Relaxation of restrictions

lord quackinton

Beasty wrote: »

All you can get is in the daily HSE briefings

They simply do not reveal any other info. Maybe on privacy grounds, but it gets no more granular than that

What little info they have on deaths is interesting
Does put a lot of the scaremongering around young uns being affected to bed

Median and mean age are what they are

citysights

Ace2007 wrote: »

And do you not think that it's plain common sense, that those who aren't doing anything now, could pick/collect these harvests to ensure there are no food shortages

If we need to pick turnips/spuds in Ireland and there is a shortage, I'd happily go and help if it meant we didn't end up with shortages,

So many people on here think that work is beneath them.

Please re read what I wrote carefully. No where did I mention work being above or beneath people.

But I’d actually agree that if things became that difficult here( which hopefully they won’t) yes people would help each other. Irish people are good and kind intrinsically, we are a small island and we would definitely help each other.

Plumbthedepths

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well at least you admit you were wrong.

Of course I was wrong and the link I posted showed this. However what I said wasn't done with malice on my part, can you say the same about the lie you attributed to me?
Would you like to admit you were wrong?

Cupatae

facehugger99 wrote: »

What a horrifically dumb statement.

Economic devastation will affect the poor and elderly.

Economic devastation will kill the poor and elderly.

Do you have any idea how heath services and state pensions are funded and paid for?

My main point is i disagree with people sacrificing people for the greater economic good, spin that as what ever ya like.

Ace2007

citysights wrote: »

Please re read what I wrote carefully. No where did I mention work being above or beneath people.

But I’d actually agree that if things became that difficult here( which hopefully they won’t) yes people would help each other. Irish people are good and kind intrinsically, we are a small island and we would definitely help each other.

Sorry I didn't mean you when I said some posters.

That's what so good about Ireland - Society comes together and help each other out

Ace2007

lord quackinton wrote: »

What little info they have on deaths is interesting
Does put a lot of the scaremongering around young uns being affected to bed

Median and mean age are what they are

Well the youngest person to die in Ireland was 32 - but you won't see the Media talking about that

citysights

Ace2007 wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean you when I said some posters.

That's what so good about Ireland - Society comes together and help each other out

Yes I agree, when all is said and done we are a kind people and help each other.

citysights

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Yeah you see you're just showing how incredibly ignorant you are here.

Harvesting that you suggest sending the unemployed "who have nothing better to do" is done by having large amounts often dozens cramped together in confined quarters who are lucky make a few euro an hour

So not only are you forcing people into work which would make them worse off financially than the dole you are spreading it like wildfire amongst the workers

You then have most of these who are fit and healthy thinking why the fcuk should we do this for feck all pay and still risk the virus when we could be back at normal work. Then more and more people who were ok toughen out lockdown and restrictions start to think "fcuk this let us back to our normal jobs"

I am the exact same, I want to protect the elderly and vulrenable (which I'm part of) but your ignorance is just as bad as anyone that wants a survival of the fittest

There are more holes in your arguments than a sieve!

Greentopia

Ace2007 wrote: »

And do you not think that it's plain common sense, that those who aren't doing anything now, could pick/collect these harvests to ensure there are no food shortages

If we need to pick turnips/spuds in Ireland and there is a shortage, I'd happily go and help if it meant we didn't end up with shortages,

So many people on here think that work is beneath them.

There's a huge difference between giving a hand to help out in an emergency and the work rate of young guys from Bulgaria and Romania who are brought in to pick harvests in the UK, Netherlands, Germany and so on. They are professional farm workers who have high productivity rates and are used to starting work at 5am and working relentless back breaking toil for often 9 or 10 hours a day. Most of us do not have that kind of experience and would not put up with the kind of working conditions they do unless we're brought up on a veg farm.

The Torys tried to coerce unemployed English to do that kind of work a while back and got very little takers and the ones that did do it some quit after one day because they were too soft/lazy/unwilling or unable and couldn't hack it.

I worked on a few organic farms as a WOOFer and for horticultural work experience and even that was tough, and I didn't have to stretch myself to meet any production targets as the owners were all laid back hippy types :pac:

I think it's great people saying ye'd muck in here and help out in a real crisis, and i definitely would too-meitheal spirit and all that, but it's not as simple as telling thousands of unemployed Irish people to get to work picking spuds and pay them pennies.
It takes a certain work ethic, physical stamina, training and experience to do the job properly.
And of course you'd have to pay them properly or else they'd just decide after a day it wasn't worth the extra few euro over the dole money.

citysights

Greentopia wrote: »

There's a huge difference between giving a hand to help out in an emergency and the work rate of young guys from Bulgaria and Romania who are brought in to pick harvests in the UK, Netherlands, Germany and so on. They are professional farm workers who have high productivity rates and are used to starting work at 5am and working relentless back breaking toil for often 9 or 10 hours a day. Most of us do not have that kind of experience and would not put up with the kind of working conditions they do unless we're brought up on a veg farm.

The Torys tried to coerce unemployed English to do that kind of work a while back and got very little takers and the ones that did do it some quit after one day because they were too soft/lazy/unwilling or unable and couldn't hack it.

I worked on a few organic farms as a WOOFer and for horticultural work experience and even that was tough, and I didn't have to stretch myself to meet any production targets as the owners were all laid back hippy types :pac:

I think it's great people saying ye'd muck in here and help out in a real crisis, and i definitely would too-meitheal spirit and all that, but it's not as simple as telling thousands of unemployed Irish people to get to work picking spuds and pay them pennies.
It takes a certain work ethic, physical stamina, training and experience to do the job properly.
And of course you'd have to pay them properly or else they'd just decide after a day it wasn't worth the extra few euro over the dole money.

The poster says he or she would happily go and help because of the emergency we now find ourselves in and you turn it into a long drawn out rant and start making comparisons to the dole... Perplexing

JRant

I didn’t see anything today to justify keeping the economy locked down for another 3 weeks. Their figures on testing were wrong today. The projected numbers given at the first round of restrictions were so far off as to be laughable. RTE had figures up on their website earlier that more than 150 deaths had taken place but seems to be gone now. The median age is 81 for all deaths. Our main source of infection seem to be nursing homes and health care environments.

Nearly 1 million people out of work, many of whom would be supporting elderly relatives.

This flattening of the curve is seems to be a great catch all for any argument against lifting restrictions but this has not been shown to us. They talk about the “model” like it was some gospel yet don’t actually let anyone know how the numbers are calculated.

Realistically if the restrictions were lifted tomorrow my parents would continue to self isolate. We would continue to do their shopping etc for them. However, when you get to a certain age a few months is a long time and maybe just maybe older people should have their opinions listened to. Do you want to live in isolation for 2 years and maybe pass away not seeing your family in that time or take your chances.

Tenzor07

JRant wrote: »

I didn’t see anything today to justify keeping the economy locked down for another 3 weeks. Their figures on testing were wrong today. The projected numbers given at the first round of restrictions were so far off as to be laughable. RTE had figures up on their website earlier that more than 150 deaths had taken place but seems to be gone now. The median age is 81 for all deaths. Our main source of infection seem to be nursing homes and health care environments.
Nearly 1 million people out of work, many of whom would be supporting elderly relatives. .

What will be more interesting is from the 5th of May how many restrictions will be removed.
From what I read it will be partial, maybe going back to end of March before the current restrictions, and a removal of additional Garda powers.
If this isn't going to be the case I would expect the Army to be on the streets to keep the rule of law.

Plumbthedepths

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What will be more interesting is from the 5th of May how many restrictions will be removed.
From what I read it will be partial, maybe going back to end of March before the current restrictions, and a removal of additional Garda powers.
If this isn't going to be the case I would expect the Army to be on the streets to keep the rule of law.

I don't think any Irish government even a temporary one would risk deploying armed soldiers against their own citizens.
The army is not trained for a policing role.

JRant

I presume the poster means people will just start ignoring restrictions en mass at that stage.

Schools should open again at the start of May, along with most other businesses. Increased Personal hygiene and masks should also become widespread at that stage.

Greentopia

Ace2007 wrote: »

So it's ok for foreign nationals to pick these crops and possible risk their lives for pennies, but not ok for someone who may be currently unemployed? Said person doesn't have to lose their dole money if they volunteer to help out.

citysights wrote: »

The poster says he or she would happily go and help because of the emergency we now find ourselves in and you turn it into a long drawn out rant and start making comparisons to the dole... Perplexing

I wasn't ranting. I was explaining with the benefit of my own experience what it's actually like to do that kind of work. The dole reference is on relation to the above comment and I'm in agreement that most would rather keep their dole than work for peanuts doing such back breaking work if it was forced on them. Doing it by choice is a different matter.

And I agreed and said it's laudable to want to help out, as would I if asked.

Padre_Pio

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't think any Irish government even a temporary one would risk deploying armed soldiers against their own citizens.
The army is not trained for a policing role.

Not a chance will the army be out. Has the army ever been deployed? I remember the recession there were rumours but it didn't happen.

Tenzor07

JRant wrote: »

I presume the poster means people will just start ignoring restrictions en mass at that stage.
Schools should open again at the start of May, along with most other businesses. Increased Personal hygiene and masks should also become widespread at that stage.

Exactly, there's not enough Gardai or jail cells to host all who after 5+weeks of lockdown may want to commence 2 or 5km beyond the limits for instance, never mind anything else...

BanditLuke

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Not a chance will the army be out. Has the army ever been deployed? I remember the recession there were rumours but it didn't happen.

Given the way people here are reacting after a couple of weeks of very lax lockdown i wouldn't be surprised to see the army out on the streets to enforce measures within a week or two.

Tenzor07

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Not a chance will the army be out. Has the army ever been deployed? I remember the recession there were rumours but it didn't happen.

They've been deployed to support civilian services back in the 1980's.
And were deployed along the border in the 1970's also.

Plumbthedepths

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Not a chance will the army be out. Has the army ever been deployed? I remember the recession there were rumours but it didn't happen.

Back up to the Garda during the troubles and cash escort which they no longer do. They have a role called aid to the civil power. Only deployed during strikes, flooding, adverse weather events .

Plumbthedepths

BanditLuke wrote: »

Given the way people here are reacting after a couple of weeks of very lax lockdown i wouldn't be surprised to see the army out on the streets to enforce measures within a week or two.

You'll be disappointed if you are hoping for that to come to pass.

JRant

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Not a chance will the army be out. Has the army ever been deployed? I remember the recession there were rumours but it didn't happen.

We've never had such draconian restrictions before in this country either. I doubt the army would be used in all honesty. If it got to that stage the government have already lost the battle.

Tenzor07

JRant wrote: »

We've never had such draconian restrictions before in this country either. I doubt the army would be used in all honesty. If it got to that stage the government have already lost the battle.

If I would have told you back in January that we'd all be confined to our homes unless for a very good reason, not allowed to go to work or for a pint you'd of said I was mad...

irishproduce

Tandey wrote: »

Primary school teachers most certainly are off.

TBF primary teachers are at the lower end of the teaching heirarchy.
Serious teachers of second level and private school types are working.

Ace2007

Greentopia wrote: »

I wasn't ranting. I was explaining with the benefit of my own experience what it's actually like to do that kind of work. The dole reference is on relation to the above comment and I'm in agreement that most would rather keep their dole than work for peanuts doing such back breaking work if it was forced on them. Doing it by choice is a different matter.

And I agreed and said it's laudable to want to help out, as would I if asked.

I only mentioned to dole because I was replying to Jurgen

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

So not only are you forcing people into work which would make them worse off financially than the dole you are spreading it like wildfire amongst the workers

MOH

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-bittersweet-business-is-up-by-25pc-but-we-dont-want-to-benefit-in-this-way-off-licences-buckle-up-for-busy-weekend-39119774.html

off licences “play an important role in the fight against COVID-19 by reducing queues and overcrowding in the supermarket and mixed-trade settings”.

Loafing Oaf

JRant wrote: »

We've never had such draconian restrictions before in this country either. I doubt the army would be used in all honesty. If it got to that stage the government have already lost the battle.

Yeah people defying the restrictions will rarely be doing it in the kind of overtly confrontational way that the army would be well suited to handle. Not like lads holding illicit house parties are going to barricade themselves in and start throwing petrol bombs...

thebaz

BanditLuke wrote: »

Given the way people here are reacting after a couple of weeks of very lax lockdown i wouldn't be surprised to see the army out on the streets to enforce measures within a week or two.

it is not a lax lockdown - in general Irish people have behaved well, most I have seen social distance and are respecful and keep the laws - yes a few idiots (the spitters) - but I thought we could have large scale rioting and looting by now, like 2 yers ago - that has not happened -

The Army on the street enforcing the law of an unstable Government would be a terrible scenario, right and left wing coup d'etats have happened before - so be careful what you wish for, I value my freedom.

Cork Boy 53

thebaz wrote: »

it is not a lax lockdown - in general Irish people have behaved well, most I have seen social distance and are respecful and keep the laws - yes a few idiots (the spitters) - but I thought we could have large scale rioting and looting by now, like 2 years ago - that has not happened -

The Army on the street enforcing the law of an unstable Government would be a terrible scenario, right and left wing coup d'etats have happened before - so be careful what you wish for, I value my freedom.

Large scale rioting and looting during Storm Emma? Other than what happened at one Lidl store I don`t recall any other incidences of this.

MOH

thebaz wrote: »

it is not a lax lockdown - in general Irish people have behaved well, most I have seen social distance and are respecful and keep the laws - yes a few idiots (the spitters) - but I thought we could have large scale rioting and looting by now, like 2 yers ago - that has not happened -

The Army on the street enforcing the law of an unstable Government would be a terrible scenario, right and left wing coup d'etats have happened before - so be careful what you wish for, I value my freedom.

Most people I know with a modicum of common sense were effectively observing the current lockdown rules (apart from maybe the 2k limit) for at least a week, maybe two, before they were officailly brought in. So close to a month into self-isolation at this stage.

Anyone at this point going "ah sure it's only been a couple of weeks" are probably the same ones who were wedged solid into the supermarkets panic buying and infecting each other right up until lockdown rules had to be made official.
So it's no wonder they'd welcome the army, they wouldn't have a clue how to protect themselves otherwise.