Relaxation of restrictions

mikiezzz

lord quackinton wrote: »

China gave us the virus and are now making billions from us

Our leaders have taken the baton from them and decided to beat us with it

There is a reckoning coming between those who want a complete end to this madness lockdown now and those who back this government plan
And when normality returns we will proven to be right

Actually there some countries now started holding China responsible for the immense death and economic damage caused by coronavirus, and seeking compensation from China.

See this report:
* Covid-19 a bio-weapon, say jurists, file complaint against China in UNHRC

and this video tracking down the origin of coronavirus:

Thelonious Monk

Apparently South Korean officials on Friday reported 91 patients thought cleared of the new coronavirus had tested positive again. So the immunity passports may be pointless!

Thelonious Monk

mikiezzz wrote: »

Actually there some countries now started holding China responsible for the immense death and economic damage caused by coronavirus, and seeking compensation from China.

We could always just stop sending all of our manufacturing over there and keep jobs and production in Europe. This would mean we'd have to pay more for everything and wouldn't be able to afford as much stuff, so in reality people would probably prefer to just keep sending China the business.

sterz

Discodog wrote: »

I don't want to sink the mood even more but I was listening to an interview with an expert, on Irish radio, who said that he didn't expect large crowds like sports, concerts etc for at least a year - he meant a calendar year.

Guess when sporting events start up again you're looking at them being played behind closed doors for the initial few months. And I see that some teams have gone back to training already:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/05/bayern-munich-to-return-to-training-small-groups-bundesliga

Plumbthedepths

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Apparently South Korean officials on Friday reported 91 patients thought cleared of the new coronavirus had tested positive again. So the immunity passports may be pointless!

Do you believe all research should be cancelled so. Just lockdown for ever?
Can you link to the Korean official report please.

Phoebas

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Apparently South Korean officials on Friday reported 91 patients thought cleared of the new coronavirus had tested positive again. So the immunity passports may be pointless!

91 out of how many?
None of the tests are going to be 100% accurate, but we need to work as best we can with what we have.

CruelSummer

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

Phoebas

mikiezzz wrote: »

Actually there some countries now started holding China responsible for the immense death and economic damage caused by coronavirus, and seeking compensation from China.

What countries?

Thelonious Monk

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you believe all research should be cancelled so. Just lockdown for ever?
Can you link to the Korean official report please.

Your usual cheery self today. I dont know of any reports i just read it on the guardian.

Plumbthedepths

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Your usual cheery self today. I dont know of any reports i just read it on the guardian.

I asked you a question, why the snide personal remark?
You made a claim I asked for evidence, it's a standard of a discussion forum.

OMM 0000

Phoebas wrote: »

What countries?

I remember reading the US, UK and India have been holding discussions about China paying 5 trillion or something like that.

Nollog

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you believe all research should be cancelled so. Just lockdown for ever?
Can you link to the Korean official report please.

It was linked in the main covid thread yesterday from Twitter, it was only 51% or something then though.

The test for recovery in SK is 2 negative test results within 48 hours, so they're likely just false negatives being sent home.

My personal biased explanation for the "reactivation" is faulty testing kits from China.

alwald

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

You should seriously document yourself on this virus to answer your own questions.
Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please? They can also be selfish and give up their duties altogether.

Phoebas

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I remember reading the US, UK and India have been holding discussions about China paying 5 trillion or something like that.

That sounds utterly implausible.
Maybe some politicians are talking to themselves about China paying 5tn. I'd be gobsmacked if they were having discussions with the Chinese government about it.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

You should seriously document yourself on this virus to answer your own questions.
Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please? They can also be selfish and give up their duties all together.

Your point is not without merit, but do you believe that we stay in lockdown until we get a vaccine? We can’t do that, and the government won’t try.

So, yes, we will get to a point when we go about our lives (with the continued restrictions on mass gatherings like venues etc, as has been talked about on this thread), and rely on medic staff to deal with ICU cases as they arise.

I don’t see us getting beyond June without moving into that phase of semi normality (which will include domestic travel and holidaying)

Cork Boy 53

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Btw there are tons of masks available in Asia.

I see boxes of them everywhere now.

If the reports of a second wave of the virus in eastern Asia are reliable they may soon all be needed there.

KiKi III

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

Now there’s an opinion that hasn’t been expressed on this thread so far.

You say “We are not Italy. We are not Wuhan.”

Has it occurred to you that that’s precisely because of the restrictions we have in place?

alwald

Deleted User wrote: »

Your point is not without merit, but do you believe that we stay in lockdown until we get a vaccine? We can’t do that, and the government won’t try.

So, yes, we will get to a point when we go about our lives (with the continued restrictions on mass gatherings like venues etc, as has been talked about on this thread), and rely on medic staff to deal with ICU cases as they arise.

I don’t see us getting beyond June without moving into that phase of semi normality (which will include domestic travel and holidaying)

No country can stay in this lockdown until we get a vaccine but few things need to happen first before easing the restrictions bit by bit. Let's be honest, Ireland is not near this point yet hence the straight 3 weeks announced yesterday.

Domestic travel and holidaying are the last pieces of restrictions to be lifted. it is hard to implement the social distancing measures in them.

Plumbthedepths

/\/ollog wrote: »

It was linked in the main covid thread yesterday from Twitter, it was only 51% or something then though.

The test for recovery in SK is 2 negative test results within 48 hours, so they're likely just false negatives being sent home.

My personal biased explanation for the "reactivation" is faulty testing kits from China.

Thanks for the reply.

Phoebas

alwald wrote: »

Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please?

There will come a time in this crisis where restrictions are eased (like hardware shops opening and people being allowed to travel around the country) and this will result in additional people ending up in hospital.

The only question is the timing of it. Now is too early imo but it's only a matter of weeks.

KiKi III

Phoebas wrote: »

There will come a time in this crisis where restrictions are eased (like hardware shops opening and people being allowed to travel around the country) and this will result in additional people ending up in hospital.

The only question is the timing of it. Now is too early imo but it's only a matter of weeks.

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

CruelSummer

alwald wrote: »

You should seriously document yourself on this virus to answer your own questions.
Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please? They can also be selfish and give up their duties altogether.

I didn’t state ‘going to DIY shops as I please’ - I said trading should be allowed with similar limitations to supermarkets. What exactly is wrong with that?
I haven’t left my home area since the start of locking so won’t be travelling around the country either, but I don’t approve of the behaviour of ‘locals’ towards people going to homes they own to check on them, seems draconian, narrow minded and unwanted behaviour.
I know a lot of people working on the front line, they are not under an enormous amount of pressure and are getting concerned people with other conditions e.g. cancer will be missed. I also know some medical workers that had the virus and are now recovered but not back at work. How many more people are out there in this situation, we need to get the country moving again. Most business owners say the longer the restrictions last, the worse it will be.

Phoebas

KiKi III wrote: »

It was reported in the Indo.

Yep. Garden centres and hardware stores.
Makes sense I suppose - give people the tools to do stuff in their own homes and they're more likely to stay in for the next 3 weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/bank-holiday-weekend-confusion-as-new-laws-allow-garden-centres-and-hardware-shops-to-reopen-39116286.html

alwald

alwald wrote: »

Domestic travel and holidaying are the last pieces of restrictions to be lifted. it is hard to implement the social distancing measures in them.

I don’t think that you can restrict that. As soon as the 2km is eliminated along with the concept of any movement having to be for essential purposes only, people will be able to head to the beaches and countryside.

Pubs will remain shut, I have no doubt, but restrictions of movement of the population in general I don’t see lasting into June

sterz

CruelSummer wrote: »

I didn’t state ‘going to DIY shops as I please’ - I said trading should be allowed with similar limitations to supermarkets. What exactly is wrong with that?
I haven’t left my home area since the start of locking so won’t be travelling around the country either, but I don’t approve of the behaviour of ‘locals’ towards people going to homes they own to check on them, seems draconian, narrow minded and unwanted behaviour.
I know a lot of people working on the front line, they are not under an enormous amount of pressure and are getting concerned people with other conditions e.g. cancer will be missed. I also know some medical workers that had the virus and are now recovered but not back at work. How many more people are out there in this situation, we need to get the country moving again. Most business owners say the longer the restrictions last, the worse it will be.

You conveniently seem to know a hell of a lot of people.

CruelSummer

KiKi III wrote: »

Now there’s an opinion that hasn’t been expressed on this thread so far.

You say “We are not Italy. We are not Wuhan.”

Has it occurred to you that that’s precisely because of the restrictions we have in place?

Of course it is, and the government&health services have done a great job. But those cities are taking the draconian measures because of the high number of cases and deaths. You need an exit strategy or the measures taken will cause more damage than the virus itself. I feel the government have gone quite heavy with the new Garda powers, extra restrictions, etc., despite their stated R0 value now being close to 1. And quite a low number of deaths relative to cases, that is assuming the figures provided are accurate.

Cork Boy 53

KiKi III wrote: »

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware/garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I have been told this by several people who work in them.

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

It's quite simple. There aren't enough masks for everyone.

Plumbthedepths

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware;garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I know this from several people who work in them.

Is there any news source that you would find acceptable? Or do you need multiple sources.
Every link provided regardless of the source there is usually someone who will dismiss it as not reliable.

KiKi III

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware;garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I have been told this by several people who work in them.

There’s some confusion around it and as a result some businesses are choosing to remain closed but it seems like legally they can indeed open.