bad hit aswell from repeated exposure, its a very complex issue with no simple solution, and one certainly wont be found on boards.

They just come across as very detached, and cant fathom how much worse a position we could be in right now.

No one. Not a single person on this thread is suggesting a free for all from May or June. As we release some restrictions there will be social distancing applied, work from home will be enforced where possible (I’m not expecting to go back to the office before September at the earliest), pubs probably won’t open. But we need to get some economic activity going.

And the fact is that young people are less susceptible. The data from every country, including Ireland, shows that. And that old and vulnerable people are the most at risk. So the only way to get things in the economy moving while minimising the risk to the Heath service is to focus on the protection of vulnerable people while younger people get businesses back open

We can’t stay locked down until we get a vaccine. That’s just a fact. So we have to get moving with as low a risk as we can

Cupatae

Deleted User wrote: »

No one. Not a single person on this thread is suggesting a free for all from May or June. As we release some restrictions there will be social distancing applied, work from home will be enforced where possible (I’m not expecting to go back to the office before September at the earliest), pubs probably won’t open. But we need to get some economic activity going.

And the fact is that young people are less susceptible. The data from every country, including Ireland, shows that. And that old and vulnerable people are the most at risk. So the only way to get things in the economy moving while minimising the risk to the Heath service is to focus on the protection of vulnerable people while younger people get businesses back open

We can’t stay locked down until we get a vaccine. That’s just a fact. So we have to get moving with as low a risk as we can

And i agree with that, that we do need to get moving as soon as we can not once have i said stay locked down till a vaccine is availible as a matter of fact i stated that having one ready to go within a year is happy talk.

But not everyone is of the same opinion as you and they have very different versions, have you been reading the last few pages of the thread?

Ace2007

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Ah I wondered how long it would be until lads were sneering down their noses at the poor misfortunes that lost their jobs

Shove em out picking fruit for less than than what they'd get on the dole, usually being packed into crammed barrack like accomodation and spread it more

Sure us ones with money and lucky to have a WFH role need our cushy arses protected while pontificating at everyone else

I can tell you, there's people here from both sides make me fcukin sick

People like you will be the ones that will harden normal folk into thinking let us get back to work and fcuk the elderly and vulrenable

How I am sneering at anyone? I replied to a poster who said we might run out of food, because foreign nationals who do the job for pennies are no longer available. Why can't people who are currently out of a job do this work? You come across as you prefer people to go hungry than people just get on with the situation.

If you have read any of my posts you know that protecting the elderly and the vulnerable are top of my list.

Cupatae

lord quackinton wrote: »

Please put up the stats for ages of people who have died of this virus in Ireland
I think those figures will back up what you are saying

What stat ? that young people have died from it aswell as elderly? or health care workers have died from it?

Ace2007

Deleted User wrote: »

And the fact is that young people are less susceptible. The data from every country, including Ireland, shows that. And that old and vulnerable people are the most at risk. So the only way to get things in the economy moving while minimising the risk to the Heath service is to focus on the protection of vulnerable people while younger people get businesses back open

We can’t stay locked down until we get a vaccine. That’s just a fact. So we have to get moving with as low a risk as we can

Do we get an age breakdown of the numbers who are in hospital/ICU? We know it's not those from nursing homes as they aren't sent to hospital if they get the virus, therefore I'm interested to see this data that you speak about.

citysights

Tell me how wrote: »

The Express? Predicting disaster in Europe?
Well, they've proven to be completely unbiased haven't they.

I wonder have the wrote any articles on how the fruit and veg crop in the UK is at risk of being scrapped without eastern European seasonal labour which traditionally has been used to harvest it.

Labour Shortage

So what is your actual point?
It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that there could be food shortages if people cannot travel over borders to pick/ collect the harvest. Hardly rocket science, just plain common sense.

lord quackinton

Cupatae wrote: »

What stat ? that young people have died from it aswell as elderly? or health care workers have died from it?

I actually find it hard to get stats

Of those who have died in Ireland
Breakdown by county, age, profession etc
Would be good to know that stuff

facehugger99

Cupatae wrote: »

id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

What a horrifically dumb statement.

Economic devastation will affect the poor and elderly.

Economic devastation will kill the poor and elderly.

Do you have any idea how heath services and state pensions are funded and paid for?

Beasty

lord quackinton wrote: »

I actually find it hard to get stats

Of those who have died in Ireland
Breakdown by county, age, profession etc
Would be good to know that stuff

All you can get is in the daily HSE briefings

They simply do not reveal any other info. Maybe on privacy grounds, but it gets no more granular than that

Ace2007

citysights wrote: »

So what is your actual point?
It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that there could be food shortages if people cannot travel over borders to pick/ collect the harvest. Hardly rocket science, just plain common sense.

And do you not think that it's plain common sense, that those who aren't doing anything now, could pick/collect these harvests to ensure there are no food shortages

If we need to pick turnips/spuds in Ireland and there is a shortage, I'd happily go and help if it meant we didn't end up with shortages,

So many people on here think that work is beneath them.

Spanish Eyes

I know it's tough, but it's the same all over Europe with the Swedish exception.

Best to wait and see how those countries who are going to lift some restrictions like Austria and Norway get on and learn valuable lessons if it all goes south, or follow them if it's all good.

We cannot go on a solo run until we see what pans out. That would be pretty stupid since we have countries who have flattened the curve ahead of us.

Jurgen Klopp

Ace2007 wrote: »

How I am sneering at anyone? I replied to a poster who said we might run out of food, because foreign nationals who do the job for pennies are no longer available. Why can't people who are currently out of a job do this work? You come across as you prefer people to go hungry than people just get on with the situation.

If you have read any of my posts you know that protecting the elderly and the vulnerable are top of my list.

Yeah you see you're just showing how incredibly ignorant you are here.

Harvesting that you suggest sending the unemployed "who have nothing better to do" is done by having large amounts often dozens cramped together in confined quarters who are lucky make a few euro an hour

So not only are you forcing people into work which would make them worse off financially than the dole you are spreading it like wildfire amongst the workers

You then have most of these who are fit and healthy thinking why the fcuk should we do this for feck all pay and still risk the virus when we could be back at normal work. Then more and more people who were ok toughen out lockdown and restrictions start to think "fcuk this let us back to our normal jobs"

I am the exact same, I want to protect the elderly and vulrenable (which I'm part of) but your ignorance is just as bad as anyone that wants a survival of the fittest

thebaz

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno that wouldnt sit right with me anyway, sacrificing people for the economy, and im glad we arent doing that id take any amount of economic devastation before willfully giving up on our at risk and elderly.

and yet ther are a few here saying the at risk and elderly should be released early from ther Cocoon -

What would the effect of that be ?

Plumbthedepths

Ace2007 wrote: »

How I am sneering at anyone? I replied to a poster who said we might run out of food, because foreign nationals who do the job for pennies are no longer available. Why can't people who are currently out of a job do this work? You come across as you prefer people to go hungry than people just get on with the situation.

If you have read any of my posts you know that protecting the elderly and the vulnerable are top of my list.

I didn't say we would run out of food I posted an article that shows another consequence of governmental lockdown ,food shortages You may have an issue with my comments but have the decency not to make up stuff and then attribute it to me.

Thelonious Monk

I was thinking about food shortages actually. They wont be able to fly Eastern European workers into the UK to pick crops, I know they do that there. I wonder if they'd be able to recruit people out of work that wouldn't normally do that kind of work, people like myself. I know they grow something like half the crops in Ireland in North County Dublin not far from me, maybe a few weeks of back breaking farm work would toughen me up a bit.

donaghs

thebaz wrote: »

and yet ther are a few here saying the at risk and elderly should be released early from ther Cocoon -

What would the effect of that be ?

What? I haven’t read one comment saying that. Sounds disingenuous - most comments looking for new solutions seem to include the caveat of cocooning old and vulnerable, to avoid the misdirection comments like above.

Ace2007

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Yeah you see you're just showing how incredibly ignorant you are here.

Harvesting that you suggest sending the unemployed "who have nothing better to do" is done by having large amounts often dozens cramped together in confined quarters who are lucky make a few euro an hour

So not only are you forcing people into work which would make them worse off financially than the dole you are spreading it like wildfire amongst the workers

You then have most of these who are fit and healthy thinking why the fcuk should we do this for feck all pay and still risk the virus when we could be back at normal work. Then more and more people who were ok toughen out lockdown and restrictions start to think "fcuk this let us back to our normal jobs"

I am the exact same, I want to protect the elderly and vulrenable (which I'm part of) but your ignorance is just as bad as anyone that wants a survival of the fittest

So it's ok for foreign nationals to pick these crops and possible risk their lives for pennies, but not ok for someone who may be currently unemployed? Said person doesn't have to lose their dole money if they volunteer to help out.

The reason why these people who be doing it, is because if they don't then people go hungry and possible die of starvation, and to prevent more pressure on our healthcare.

I really don't see how you get anything negative form my post.

Ace2007

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I didn't say we would run out of food I posted an article that shows another consequence of governmental lockdown ,food shortages You may have an issue with my comments but have the decency not to make up stuff and then attribute it to me.

Well you made up stuff about the Australian government earlier on but that was ok?

Food shortages - leads to some people running out of food

thebaz

donaghs wrote: »

What? I haven’t read one comment saying that. Sounds disingenuous - most comments looking for new solutions seem to include the caveat of cocooning old and vulnerable, to avoid the misdirection comments like above.

I've read a few, of people saying the elderly can't take much more cocooning - Don't understand attitude myself - since its in ther interest.

Plumbthedepths

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well you made up stuff about the Australian government earlier on but that was ok?

Food shortages - leads to some people running out of food

Actually I attributed something to the Australian government which was wrong but Australian health experts have suggested a immunity passport but the Australian government are not 'actively' pursuing it at the moment. I posted the link which clarified the situation.
No , food shortages mean less food to go around. If someone goes hungry it means someone else is unwilling to share.
So once again please don't post lies and claim they are from me. Thanks.

Ace2007

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually I attributed something to the Australian government which was wrong but Australian health experts have suggested a immunity passport but the Australian government are not 'actively' pursuing it at the moment. I posted the link which clarified the situation.
No , food shortages mean less food to go around. If someone goes hungry it means someone else is unwilling to share.
So once again please don't post lies and claim they are from me. Thanks.

Well at least you admit you were wrong.

Idbatterim

We had a booming economy for the last few years and fg still had us with a shambles of a health service!

I put aside a bit of a rainy day fund the over the last few years, I'm prudent anyway . But I wouldn't trust any party here with the economy . Doesn't surprise me **** has hit the fan, obviously nobody could have foreseen the way its come about. But we have ff or fg etc in charge, God help us , like the others said this is going to be turned from a very bad to a horrendous scenario by them