Relaxation of restrictions

rusty the athlete

Deleted User wrote: »

The elderly and vulnerable will need to continue to cocoon

Not the active fit and healthy elderly otherwise their physical and mental state will deteriorate to an extent that they are no longer fit and healthy. Just look after yourself and mind your own business about the elderly.

Blueshoe

Blueshoe wrote: »

Remember the chap that ate the bat that lead to a global pandemic and the country that tried to cover it up. If you have an axe to grind head to China to air your grievances.
Tell us how you get on

They have no holiday home in China!

polesheep

rusty the athlete wrote: »

Not the active fit and healthy elderly otherwise their physical and mental state will deteriorate to an extent that they are no longer fit and healthy. Just look after yourself and mind your own business about the elderly.

Dem's fighting words grandpa:D I completely agree with you. I met a neighbour walking in the local green yesterday morning at around 8am. She is mid seventies and she was almost hiding. She remarked that she might have to dye her hair in order to get out such were the dirty looks that she has been getting lately. She normally walks briskly for 10k every day and would be fitter and healthier than many people half her age. Age is not a factor if the person is healthy and fit. A lot of younger, obese people are having problems in hospital with Covid. Judging by your name I assume that you are fighting fit... if a little rusty;). Good luck to you.

citysights

Immunity passports, there’s an article about this in today’s Irish Independent ( we’ll actually a question and answers session) with Dr. Cillian De Gascun.
I can’t read the full article because it’s behind a paywall.

In another article I have read on these passports, the idea is a blood test is taken to see if people have anti bodies to covid 19, then if people do they are considered to have some immunity at least and are then allowed to return to work. I do not know if any country is trying to adopt this. Germany is mentioned in the first article.The title says the Indo article seems to be suggesting that these passports might be the route back to work for people but again hard to say having not full access to it.

OMM 0000

citysights wrote: »

Immunity passports, there’s an article about this in today’s Irish Independent ( we’ll actually a question and answers session) with Dr. Cillian De Gascun.
I can’t read the full article because it’s behind a paywall.

In another article I have read on these passports, the idea is a blood test is taken to see if people have anti bodies to covid 19, then if people do they are considered to have some immunity at least and are then allowed to return to work. I do not know if any country is trying to adopt this. Germany is mentioned in the first article.

Why not just let people go back to work wearing masks, live they've done in Asia? Almost no local transmission in the workplace.

What am I missing here.

Western leadership not thinking? A power grab? I really don't get it.

It's incredibly frustrating watching this from Asia. The West needlessly destroying themselves.

Penfailed

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It wasn't.

The problem is the EU and US completely ignored the virus, completely ignored how Asia was handling it (masks), and let too many people get infected.

The lockdown was totally unnecessary and the leadership in the West have completely failed.

It should be possible to end the lockdown in Ireland very soon, and life going back to relatively normal, but people need to wear masks. That's how we're able to continue living normally in Asia. No lockdown.

That doesn't get away from the fact that there still aren't enough masks to go around...

OMM 0000

Penfailed wrote: »

That doesn't get away from the fact that there still aren't enough masks to go around...

Yes, I agree with you there.

Let's hope the West learns from this and starts moving manufacturing back home.

We could get stuff made in cheaper countries like Bulgaria rather than China.

Downlinz

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The WHO are lying, I don't know why.

If we wanted to get into conspiracy theories, we can say the WHO are corrupt, bought by the Chinese, and the Chinese are using this opportunity to totally screw up the West.

But more likely it's just complete incompetence.

They downplayed the importance of masks because there's a global shortage and they're terrified healthcare workers may have to treat patients without which is already partially happening regardless.
The conspiracy theories are absurd, there's no reason to think any organisation or country is trying to commit some sort of genocide here.

Wearing masks is helpful for everyone but the supply isn't there and we all know what would have happened to the limited supply if wealthy westerners were told the truth.
Encouraging people to make homemade masks was probably the best solution in the early stages but the west was far too fixated with the "don't panic" message to ensure business kept running smoothly.

rusty the athlete

polesheep wrote: »

if a little rusty;). Good luck to you.

Rusty - not a bit of it! Brand spanking new!

Cork Boy 53

rusty the athlete wrote: »

Rusty - not a bit of it! Brand spanking new!

Are you still sticking to your usual running routine?

rusty the athlete

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Are you still sticking to your usual running routine?

Lets call it er.. a 'brisk walking' routine. Old soccer injuries impose a speed limit of 6.5 km per hour.

OMM 0000

Downlinz wrote: »

Wearing masks is helpful for everyone but the supply isn't there and we all know what would have happened to the limited supply if wealthy westerners were told the truth.
Encouraging people to make homemade masks was probably the best solution in the early stages but the west was far too fixated with the "don't panic" message to ensure business kept running smoothly.

They handled it poorly though.

I remember them literally saying "masks don't work", which would have encouraged people with masks to not bother wearing them.

And we are admitting here that our governments lied to us.

I agree with you that a compromise of teaching people how to make homemade masks was a better message.

OMM 0000

Btw there are tons of masks available in Asia.

I see boxes of them everywhere now.

citysights

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Why not just let people go back to work wearing masks, live they've done in Asia? Almost no local transmission in the workplace.

What am I missing here.

Western leadership not thinking? A power grab? I really don't get it.

It's incredibly frustrating watching this from Asia. The West needlessly destroying themselves.

I don’t know. At the moment here people are not allowed to work( if their work is not from home) which is most people anyway. We’ve had two weeks and now three more, meanwhile there are bills to be paid, families to feed, life is on hold.

OMM 0000

citysights wrote: »

I don’t know. At the moment here people are not allowed to work( if their work is not from home) which is most people anyway. We’ve had two weeks and now three more, meanwhile there are bills to be paid, families to feed, life is on hold.

I hope there is a compromise soon (e.g. x and y people can return to work) so at least there is a bit of hope in the air.

I cannot imagine how stressful it must be if you have no savings, rent to pay, and no sense of when you can start earning again.

Podge201

citysights wrote: »

I don’t know. At the moment here people are not allowed to work( if their work is not from home) which is most people anyway. We’ve had two weeks and now three more, meanwhile there are bills to be paid, families to feed, life is on hold.

Any working person that is out of work is entitled to the covid payment. Mortgage payments and loan payments can be put on hold. You need to have a look at your lifestyle if you cannot pay a utility bill or two and buy food.

BruteStock

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It wasn't.

The problem is the EU and US completely ignored the virus, completely ignored how Asia was handling it (masks), and let too many people get infected.

The lockdown was totally unnecessary and the leadership in the West have completely failed.

It should be possible to end the lockdown in Ireland very soon, and life going back to relatively normal, but people need to wear masks. That's how we're able to continue living normally in Asia. No lockdown.

What lockdown? You don't know anything about lockdown , none of us do.

I can get in my car right now and drive from one part of the country to the other.

I can leave the house and go for a walk/run. I can visit a friend or relative. I can go for a beer run.

I can go to my local park and sit down for as long as I want.

When Wuhan went into lockdown , it meant the entire City was completely sealed off and 9 million of its people were quarantined to their homes.
Later the lockdown was extended to the entire Provence. Over 50 million people locked up in their homes.

Armed forces surrounded Wuhan and - nobody went in / nobody went out. It was piratically an encapsulated bubble

The people of Wuhan knowing the lockdown was going to be so severe , tried to flee the city to avoid becoming prisoner in their own homes , which ultimately happened to them for MONTHS.

Only now are the restrictions being eased up and this happened to them back in Nov/Dec.

Thats what lockdown really is. And thats what we will (the west) have to go through to beat this thing , so lockdown will absolutely not end in Ireland anytime soon.
And it would be a complete disaster if it did.

For example , Joe Bloggs goes out on the weekend , he goes to work Monday. All good. He wakes up Tues in a bad condition , calls work to tell them he can't come in.
Later he finds he has the covid. He never knew he had it in work on Monday. Now others have it and they also are unable to go to work.

Everybody who works there now has to quarantine for 2 weeks. That workplace now is no better off than it was under the lockdown. Do you not get that?

How do you think hospital workers feel when they hear people selfishly expect and want life to go back to normal?

More interaction and movement of people means more people being sent to the hospital with covid disease.
The doctors and nurses are dealing with that and in return putting their own lives at risk.

This is the biggest game changer you will ever experience in your life. Nobody on here really understands the devastation it has already caused.

A monumental global recession is what awaits us , not a return to normalcy.

Debenhams is gone- never returning. 100's of small business will never return. They are gone forever.

To be blunt about it - most people are mentally weak and can't cope. They will pathetically argue that x amount of lives lost is acceptable as long as it means they go for a coffee in town.

Most people are too weak willed to knuckle down and endure short term pain for long term gain. Most people only care about themselves.

lord quackinton

Blueshoe wrote: »

Remember the chap that ate the bat that lead to a global pandemic and the country that tried to cover it up. If you have an axe to grind head to China to air your grievances.
Tell us how you get on

China gave us the virus and are now making billions from us

Our leaders have taken the baton from them and decided to beat us with it

There is a reckoning coming between those who want a complete end to this madness lockdown now and those who back this government plan
And when normality returns we will proven to be right

OMM 0000

BruteStock wrote: »

What lockdown? You don't know anything about lockdown , none of us do.

I can get in my car right now and drive from one part of the country to the other.

I can leave the house and go for a walk/run. I can visit a friend or relative. I can go for a beer run.

I can go to my local park and sit down for as long as I want.

When Wuhan went into lockdown , it meant the entire City was completely sealed off and 9 million of its people were quarantined to their homes.
Later the lockdown was extended to the entire Provence. Over 50 million people locked up in their homes.

Armed forces surrounded Wuhan and - nobody went in / nobody went out. It was piratically an encapsulated bubble

The people of Wuhan knowing the lockdown was going to be so severe , tried to flee the city to avoid becoming prisoner in their own homes , which ultimately happened to them for MONTHS.

Only now are the restrictions being eased up and this happened to them back in Nov/Dec.

Thats what lockdown really is. And thats what we will (the west) have to go through to beat this thing , so lockdown will absolutely not end in Ireland anytime soon.
And it would be a complete disaster if it did.

For example , Joe Bloggs goes out on the weekend , he goes to work Monday. All good. He wakes up Tues in a bad condition , calls work to tell them he can't come in.
Later he finds he has the covid. He never knew he had it in work on Monday. Now others have it and they also are unable to go to work.

Everybody who works there now has to quarantine for 2 weeks. That workplace now is no better off than it was under the lockdown. Do you not get that?

How do you think hospital workers feel when they hear people selfishly expect and want life to go back to normal?

More interaction and movement of people means more people being sent to the hospital with covid disease.
The doctors and nurses are dealing with that and in return putting their own lives at risk.

This is the biggest game changer to will ever experience in your life. Nobody on here really understands the devastation it has already caused.

A monumental global recession is what awaits us , not a return to normalcy.

Debenhams is gone- never returning. 100's of small business will never return. They are gone forever.

To be blunt about it - most people are mentally weak and can't cope. They will pathetically argue that x amount of lives lost is acceptable as long as it means they go for a coffee in town.

Most people are too weak willed to knuckle down and endure short term pain for long term pain. Most people only care about themselves.

The West waited too long and let a Wuhan happen to them. It is extraordinary incompetence.

For months I was warning my family back home that the West is ignoring this problem and it's going to be dire, so at least they were able to get prepared (hundreds of masks, lots of food, etc.)

Where I disagree with you is your work analogy.

I'll give a specific example.

So right now I'm in Hong Kong and a guy who works in Marks and Spencer's infected three of his colleagues.

But he never infected them while at work, because they all wear masks. Nor has he infected any customers, who would all be wearing masks too.

He infected his colleagues at a drinking party, where they all took off their masks and spent hours crowded together.

Everyone is working as normal here, and no one is getting infected at work. Why? Because masks.

The only infections we are saying are these four types:

1. Imported.
2. Pubs.
3. Banquets.
4. Family members infecting each other.

Wearing masks virtually stops transmission. The proof is undeniable at this stage.

castletownman

You still can't equate the most populated country in the world to Ireland. They are a Communist country too where they wouldn't exactly be at the forefront of citizen's rights. Their hygiene practises and eating habits are known to be well below Western standards too.

Like apples and oranges.

BruteStock

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The West waited too long and let a Wuhan happen to them. It is extraordinary incompetence.

For months I was warning my family back home that the West is ignoring this problem and it's going to be dire, so at least they were able to get prepared (hundreds of masks, lots of food, etc.)

Where I disagree with you is your work analogy.

I'll give a specific example.

So right now I'm in Hong Kong and a guy who works in Marks and Spencer's infected three of his colleagues.

But he never infected them while at work, because they all wear masks. Nor has he infected any customers, who would all be wearing masks too.

He infected his colleagues at a drinking party, where they all took off their masks and spent hours crowded together.

Everyone is working as normal here, and no one is getting infected at work. Why? Because masks.

The only infections we are saying are these four types:

1. Imported.
2. Pubs.
3. Banquets.
4. Family members infecting each other.

Wearing masks virtually stops transmission. The proof is undeniable at this stage.

Yes , agree. We waited way too long and now we have to deal with the fallout. And that means lockdown won't be ending anytime soon.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

Cafes, restaurants, bars, gig venues and all other similar businesses are the last ones to be allowed to open.
I will put a question mark on traveling abroad too.

Cafes and restaurants will open I think because they are seating and therefore distancing can be managed. Bars and venues and sports grounds don’t have that advantage

citysights

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I hope there is a compromise soon (e.g. x and y people can return to work) so at least there is a bit of hope in the air.

I cannot imagine how stressful it must be if you have no savings, rent to pay, and no sense of when you can start earning again.

Thanks, am not too bad actually but recognize that this is very difficult for some people.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cafes and restaurants will open I think because they are seating and therefore distancing can be managed. Bars and venues and sports grounds don’t have that advantage

Cafes and restaurants can manage social distancing for customers...but probably not for staff.

rusty the athlete

rusty the athlete wrote: »

Not the active fit and healthy elderly otherwise their physical and mental state will deteriorate to an extent that they are no longer fit and healthy. Just look after yourself and mind your own business about the elderly.

If cocooning the elderly and vulnerable means that the rest of the country can get on and start to rescue what is left of the domestic economy, then I think that will have to be how it is.

OMM 0000

Penfailed wrote: »

Cafes and restaurants can manage social distancing for customers...but probably not for staff.

I think cafes, restaurants, and pubs should be the last things to open, as they involve people not wearing masks.

A lot of cafes and restaurants are dealing with this in Hong Kong by being takeout only.

The government had to close pubs here. Too much risk there.

beolight

Deaths per million is the column to look at this is the true barometer of how effective Governments have been in preventing the spread.

Take a look at the countries and compare the suite of measures they have used to combat the virus ... dare I say masks, transparency on hot spot locations, effective contact tracing , border restrictions, quarantine measures for visitors spring to mind. Would also be interesting to get any information on how good their health system is

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Sweden 86
USA 54
Ireland 58
UK 50
Italy 312
France 202
Spain 342
Germany 32
Holland 147
Israel 11
Poland 5

China 2
New Zealand 0.4
Singapore 1
South Korea 4
Taiwan 0.3
Hong Kong 0.5

https://twitter.com/shadihamid/status/1248660728191553536?s=20

Penfailed

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think cafes, restaurants, and pubs should be the last things to open, as they involve people not wearing masks.

A lot of cafes and restaurants are dealing with this in Hong Kong by being takeout only.

The government had to close pubs here. Too much risk there.

I agree.

Discodog

I don't want to sink the mood even more but I was listening to an interview with an expert, on Irish radio, who said that he didn't expect large crowds like sports, concerts etc for at least a year - he meant a calendar year.

Plumbthedepths

I mentioned immunity passports/ certs yesterday I inadvertently attributed to the Australian government proposing them when it was Australian health experts. I was roundly sneered at by a few here including lies being made up and attributed to me.
Looks like the idea is gaining traction.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/q-and-a-passports-and-tests-could-provide-path-out-of-coronavirus-lockdown-and-return-to-work-39120218.html