Relaxation of restrictions

Plumbthedepths

Penfailed wrote: »

It's quite simple. There aren't enough masks for everyone.

Make your own, it's also quite simple

Idbatterim

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

Lundstram

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

Agreed. This can't go on for much longer. 17% unemployed already, potential to rise to 40% by June. There might come a point where the weakest in society will have to cocoon themselves when the restrictions are lifted. Sad but it's for the greater good.

Life will have to move on eventually.

OMM 0000

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

And the even bigger divide between the rich and the poor results in greater social unrest, more extreme politicians getting elected, and then we're in trouble.

Barely anyone is thinking things through.

Plumbthedepths

OMM 0000 wrote: »

And the even bigger divide between the rich and the poor results in greater social unrest, more extreme politicians getting elected, and then we're in trouble.

Barely anyone is thinking things through.

If you think things through and respond in kind you are accused of wanting to see everyone dead.

completedit

True, It’s so easy for us with families with good sized homes and gardens but not everyone is in this situation. I keep forgetting this when I say the whole situation is grand when the reality for a lot of people it is a brutal situation that is only going to get worse. Absolutely fine and dandy if you’re paid to be at home with the missus and Sorcha and Culann and can save a good bit right now, but for a lot of people the future is now looking very bleak.

It would take the real prospect of a Great Depression for the above to get their head out of their ass.

When is the situation in the clear? When the pressure groups start getting in the government ear.

Idbatterim

Last recession, what caused all of the main and issues? before we have a lethal virus to contend with? the states finances obviousl. I think they forecast a deficit now this year of twenty billion. I would say half of that figure is unnceccesary, a lot of workers, are getting more on the E350 payment, than they were working (look, in general, I totally agree that workers should get more if made redundant, but the figures are HUGE and this is the irish government we are talking about, this issue is going to go on and on).

secondly, the shutting down of certain businesses for longer than expected, this is another several billion, as well as possibly finishing many of these companies off. if they havent already...

Listen, thank god I put a few thousand aside. Leo varadkar telling me, FG are the most capable with the "economy" LOL! they might be in this country, but they are blatantly appalling , populist, unwilling to make any "tough choices" not surprised we are run off a cliff again, obviously nobody could have foreseen, this is how it would come about though! But current policies, are going to make things down the road, a lot worse, than they need to be I reckon and I can see fierce backlash, when the music stops and they introduce an emergency budget, to claw back billions, that they themselves have dug a hole for an expect us to pay

OMM 0000

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you think things through and respond in kind you are accused of wanting to see everyone dead.

Black and white thinking is all the rage these days.

Why use nuance when you can jump to extremes and get outraged?

Plumbthedepths

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Black and white thinking is all the rage these days.

Why use nuance when you can jump to extremes and get outraged?

Facebook generation and the seeking of likes, only here it's 'thanks'.

Discodog

KiKi III wrote: »

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

Really ? I know people that have been lobbying for this & I didn't see it. Gardeners are desperate to get back & there is no reason why they shouldn't as they can easily distance.

So they can legally open but are advised not to - that's helpful

alwald

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

You will also lose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Discodog

alwald wrote: »

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

yes but whilst you are reviving the economy you make cuts in services which can also kill people. One reason we are in a mess is because of previous health cuts.

Sam Hain

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will also loose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The word is not "loose".

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will also loose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I don't follow you here. Can you elaborate please?

Discodog wrote: »

yes but whilst you are reviving the economy you make cuts in services which can also kill people. One reason we are in a mess is because of previous health cuts.

I disagree with this statement, while cuts might happen and they remain to be seen, previous cuts are not the reason we are in this mess. All countries around the world are in this mess regardless of how much they spent/cut from their health system. No-one planned for such unforeseen events.

KiKi III

Discodog wrote: »

yes but whilst you are reviving the economy you make cuts in services which can also kill people. One reason we are in a mess is because of previous health cuts.

Everything I’ve heard so far suggests governments are planning to go down the route of printing money/ spending our way out of this one as opposed to austerity.

Plumbthedepths

Sam Hain wrote: »

The word is not "loose".

Changed to what it should be, but I suspect you knew what I meant. Predictive text.

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

I don't follow you here. Can you elaborate please?



I disagree with this statement, while cuts might happen and they remain to be seen, previous cuts are not the reason we are in this mess. All countries around the world are in this mess regardless of how much they spent/cut from their health system. No-one planned for such unforeseen events.

You don't understand that you need a functioning economy to support people and provide services?

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You don't understand that you need a functioning economy to support people and provide services?

That's what you think I don't understand...lose a lot of people, how so?
People are being supported and the EU is coming up with solutions so what don't you understand in all of this??

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

That's what you think I don't understand...lose a lot of people, how so?
People are being supported and the EU is coming up with solutions so what don't you understand in all of this??

Ah yes the EU reaction.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/10/europe/eu-bungled-coronavirus-response-analysis-intl/index.html

Greentopia

Discodog wrote: »

Really ? I know people that have been lobbying for this & I didn't see it. Gardeners are desperate to get back & there is no reason why they shouldn't as they can easily distance.

So they can legally open but are advised not to - that's helpful

i'm a P/T gardener and would love to get back. There's no reason I couldn't work the same as before because obviously I work outdoors and I can easily socially distance from anyone else. But I know the owners will err on the side of caution and say no for insurance/health and safety reasons and stay closed. There should be clear and consistent advice on this, it's frustrating.

I also think there's a case for letting garden centres stay open. I have friends who have market gardens or are self sufficient in growing their own food and they need seeds. Some seed save or grow perennials but we need annuals too for food production. Some are outside the intensive agriculture/supermarket system and rely on seeds to feed themselves.
You can buy a lot online of course but not everything, and they also need tools to work with.

We wouldn't consider closing supermarkets because that's our food supply, and so garden centres are for these people. The only difference is they grow the food themselves. Access to seeds is a basic human right.

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ah yes the EU reaction.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/10/europe/eu-bungled-coronavirus-response-analysis-intl/index.html

Right, there are articles claiming the opposite...you still didn't explain the "lose people" part.

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

Right, there are articles claiming the opposite...you still didn't explain the "lose people part".

I have no intention of explaining something so obvious. Maybe employ some thinking on your own behalf prehaps.
Feel free to counter the link I provided with some contradictory articles if you wish.

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I have no intention of explaining something so obvious. Maybe employ some thinking on your own behalf prehaps.

Mad that someone so clever can't explain his own words...unlike you I don't like interpreting what others say but rather engage and discuss which is clearly not your forte.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Feel free to counter the link I provided with some contradictory articles if you wish.

Feel free to do your own research on the topic and document yourself.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

But you wouldn’t have as many dead people if you revived the economy while keeping elderly and vulnerable people cocooned (and maintaining some element of social distancing and avoiding opening mass gathering places such as pubs). The ICU cases should then be within the capacity to deal

It isn’t one or the other. It’s the middle ground that our leases will attempt to start to find come May

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But you wouldn’t have as many dead people if you revived the economy while keeping elderly and vulnerable people cocooned (and maintaining some element of social distancing and avoiding opening mass gathering places such as pubs). The ICU cases should then be within the capacity to deal

It isn’t one or the other. It’s the middle ground that our leases will attempt to start to find come May

It’s impossible to do cocooning for 12-18 months. Lots of elderly people live with younger family members, have carers coming in and out, have doctors appointments they need to go to, dentists appointments. You can’t put a stop to all that for a year and a half because you’re not able to put up with these restrictions for another three weeks.

And that’s before you consider them being allowed any kind of social or family life.

BruteStock

The rescission we will experience won't be caused by private sector debt , lack of spending and investments , loans , bank bail-outs etc.

I expect the fallout will be handled completely differently. At the end of the day money is not a natural resource.

Discodog

KiKi III wrote: »

Everything I’ve heard so far suggests governments are planning to go down the route of printing money/ spending our way out of this one as opposed to austerity.

Borrowed money still has to be paid back. We aren't being given money. Every €350 paid out will have to be paid back, one way or another.

lord quackinton

alwald wrote: »

You should seriously document yourself on this virus to answer your own questions.
Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please? They can also be selfish and give up their duties altogether.

They are free to give up their duties, they can join their Taoiseach Leo Varadkar

BoatMad

Discodog wrote: »

Borrowed money still has to be paid back. We aren't being given money. Every €350 paid out will have to be paid back, one way or another.

Not really , it’s a fiat currency , you realise we , the Eurozone , just make it out of nothing, yiu can print as much as you like once inflation remains under control