Relaxation of restrictions

BanditLuke

It's all well and good slagging off Trump and Americans and yes they deserve it but given the numbers of people I'm seeing out and about today on social media in parks, at beaches, along coastlines we are properly fcuked here also. We are going to also have a massive surge in a few weeks time that's going to cost us big time.

ceadaoin.

BoatMad wrote: »

Agreed , the fallout in the US will be dramatic and extreme in my view

Thats why things have to get back up and running ASAP, otherwise it will be worse than the virus.. My husband has already taken a 50% pay cut. At least he still has a job for now and we are ok financially. Many arent.

I know people who emigrated here this year and so aren't entitled to any of the payments, or even unemployment . If things don't reopen soon, they are screwed and their "new life" in America will be in tatters. Its nothing to gloat about

castletownman

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's all well and good slagging off Trump and Americans and yes they deserve it but given the numbers of people I'm seeing out and about today on social media in parks, at beaches, along coastlines we are properly fcuked here also. We are going to also have a massive surge in a few weeks time that's going to cost us big time.

Unless every single person you seen pictured on social media, by someone with clearly nothing better to do than twitch curtains, stopped and talked face-to-face with everyone they encounter, for the required time it is said for the virus to spread, then I think you are being slightly over-dramatic.

stephenjmcd

Small paragraph in the Irish times relating to Spain

Spain's government set out guidelines today for people returning to work under a loosening of lockdown restrictions, while the country reported its lowest one-day increase in deaths from the coronavirus since March 23rd.
Most Spaniards have been confined to their homes since mid-March with only businesses in sectors deemed strategically important allowed to operate normally.
However, from Monday, some other industries such as construction and manufacturing will be allowed to restart, enabling thousands to return to work.

lord quackinton

There are plenty of anti American and anti trump threads on here
Can we keep this thread to discuss our country and our leaders

Also while I believe we should lift all restrictions today, there are posters here who want restrictions kept here but hope also that many Americans die so hopefully trump will get the boot
That’s completely sick and should not mentioned here again

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But we're not talking about another 3 weeks. What happens after that?

The alternative to vulnerable people cocooning is EVERYONE having to stay at home. How is that any better?

It is doable for someone high risk to cocoon pretty well for 12-18 months. Doctors and dentists can do home visits with appropriate PPE, carers can wear appropriate PPE, perhaps when antibody tests come in, those who have had and recovered from covid can be cleared to work with high risk patients.

There is literally no other way to do things.

So you can’t do it for another few weeks but anyone that’s not you should be able to do 18 months?

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

So you can’t do it for another few weeks but anyone that’s not you should be able to do 18 months?

It's not about me! Why do you just not get this? I've already said another few weeks is fine, but what about after that, and you keep going on like a broken record and ignoring the question.

The economy cannot take everyone sitting at home for 18 months. People need to be working and paying into the healthcare system and keeping things running, or the entire country will just collapse. The people who CAN work will be helping to pay for support and healthcare for the people who can't. It's not as if risking getting covid-19 every single time you leave the house is exactly utopia, is it? Everyone will have a sh1tty time for the next year or two, but what are you proposing? Everyone has to stay inside for 18 months so it's 'fair'?

Do you think there's a magic money tree somewhere?

Nermal

KiKi III wrote: »

So you can’t do it for another few weeks but anyone that’s not you should be able to do 18 months?

They wouldn’t have to. Herd immunity.

Plumbthedepths

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's all well and good slagging off Trump and Americans and yes they deserve it but given the numbers of people I'm seeing out and about today on social media in parks, at beaches, along coastlines we are properly fcuked here also. We are going to also have a massive surge in a few weeks time that's going to cost us big time.

Are they all hugging and shaking hands?
I was in my local town today lots of people around all staying away from each other except families. Good hygiene and don't cough on others , no problems.

Plumbthedepths

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Small paragraph in the Irish times relating to Spain

Spain's government set out guidelines today for people returning to work under a loosening of lockdown restrictions, while the country reported its lowest one-day increase in deaths from the coronavirus since March 23rd.
Most Spaniards have been confined to their homes since mid-March with only businesses in sectors deemed strategically important allowed to operate normally.
However, from Monday, some other industries such as construction and manufacturing will be allowed to restart, enabling thousands to return to work.

Good to see some sense returning.

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's not about me! Why do you just not get this? I've already said another few weeks is fine, but what about after that, and you keep going on like a broken record and ignoring the question.

The economy cannot take everyone sitting at home for 18 months. People need to be working and paying into the healthcare system and keeping things running, or the entire country will just collapse. The people who CAN work will be helping to pay for support and healthcare for the people who can't. It's not as if risking getting covid-19 every single time you leave the house is exactly utopia, is it? Everyone will have a sh1tty time for the next year or two, but what are you proposing? Everyone has to stay inside for 18 months so it's 'fair'?

Do you think there's a magic money tree somewhere?

I haven’t proposed that at all. That’s just you randomly putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say at all.

I’m merely expressing surprise that you’re happy to cocoon a large segment of the population for 18 months given that you’ve posted *at length* about how difficult that is for people with mental health issues.

What about older people with mental health issues? What about the mental health of young people with underlying health problems?

You keep saying it’s not about you but it doesn’t come across like you care about the mental health of any group outside the one you happen to fall into.

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

I haven’t proposed that at all. That’s just you randomly putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say at all.

I’m merely expressing surprise that you’re happy to cocoon a large segment of the population for 18 months given that you’ve posted *at length* about how difficult that is for people with mental health issues.

What about older people with mental health issues? What about the mental health of young people with underlying health problems?

You keep saying it’s not about you but it doesn’t come across like you care about the mental health of any group outside the one you happen to fall into.

But what's the alternative to that?! It's either cocoon the people at most risk until it's safe enough for them to rejoin society, or make everyone stay at home for that length of time. It's not about whether it's 'fair' or not, it's about trying to keep as many people alive as possible while also keeping the country running as best as possible.

How else do you think it's going to work? There's absolutely no logic behind anything you say, honestly.

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But what's the alternative to that?! It's either cocoon the people at most risk until it's safe enough for them to rejoin society, or make everyone stay at home for that length of time. It's not about whether it's 'fair' or not, it's about trying to keep as many people alive as possible while also keeping the country running as best as possible.

How else do you think it's going to work? There's absolutely no logic behind anything you say, honestly.

I haven’t proposed anything in my last couple of posts, all I’ve done is express surprise that you’re willing to put 25%+ of the population through cocooning for 18 months considering you’ve described it as not living at all.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in condemning huge numbers of people to a fate you couldn’t stand yourself? It’s a real lack of empathy on display.

“I can’t stand this for three more weeks, but Mary down the road with cancer and John who’s 72 should do it for a year and a half.”

As for your usual dramatic statements like “There are literally no other options”, well, we’re seeing New Zealand, South Korea, Sweden, Spain, the US etc are all taking different approaches so the idea that there’s only one option we have to take is clearly ridic.

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But what's the alternative to that?! It's either cocoon the people at most risk until it's safe enough for them to rejoin society, or make everyone stay at home for that length of time. It's not about whether it's 'fair' or not, it's about trying to keep as many people alive as possible while also keeping the country running as best as possible.

How else do you think it's going to work? There's absolutely no logic behind anything you say, honestly.

Can you just clarify what your position is on the mental health of older people?

Because you’ve been such a passionate advocate for your own right to protect your mental health that I would have expected you to be able to extend some compassion to people in different age groups who are fighting the same battles?

Discodog

Greentopia wrote: »

i'm a P/T gardener and would love to get back. There's no reason I couldn't work the same as before because obviously I work outdoors and I can easily socially distance from anyone else. But I know the owners will err on the side of caution and say no for insurance/health and safety reasons and stay closed. There should be clear and consistent advice on this, it's frustrating.

I also think there's a case for letting garden centres stay open. I have friends who have market gardens or are self sufficient in growing their own food and they need seeds. Some seed save or grow perennials but we need annuals too for food production. Some are outside the intensive agriculture/supermarket system and rely on seeds to feed themselves.
You can buy a lot online of course but not everything, and they also need tools to work with.

We wouldn't consider closing supermarkets because that's our food supply, and so garden centres are for these people. The only difference is they grow the food themselves. Access to seeds is a basic human right.

Just an update on this. I decided to read this:

https://assets.gov.ie/72646/60db1b5e7e5e414a9c92dd04da0a67c4.pdf

I am not a lawyer but Schedule 2 Essential Services lists Horticulture.

Agriculture, horticulture, forestry, fishing, animal welfare and related services 1. The following services relating to agriculture, horticulture, forestry, fishing, animal welfare and related services: (a) farming; (b) farm labour; (c) farm relief services; (d) crop and animal production; (e) fishing for commercial purposes; (f) aquaculture and fish farming; (g) horticulture; (h) forestry; (i) veterinary, animal welfare and related services; (j) the provision of support services relating to any of the services specified in subparagraphs (a) to (i) (including artificial insemination and animal disposal).

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

I haven’t proposed anything in my last couple of posts, all I’ve done is express surprise that you’re willing to put 25%+ of the population through cocooning for 18 months considering you’ve described it as not living at all.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in condemning huge numbers of people to a fate you couldn’t stand yourself? It’s a real lack of empathy on display.

“I can’t stand this for three more weeks, but Mary down the road with cancer and John who’s 72 should do it for a year and a half.”

As for your usual dramatic statements like “There are literally no other options”, well, we’re seeing New Zealand, South Korea, Sweden, Spain, the US etc are all taking different approaches so the idea that there’s only one option we have to take is clearly ridic.

No. This is ridiculous, emotional rubbish and totally devoid of logic.

Your solution to some people being terribly depressed and lonely is for everyone to be terribly depressed and lonely and the economy to absolutely tank?

Cool. Great plan.

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

Can you just clarify what your position is on the mental health of older people?

Because you’ve been such a passionate advocate for your own right to protect your mental health that I would have expected you to be able to extend some compassion to people in different age groups who are fighting the same battles?

But what's your solution? Just because people who are high risk are going to find this horrible, everyone else should have to suffer with them? It's completely inane, sorry.

At the end of the day, nobody can really be forced to stay in. If Mary, 84 with emphysema decides to take her chances with covid rather than stay inside for a year, then grand. Perhaps people should be allowed to decide for themselves, with those who opt to be cocooned being able to avail of medical care at home where possible.

Literally none of the countries you quoted has any other approach in the long term other than the majority of the population getting back to work and into society.

Ace2007

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's not about me! Why do you just not get this? I've already said another few weeks is fine, but what about after that, and you keep going on like a broken record and ignoring the question.

The economy cannot take everyone sitting at home for 18 months. People need to be working and paying into the healthcare system and keeping things running, or the entire country will just collapse. The people who CAN work will be helping to pay for support and healthcare for the people who can't. It's not as if risking getting covid-19 every single time you leave the house is exactly utopia, is it? Everyone will have a sh1tty time for the next year or two, but what are you proposing? Everyone has to stay inside for 18 months so it's 'fair'?

Do you think there's a magic money tree somewhere?

Not everyone is sitting at home at the moment though - it's estimated by end of Summer, unemployment figures will be at 25% - meaning 75% of the country are still working in some format.

Not only that if you are sitting at home - there are companies - Tesco, Lidi, Amazon, and nursing homes to name a few that are recruiting people on full time roles.

It's not going to be an easy ride but this idea that you have that everyone is just sitting at home not working is just in your head. Some business owners are even thinking outside the box - how can we keep the business going and people employed - I saw recently an article about a pub on Dublin northside that is open for delivery service.

Phoebas

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But what's your solution? Just because people who are high risk are going to find this horrible, everyone else should have to suffer with them?

It's called society.

Blueshoe

Thespoofer wrote: »

Was wondering about this type of situation, does the ordinary Joe/Mary soap see the benefits of this ( as in more money in their pocket?) or how does it work?

Say the government decide to give everyone 1000 euro in the morning. Straight into the bank. Go spend it how you wish. You go out and buy groceries, a coffee, new shoes etc.
It's putting circulating money into the economy which allows businesses to retain staff, production continues and the economy gets moving. The government recoups some of the money through vat, employee taxes and business costs.

It's to keep the economy moving basically. People shouldn't save the money in the bank. Just spend it.

That's my take any way. Maybe I interpreted it wrong

Idbatterim

Phoebas wrote: »

It's called society.

Suffer with them destroying economy , leading to welfare cuts for pensioners and possibly emigration of their kids and / or grand kids ... great outcome !

lord quackinton

Phoebas wrote: »

It's called society.

To quote the great lady

“They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."

TheCitizen

The panic merchants on here must be proud of themselves, they're talking the same crap as the ultimate gobshíte Trump.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1248701417260568576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1248701417260568576&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huddleboard.net%2Fhb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1438928

CtevenSrowder

KiKi III wrote: »

I haven’t proposed anything in my last couple of posts, all I’ve done is express surprise that you’re willing to put 25%+ of the population through cocooning for 18 months considering you’ve described it as not living at all.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in condemning huge numbers of people to a fate you couldn’t stand yourself? It’s a real lack of empathy on display.

“I can’t stand this for three more weeks, but Mary down the road with cancer and John who’s 72 should do it for a year and a half.”

As for your usual dramatic statements like “There are literally no other options”, well, we’re seeing New Zealand, South Korea, Sweden, Spain, the US etc are all taking different approaches so the idea that there’s only one option we have to take is clearly ridic.

If its a case of cocooning 25% of the population versus a multiple of that, then only cocooning 25% is not hypocritical or lacking in empathy. Trying to suggest it is is disingenuous. It is in fact the opposite.

Cork Boy 53

Idbatterim wrote: »

Suffer with then destroy economy , leading to weidate cuts for pensioners and possibly emigration of their kids and / or grand kids ... great outcome !

Emigrate to where exactly? Unlike past economic recessions over the last 90 years this time the whole world is in the same leaking boat.

Logan Roy

Lads its such a nice day outside, why are ye on here arguing?

CtevenSrowder

TheCitizen wrote: »

The panic merchants on here must be proud of themselves, they're talking the same crap as the ultimate gobshíte Trump.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1248701417260568576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1248701417260568576&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huddleboard.net%2Fhb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1438928

Still obsessed with Trump I see. You should move over after this and just give in to your obsession.

CtevenSrowder

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Emigrate to where exactly? Unlike past economic recessions over the last 90 years this time the whole world is in the same leaking boat.

Somewhere that hasn't taken the 'if you think of the economy your a big selfish prick approach' and actually taken it into consideration.

TheCitizen

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Still obsessed with Trump I see. You should move over after this and just give in to your obsession.

Obsessed with Trump? bloody nonsense. He happens to be the President of perhaps the biggest most powerful country in the world, are we supposed to ignore him just so the likes of you can't throw out that "you're obsessed" nonsense?

There is no need to sensationalise this issue.

We concentrate on the immediate medical emergency and when the situation is under the control of the health service and our health service won't suffer a meltdown, you then make a call on restarting the economy and getting people's lives back on track.

Trump will sensationalise it, that's the way he operates and it's the sort of unnecessarily aggressive and panic stricken bollocksology that some posters on this thread are coming out with. Well done, ye sound like a bunch of Trump fanboys.

gmisk

People in Ireland still taking the p#ss with journeys.
Some guy caught going from Tipperary to limerick to buy a ....trampoline...