Relaxation of restrictions

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

It’s impossible to do cocooning for 12-18 months. Lots of elderly people live with younger family members, have carers coming in and out, have doctors appointments they need to go to, dentists appointments. You can’t put a stop to all that for a year and a half because you’re not able to put up with these restrictions for another three weeks.

And that’s before you consider them being allowed any kind of social or family life.

Who said I didnt want the restrictions for another 3 weeks? I’m talking longer term. Summer, autumn. The virus will still be here so those more vulnerable will still have to be protected while economic activity resumes

Discodog

Greentopia wrote: »

i'm a P/T gardener and would love to get back. There's no reason I couldn't work the same as before because obviously I work outdoors and I can easily socially distance from anyone else. But I know the owners will err on the side of caution and say no for insurance/health and safety reasons and stay closed. There should be clear and consistent advice on this, it's frustrating.

I also think there's a case for letting garden centres stay open. I have friends who have market gardens or are self sufficient in growing their own food and they need seeds. Some seed save or grow perennials but we need annuals too for food production. Some are outside the intensive agriculture/supermarket system and rely on seeds to feed themselves.
You can buy a lot online of course but not everything, and they also need tools to work with.

We wouldn't consider closing supermarkets because that's our food supply, and so garden centres are for these people. The only difference is they grow the food themselves. Access to seeds is a basic human right.

It's totally messed up. Botanic gardens are exempt - depends on your definition So are services for the elderly - a lot of whom cherish their gardens.

Many people have a gardener because they can't do the work themselves. They will end up with a messy garden & a big bill to put it right, plus the dispiriting sight of expensive plants dying.

People are obsessed, including the Guards, with people in cars. The is zero risk to anyone if a gardener drives to a customer & works in their garden. Cue the usual what about an accident crowd.

BoatMad

Discodog wrote: »

It's totally messed up. Botanic gardens are exempt - depends on your definition So are services for the elderly - a lot of whom cherish their gardens.

Many people have a gardener because they can't do the work themselves. They will end up with a messy garden & a big bill to put it right, plus the dispiriting sight of expensive plants dying.

People are obsessed, including the Guards, with people in cars. The is zero risk to anyone if a gardener drives to a customer & works in their garden. Cue the usual what about an accident crowd.

I think it was a big mistake to close garden centres and Diy , people need stuff to do at home

FloatingVoter

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Just deleted 64 post of drunken drivel, and responses.

I think we should set that to music.....first proper laugh I've had in days.

citysights

BoatMad wrote: »

I think it was a big mistake to close garden centres and Diy , people need stuff to do at home

In that situation can they even deliver now? One of our local ones was open up to yesterday I think but now closed. I think it was a mistake also, with the lovely weather people can plant and get outdoors, and forget about what’s going on for a while. I planned on getting straw berry canes but will see if there are any delivery services now,

BoatMad

citysights wrote: »

In that situation can they even deliver now? One of our local ones was open up to yesterday I think but now closed. I think it was a mistake also, with the lovely weather people can plant and get outdoors, and forget about what’s going on for a while. I planned on getting straw berry canes but will see if there are any delivery services now,

Some Diy stores are doing delivery , but most are overwhelmed , many are closed , this must be ruinous for garden centres , all that stock , paid for sitting there dying etc

citysights

BoatMad wrote: »

Some Diy stores are doing delivery , but most are overwhelmed , many are closed , this must be ruinous for garden centres , all that stock , paid for sitting there dying etc

I actually saw on tv a few days ago, huge amounts of flowers being dumped in Holland. Such a waste and yes when you think of all the plants etc sitting there in garden Centres etc

FixdePitchmark

Discodog wrote: »

Borrowed money still has to be paid back. We aren't being given money. Every €350 paid out will have to be paid back, one way or another.

Not if the EU just print it.

Might sound, crazy. But quantitative easing .

Blueshoe

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Not if the EU just print it.

Might sound, crazy. But quantitative easing .

Hong Kong went for the helicopter money route. They are tipping along nicely

VinLieger

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Not if the EU just print it.

Might sound, crazy. But quantitative easing .

Qe wont work it has to be helicopter money

iamwhoiam

BoatMad wrote: »

Some Diy stores are doing delivery , but most are overwhelmed , many are closed , this must be ruinous for garden centres , all that stock , paid for sitting there dying etc

I am surprised that some garden centres are not doing phone and collect in the car park . They surely could sell stock in this way ?

BoatMad

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am surprised that some garden centres are not doing phone and collect in the car park . They surely could sell stock in this way ?

It that allowed , I don’t think it is. And unless within 2Km , it’s effectively illegal

BoatMad

VinLieger wrote: »

Qe wont work it has to be helicopter money

I think we will see helicopter money

iamwhoiam

BoatMad wrote: »

It that allowed , I don’t think it is. And unless within 2Km , it’s effectively illegal

Restaurants etc are doing it already

FloatingVoter

BoatMad wrote: »

I think we will see helicopter money

Nobody is going to propose raising taxes exponentially to support a nation of back garden dwellers. Universal Basic Income will arrive eventually but not in the mouth of a crisis. It'll be reduced dole, paycuts and serious questions asked about the reasons poeple are not contributing.

Utopia is out there but not tomorrow or anytime soon. As for the global economy, the hedge funds have already made billions gambling on this thing so they'll be fine. Us peasants will carry the weight.

BoatMad

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Nobody is going to propose raising taxes exponentially to support a nation of back garden dwellers. Universal Basic Income will arrive eventually but not in the mouth of a crisis. It'll be reduced dole, paycuts and serious questions asked about the reasons poeple are not contributing.

Utopia is out there but not tomorrow or anytime soon. As for the global economy, the hedge funds have already made billions gambling on this thing so they'll be fine. Us peasants will carry the weight.

The EU can and will print money for nothing as long as there are no inflationary pressures ( that’s ultimately what gov bonds are ) , it will most likely bod QE for “ peasants “ ie helicopter money to encourage spending

Unless we need to pay for the underlying paper, a fiat currency has no value except that ascribed to it , yiu can make as much as the trust in it allows

Idbatterim

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Nobody is going to propose raising taxes exponentially to support a nation of back garden dwellers. Universal Basic Income will arrive eventually but not in the mouth of a crisis. It'll be reduced dole, paycuts and serious questions asked about the reasons poeple are not contributing.

Utopia is out there but not tomorrow or anytime soon. As for the global economy, the hedge funds have already made billions gambling on this thing so they'll be fine. Us peasants will carry the weight.

listen, once margaret cash etc on the 80k gross equivalent are all ok and looked after. screw the rest, sure thats been FFG policy here for decades!

Thespoofer

Blueshoe wrote: »

Hong Kong went for the helicopter money route. They are tipping along nicely

Was wondering about this type of situation, does the ordinary Joe/Mary soap see the benefits of this ( as in more money in their pocket?) or how does it work?

BoatMad

Thespoofer wrote: »

Was wondering about this type of situation, does the ordinary Joe/Mary soap see the benefits of this ( as in more money in their pocket?) or how does it work?

Yes the money is deposited into your bank , US doing the same, it’s a fiat currency , you just print it

FloatingVoter

BoatMad wrote: »

The EU can and will print money for nothing as long as there are no inflationary pressures ( that’s ultimately what gov bonds are ) , it will most likely bod QE for “ peasants “ ie helicopter money to encourage spending

Unless we need to pay for the underlying paper, a fiat currency has no value except that ascribed to it , yiu can make as much as the trust in it allows

Once you enjoy paying €5000 for a loaf of bread (to pay for the flour and the baker who made it). Monopoly money. Or a return to the barter system- which given most of us have no tradeable skills leaves us ****ed.


Germany wound up in that position in the 1920s and it didn't end well. We are looking at another Great Depression but hopefully we've learnt from the last. Right now, the healthcare professionals are our deserved priority. When this passes, it will be the economists to dream it up again (and hopefully in an equitable way).

BoatMad

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Once you enjoy paying €5000 for a loaf of bread (to pay for the flour and the baker who made it). Monopoly money. Or a return to the barter system- which given most of us have no tradeable skills leaves us ****ed.


Germany wound up in that position in the 1920s and it didn't end well. We are looking at another Great Depression but hopefully we've learnt from the last. Right now, the healthcare professionals are our deserved priority. When this passes, it will be the economists to dream it up again (and hopefully in an equitable way).

That only happens if you carry it too far , ie you let inflation get out of control , but currently deflation is the risk not inflation , moderate inflation is better


It can be done in a controlled way

Ultimately we must have a functioning economy , irrespective of the overall health situation , otherwis the cure will be worse then the disease

Thelonious Monk

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes the money is deposited into your bank , US doing the same, it’s a fiat currency , you just print it

The US are giving a few dollars to everyone I think, it's pathetic

UK: 80% of workers' salaries

Denmark: 75% of workers' salaries

S Korea: 70% of workers' salaries

Netherlands: 90% of workers' salaries

Canada: $2k per month

Australia: $1k per month

US: One time $1200 check that may take months to arrive

BoatMad

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The US are giving a few dollars to everyone I think, it's pathetic

UK: 80% of workers' salaries

Denmark: 75% of workers' salaries

S Korea: 70% of workers' salaries

Netherlands: 90% of workers' salaries

Canada: $2k per month

Australia: $1k per month

US: One time $1200 check that may take months to arrive

I wasn’t drawing attention to that overall fact , merely that the US is depositing money in all citizens bank account , that payment isn’t related to unemployment assistance ( which is terrible in the US)

Thelonious Monk

BoatMad wrote: »

I wasn’t drawing attention to that overall fact , merely that the US is depositing money in all citizens bank account , that payment isn’t related to unemployment assistance ( which is terrible in the US)

I am just highlighting how little they're doing to help citizens compared to other countries

FloatingVoter

BoatMad wrote: »

I wasn’t drawing attention to that overall fact , merely that the US is depositing money in all citizens bank account , that payment isn’t related to unemployment assistance ( which is terrible in the US)

Yes - the US is screwing this up bigtime which will impact on us. I have a friend in Austin - a now out of business hairdresser. The $1200 (if / when she gets it) will be sucked up by the last two months rent.

She at least just needs a chair and a pair of scissors to get back in business. People are getting royally ****ed over stateside.

BoatMad

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Yes - the US is screwing this up bigtime which will impact on us. I have a friend in Austin - a now out of business hairdresser. The $1200 (if / when she gets it) will be sucked up by the last two months rent.

She at least just needs a chair and a pair of scissors to get back in business. People are getting royally ****ed over stateside.

Agreed , the fallout in the US will be dramatic and extreme in my view

Cork Boy 53

BoatMad wrote: »

Agreed , the fallout in the US will be dramatic and extreme in my view

And despite all this a large proportion of the electorate will still vote for Trump.

BoatMad

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And despite all this a large proportion of the electorate will still vote for Trump.

The virus may get enough , Darwinism at play

Sorry that’s a bit cold hearted but it will hit the “ deny-er “ states the hardest

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

It’s impossible to do cocooning for 12-18 months. Lots of elderly people live with younger family members, have carers coming in and out, have doctors appointments they need to go to, dentists appointments. You can’t put a stop to all that for a year and a half because you’re not able to put up with these restrictions for another three weeks.

And that’s before you consider them being allowed any kind of social or family life.

But we're not talking about another 3 weeks. What happens after that?

The alternative to vulnerable people cocooning is EVERYONE having to stay at home. How is that any better?

It is doable for someone high risk to cocoon pretty well for 12-18 months. Doctors and dentists can do home visits with appropriate PPE, carers can wear appropriate PPE, perhaps when antibody tests come in, those who have had and recovered from covid can be cleared to work with high risk patients.

There is literally no other way to do things.

Discodog

BoatMad wrote: »

It that allowed , I don’t think it is. And unless within 2Km , it’s effectively illegal

Well apparently allowed but not "recommended". My local Farm shop sells hardware & had to close that section & only sell animal feed. But I know another shop that's kept everything open.

In contrast my friend in Finland is out buying furniture today.