Relaxation of restrictions

donaghs

Cupatae wrote: »

Some people are willing to have that suffering to save the economy. As "they ll die anyway if the economy goes bad"

Even if we gradually open up restrictions , elderly can still cocoon. They won’t be forced to have a coffee with a bunch of strangers. A Depression will kill and hurt far more than this pandemic.

alwald

donaghs wrote: »

It’s been said a million times. The the lockdown just postpones the elderly coccoon even longer. There won’t be a vaccine this year. We can’t make the virus go away. The general population need to Incrementally get the virus and recover. What else can we do?

Has Wuhan done what you suggest?? Did they let all their population get the virus and recover?? and lastly what's their current infection rate after a solid 2 months of lockdown??

Cupatae

donaghs wrote: »

It’s been said a million times. The the lockdown just postpones the elderly coccoon even longer. There won’t be a vaccine this year. We can’t make the virus go away. The general population need to Incrementally get the virus and recover. What else can we do?

We can try our best to make it go away as much as possible, if it has a 2 week shelf life at the end of 3 weeks we could have put a substantial dent in it, If medical experts are recommending this there must be some method to it we arent doing it on a whim an certainly wouldnt be doing it if it had no chance to work,

Maybe kill off the initial spread and then contain zones of outbreaks if there are some. I dont have all the answers but i do know that if medical experts are suggesting this then it should be adhered to.

FloatingVoter

Cupatae wrote: »

We can try our best to make it go away as much as possible, if it has a 2 week shelf life at the end of 3 weeks we could have put a substantial dent in it, If medical experts are recommending this there must be some method to it we arent doing it on a whim an certainly wouldnt be doing it if it had no chance to work,

Maybe kill off the initial spread and then contain on that I zones of outbreaks if there are some. I dont have all the answers but i do know that if medical experts are suggesting this then it should be adhered to.

Agreed wholeheartedly. And on that I bid you all adieu and a safe and peaceful night.

donaghs

alwald wrote: »

Has Wuhan done what you suggest?? Did they let all their population get the virus and recover?? and lastly what's their current infection rate after a solid 2 months of lockdown??

Hard to know going on Chinese statistics. Some say it emerged in November 2019. They suppressed evidence, but were eventually forced to admit/bury the news on New Year’s Eve 2019, with the ridiculous caveat, “there is no evidence of person to person transmission”.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/fact-check-chinas-official-coronavirus-timeline-starts-out%3famp

So given what we know now about 50% asymtomatic cases, yes there could be a good chance that the virus had indeed spread widely through Wuhan. The lockdown obviously helps slow the spread, but I suspect theybe are already reached a kind of herd immunity.

Oficial stats now say the only cases are coming from abroad, and the other day NO-ONE in a country of one billion died of covid. A Great Leap Forward? Or again, no one wants to be bearer of bad news?

alwald

donaghs wrote: »

Hard to know going on Chinese statistics. Some say it emerged in November 2019. They suppressed evidence, but were eventually forced to admit/bury the news on New Year’s Eve 2019, with the ridiculous caveat, “there is no evidence of person to person transmission”.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/fact-check-chinas-official-coronavirus-timeline-starts-out%3famp

So given what we know now about 50% asymtomatic cases, yes there could be a good chance that the virus had indeed spread widely through Wuhan. The lockdown obviously helps slow the spread, but I suspect theybe are already reached a kind of herd immunity.

Oficial stats now say the only cases are coming from abroad, and the other day NO-ONE in a country of one billion died of covid. A Great Leap Forward? Or again, no one wants to be bearer of bad news?

I agree that the virus emerged indeed in November and that the Chinese government wasn't and probably still isn't sharing all the vital information.

The one thing that seems to be evident is that their strict lockdown worked and the WHO are confirming this information.

I personally put all the blame on the Chinese government, but I also think that a strict lockdown (not including a trip to Glendalough or a trip to Howth for a fish & ships) is the only solution.

Herd immunity, as far as I know, wouldn't work as South Korea discovered recently that people previously infected didn't get full immunity and got infected again.

Plumbthedepths

donaghs wrote: »

Hard to know going on Chinese statistics. Some say it emerged in November 2019. They suppressed evidence, but were eventually forced to admit/bury the news on New Year’s Eve 2019, with the ridiculous caveat, “there is no evidence of person to person transmission”.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/fact-check-chinas-official-coronavirus-timeline-starts-out%3famp

So given what we know now about 50% asymtomatic cases, yes there could be a good chance that the virus had indeed spread widely through Wuhan. The lockdown obviously helps slow the spread, but I suspect theybe are already reached a kind of herd immunity.

Oficial stats now say the only cases are coming from abroad, and the other day NO-ONE in a country of one billion died of covid. A Great Leap Forward? Or again, no one wants to be bearer of bad news?

It's late and I'm still up but I wouldn't believe a Chinese calender if it said tomorrow was Sunday

mikiezzz

donaghs wrote: »

Hard to know going on Chinese statistics. Some say it emerged in November 2019. They suppressed evidence, but were eventually forced to admit/bury the news on New Year’s Eve 2019, with the ridiculous caveat, “there is no evidence of person to person transmission”.


So given what we know now about 50% asymtomatic cases, yes there could be a good chance that the virus had indeed spread widely through Wuhan. The lockdown obviously helps slow the spread, but I suspect theybe are already reached a kind of herd immunity.

Oficial stats now say the only cases are coming from abroad, and the other day NO-ONE in a country of one billion died of covid. A Great Leap Forward? Or again, no one wants to be bearer of bad news?

Communist countries are just like this. This pandemic adds another case proving that a totalitarian government's hiding truth can cause holocaust.

The real death toll in China for coronavirus should be much higher than any other country. Wuhan city's cremation stoves are running 24 hours a day. Dead people's mobile phones have to be taken out. A video shows that dead people's phones form piles on the ground at a cremation service venue. Only by counting cremation numbers, China's death toll will be hundreds of thousands.

See this report:
www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/coronavirus-casualties-may-be-higher-in-china-than-reported/1776949

gozunda

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I live in the UK, so I'm talking about that, but there are landlocked countries which are doing better than Ireland because of stricter measures earlier on. As you say yourself, this lockdown cannot last forever, and it will HAVE to be relaxed at some point. People would have found it far easier to stay in for a month in February when the weather was crap than now over the Easter holiday weekend. The virus is here to stay either way and I think locking down earlier would have meant far fewer cases in this first wave.

It's very frustrating to see so many elderly people out and about, especially chatting and non-essential time outside. I understand it's hard, but the entire country has literally shut down to protect them, people have lost their jobs and basically had their lives ruined, and they can't stay in for a few weeks for something which is being done to protect people almost exclusively in their age group?

People love to criticise young people, but it definitely isn't young people around here who are being careless and reckless. The poor behaviour is almost exclusively from people who are 50+.

Would ye away to fek out of that!

You have a hilarious idea about what constitutes being elderly!!!

You say the country has been shut down to protect these 'elderly' and yet at the same time have said that you have an underlying health condition that makes you at risk? So which is it?

You also want the restrictions lifted so eejits can behave like eejits. If there are issues with non compliance - then make a report to the police or whoever. But for god sake stop whinging that it's not fair to the youf. Without the restrictions tens of thousands of people in this country will die and our health system will collapse - with all the consequences for everyone from that. Governments are doing what they are doing in an effort to mitigate that. It's not rocket science ffs.

Tokyo

Mod: Just deleted 64 post of drunken drivel, and responses.

Checkmate19 - Don't post in this thread again, cheers.

Diarmuid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6MZy-2fcBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2I0pqvSHSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg&t=1s

It's difficult for any politican to take this approach and only after the fact will we know who was correct.

Also, deaths that happen now are very visible, the long term effects of this shutdown will be much more diffuse but as significant, if not more so. You are already seeing headlines of 500million people going back into poverty. There are consequences to things like that

the kelt

Checkmate19 wrote: »

Love to know what anyone who says open it up thinks will happen. This virus aint going away and from what i can see is the ones who have let people out have suffered. So what do people who suggest letting people out think. Just let the elderly die.

I think most people aren’t advocating a full lifting of restrictions though that’s the thing. Majority of people realise a full lifting at this stage isn’t possible.

But many believe there could have should have been a partial lifting, there are plenty of businesses out there locked up because there not essential for example that could be opened up on the basis they practise social distancing properly like the supermarkets are.

That’s the balancing act, people can’t stay locked up forever and whilst the majority of people bought into the situation many now are looking are seeing no semblance of a plan, no indication of what needs to happen, just another clap on the back and let’s go for another 3 weeks and see what happens.

Again it is a situation of flux but people aren’t stupid, they understand that but they are capable of understanding a general plan if there was one.

For the vast majority of people that’s the most frustrating thing. People are told every week that the next few days are crucial just keep it going, and then in a few days told again the next few days are crucial and rinse and repeat. To beat this thing the government need to bring the people with them on the journey, they need buy in and I think they are in the verge of that eroding at the minute. I genuinely think if they turn around in 3 weeks with another clap on the back keep it going approach then they general buy in is gone with an awful lot of people.

For this to work and for this to be managed they need to understand and balance 3 approached to this , health and medical, economists and probably most crucial Human Nature and the natural reactions of a people and a populace.

They have experts in the first 2 pulling different ways at different times but seem to be forgetting the third which could be crucial.

Just my own 2 cents.

MadYaker

It’s a longer extension than I was expecting. If May 5th rolls around and they still haven’t sorted out more testing and contact tracing it’ll be another extension.

secman

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Burger King remains open

That doesn't necessarily say it right either. Maybe McDonald's are more responsible employers

JTMan

UK expected to keep the following restrictions in place in the "long term":
- Some element of social distancing
- Shielding of the vulnerable
- Working from home

Anyone who can work from home, and has shown they can work from home, better expect this to be the norm for a long time to come.

ZX7R

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s a longer extension than I was expecting. If May 5th rolls around and they still haven’t sorted out more testing and contact tracing it’ll be another extension.

I posted yesterday that I work in the security industry.
I have been reading many memos the last week in relation to relaxing of recommendations.
There is definitely a push for the consideration industry to return to work from the week of the bank holiday in may.
We are been asked for contingency plans to enable larger construction sites to run 24/7 and having security in place to cover.
There is also memo's for some universities/ collages for the employment of security to enforce social distancing for exams ECT.
The restrictions in place will not go on indefinitely,they will be relaxed in stages but some restrictions will remain for the foreseeable future.

Blueshoe

JTMan wrote: »

UK expected to keep the following restrictions in place in the "long term":
- Some element of social distancing
- Shielding of the vulnerable
- Working from home

Anyone who can work from home, and has shown they can work from home, better expect this to be the norm for a long time to come.

Great. The more that can work from home the better. Many people are anxious about the so they can continue to work away and contribute tax euro to the exchequer.

I can't work from home and am on essential services list so the couple of days that I am doing are a pleasure to drive around our cities and towns. No traffic.

Stay home and keep working guys

completedit

While we will die all one day and I think that's largely missing from the rhetroric, the problem at least from the soundbites of WHO and governments has been the pressure on the healthcare system. We can't exact take a radical eugenic approach and just let old people die inhumanely. So, we risk the health care system collapsing which is pretty much the reason for these restrictions.

2011

Ace2007 wrote: »

Baz - what does median age mean?

thebaz wrote: »

its been answered better by many , but simply - average age

Not quite.
There is a lot of confusion about this term.

Take a set of numbers:

Mean = average = add all the numbers together and divide by the number of numbers.

Median = list all of the numbers in numerical order from smallest to largest and the median is the middle value.

Mode = the number that occurs most times

JTMan

JTMan wrote: »

UK expected to keep the following restrictions in place in the "long term":
- Some element of social distancing
- Shielding of the vulnerable
- Working from home

Anyone who can work from home, and has shown they can work from home, better expect this to be the norm for a long time to come.

I agree. And although I am an advocate of relaxing restrictions from May, allowing businesses to open, travel to be allowed, cafes and restaurants to operate, retail to reopen, the three things you mention will remain.

The elderly and vulnerable will need to continue to cocoon, social distancing principles will remain wherever possible, and I am not expecting to see my office again until September at the earliest. I doubt pubs or venues or sports grounds will open either

alwald

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree. And although I am an advocate of relaxing restrictions from May, allowing businesses to open, travel to be allowed, cafes and restaurants to operate, retail to reopen, the three things you mention will remain.

The elderly and vulnerable will need to continue to cocoon, social distancing principles will remain wherever possible, and I am not expecting to see my office again until September at the earliest. I doubt pubs or venues or sports grounds will open either

Cafes, restaurants, bars, gig venues and all other similar businesses are the last ones to be allowed to open.
I will put a question mark on traveling abroad too.

OMM 0000

These restrictions weren't necessary in the first place.

I cannot believe the EU and US still haven't copped on that wearing masks almost totally blocks transmission of this virus.

Look at Hong Kong - business as usual, never any shutdown, yet only 4 people have died and almost all cases of the virus (under 1k) are imported.

What is so special about Hong Kong? Everyone wearing masks outside their homes.

lord quackinton

And when many Irish people realise their jobs are gone and the 350 is now 200 Jobseeker’s Allowance and The very state that made them jobless is now on their case about work

And when pay cuts and extra taxes become the norm

And when our health system becomes even Worse and the housing crisis becomes an actual crisis

Let’s remember who wanted this lockdown
Let’s hold these people accountable

Penfailed

lord quackinton wrote: »

And when many Irish people realise their jobs are gone and the 350 is now 200 Jobseeker’s Allowance and The very state that made them jobless is now on their case about work

And when pay cuts and extra taxes become the norm

And when our health system becomes even Worse and the housing crisis becomes an actual crisis

Let’s remember who wanted this lockdown
Let’s hold these people accountable

No one wants a lockdown. It's a necessary evil.

Edgware

Cupatae wrote: »

Little "Im Immune " stickers and ya can go anywhere haha

Well it works in Kerry with the "I have had only 2 pints and live within 2 miles of the pub" badges

OMM 0000

Penfailed wrote: »

It's a necessary evil.

It wasn't.

The problem is the EU and US completely ignored the virus, completely ignored how Asia was handling it (masks), and let too many people get infected.

The lockdown was totally unnecessary and the leadership in the West have completely failed.

It should be possible to end the lockdown in Ireland very soon, and life going back to relatively normal, but people need to wear masks. That's how we're able to continue living normally in Asia. No lockdown.

Blueshoe

lord quackinton wrote: »

And when many Irish people realise their jobs are gone and the 350 is now 200 Jobseeker’s Allowance and The very state that made them jobless is now on their case about work

And when pay cuts and extra taxes become the norm

And when our health system becomes even Worse and the housing crisis becomes an actual crisis

Let’s remember who wanted this lockdown
Let’s hold these people accountable

Remember the chap that ate the bat that lead to a global pandemic and the country that tried to cover it up. If you have an axe to grind head to China to air your grievances.
Tell us how you get on

lord quackinton

lord quackinton wrote: »

And when many Irish people realise their jobs are gone and the 350 is now 200 Jobseeker’s Allowance and The very state that made them jobless is now on their case about work

And when pay cuts and extra taxes become the norm

And when our health system becomes even Worse and the housing crisis becomes an actual crisis

Let’s remember who wanted this lockdown
Let’s hold these people accountable

A large proportion of the world is on lockdown. Without lockdown, you'd have a collapsed healthcare system and thousands dying. You'd also likely still have a huge amount of job losses because of global uncertainty and international clients dropping contracts.

suicide_circus

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It wasn't.

The problem is the EU and US completely ignored the virus, completely ignored how Asia was handling it (masks), and let too many people get infected.

The lockdown was totally unnecessary and the leadership in the West have completely failed.

It should be possible to end the lockdown in Ireland very soon, and life going back to relatively normal, but people need to wear masks. That's how we're able to continue living normally in Asia. No lockdown.

OK if we go with your premise, then yes the leadership of the west has failed but politicians were largely following the medical advice given and the WHO continues to say masks are not effective. All a politician can really do us go with the expert advice at the end of the day

OMM 0000

suicide_circus wrote: »

OK if we go with your premise, then yes the leadership of the west has failed but politicians were largely following the medical advice given and the WHO continues to say masks are not effective. All a politician can really do us go with the expert advice at the end of the day

The WHO are lying, I don't know why.

If we wanted to get into conspiracy theories, we can say the WHO are corrupt, bought by the Chinese, and the Chinese are using this opportunity to totally screw up the West.

But more likely it's just complete incompetence.

Everyone in China is wearing masks, and that's why they had very limited transmission outside of a few hotspots. Shanghai and Beijing were barely affected. Hong Kong and Macau, maybe the most densely populated places in the world, have had very limited local transmission.

It's very obvious the solution is masks. If you wear a mask, it greatly reduces the risk of you infecting anyone else, and also reduces your risk of being infected.

People need to stop listening to WHO and start using common sense.

Right now the leadership in the West are destroying their economies, and it's not necessary.

I commute between Japan, China, Hong Kong and Taiwan for work.