Relaxation of restrictions

standardg60

suicide_circus wrote: »

yeah but i thought i'd sum it up with a clever reworking of the Churchill speech

Considering yourself clever is never a good idea and best left to others to decide.
Are you referring to the Government or NPHET or just those who are dying?

Nermal

https://www.chrispaley.org/post/risk-vs-pleasure-in-a-pandemic

"It seems that society is willing to bear a far higher cost to save lives from Covid-19 than to save them from other diseases."

I don't agree with his conclusion, but his premise and calculations are accurate.

Media sensationalism/misuse of statistics has a lot to answer for.

suicide_circus

standardg60 wrote: »

Considering yourself clever is never a good idea and best left to others to decide.
Are you referring to the Government or NPHET or just those who are dying?

it's poetic license, lighten up.

and my mother says i'm very clever.

MOH

KiKi III wrote: »

This thread is basically divided between people who want to tell health professionals what to do and people who want to be told what to do by the health professionals.

And no, that doesn't mean we don't care about the economy. You can care about two things and have a primary focus on the one that is most immediately being damaged.

Says the person who has complete faith in the advice of health professionals when it comes to maintaining a lockdown, but keeps whinging about off licences being open despite those same health professionals being involved in that decision.

So presumably, by your own criteria of judgement, you fall into the category of people who want to tell health professionals what to do?

lord quackinton

citysights wrote: »

It is really bad news and people are already very worried, as you say who is going to pay for all this, mean while able bodied people who want to work sit at home twiddling their thumbs.

Did you know AIB bank where possible has stopped the drawdown on mortgages Citing the fact the land registry office is closed
Other banks will follow suit

This is done strategically as the banks know the housing market is about to collapse and the banks will be in a position where house values could be lower then the mortgage value.
The banks will be spend the next few weeks reneging on all new loan and mortgage offers
They will also be busy drawing up plans on how to get more bail outs from the state
This is dangerous times we are in and the government shutting everything down while not being honest with the public, for me is akin to treason

KiKi III

MOH wrote: »

Says the person who has complete faith in the advice of health professionals when it comes to maintaining a lockdown, but keeps whinging about off licences being open despite those same health professionals being involved in that decision.

So presumably, by your own criteria of judgement, you fall into the category of people who want to tell health professionals what to do?

I still love how no one cares that I also said we should shut newsagents. No big, emotional reaction to that one though, was there?

I have opinions that run counter to things the government has decided because I'm a human and not a robot but overall I'm happy to defer to their decision making, even on the off license thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

I've said repeatedly on this thread that as I'm not a doctor, an edidemiologist or an economist, I'm not going to pretend I know more than people who have been working in these fields their whole lives.

We can all have our own opinions, but overall I think it's important to respect the experts.

ZX7R

Poland plans to open it's borders on the 5th of May.

JL555

lord quackinton wrote: »

Did you know AIB bank where possible has stopped the drawdown on mortgages Citing the fact the land registry office is closed
Other banks will follow suit

This is done strategically as the banks know the housing market is about to collapse and the banks will be in a position where house values could be lower then the mortgage value.
The banks will be spend the next few weeks reneging on all new loan and mortgage offers
They will also be busy drawing up plans on how to get more bail outs from the state
This is dangerous times we are in and the government shutting everything down while not being honest with the public, for me is akin to treason

The law society of Ireland has been lobbying the government about the closure of the Property Registration Authority (amongst other things) due to the exact thing you're talking about. And I'm sure the banks are lobbying on the other side to keep these agencies closed.

MOH

KiKi III wrote: »

I've said repeatedly on this thread that as I'm not a doctor, an edidemiologist or an economist, I'm not going to pretend I know more than people who have been working in these fields their whole lives.

We can all have our own opinions, but overall I think it's important to respect the experts.

And yet you've spent dozens of posts insisting that off licences should be closed. And newsagents, which I'd missed. While claiming to respect the people behind the decisions that they remain open. So basically, you're either trolling or a hypocrite.

Thelonious Monk

JL555 wrote: »

The law society of Ireland has been lobbying the government about the closure of the Property Registration Authority (amongst other things) due to the exact thing you're talking about. And I'm sure the banks are lobbying on the other side to keep these agencies closed.

I wonder why the PRAI are closed, I would have thought they'd have provisions for working from home and the printers for folios etc could have some people in the offices. As far as I know most civil service departments are still functioning somewhat.

standardg60

suicide_circus wrote: »

it's poetic license, lighten up.

and my mother says i'm very clever.

Ok :-).

I thought you were trying to politicise it. There's already enough of that.

Penfailed

lord quackinton wrote: »

This is dangerous times we are in and the government shutting everything down while not being honest with the public, for me is akin to treason

Could you be any more dramatic?!

How are the government not being honest with the public?

KiKi III

MOH wrote: »

And yet you've spent dozens of posts insisting that off licences should be closed. And newsagents, which I'd missed. While claiming to respect the people behind the decisions that they remain open. So basically, you're either trolling or a hypocrite.

I just explained this: I have my own opinions, but unlike a lot of posters here I don't think my personal opinion is more valid and relevant than the experts.

citysights

lord quackinton wrote: »

Did you know AIB bank where possible has stopped the drawdown on mortgages Citing the fact the land registry office is closed
Other banks will follow suit

This is done strategically as the banks know the housing market is about to collapse and the banks will be in a position where house values could be lower then the mortgage value.
The banks will be spend the next few weeks reneging on all new loan and mortgage offers
They will also be busy drawing up plans on how to get more bail outs from the state
This is dangerous times we are in and the government shutting everything down while not being honest with the public, for me is akin to treason

No I did not know that, the more one knows the worse it gets. What’s so saddening is that we were doing so well, the mantra of keeping the recovery going and it was slow in rural areas after the last crash but still it was happening, people getting back on their feet and now this..

FloatingVoter

Ace2007 wrote: »

There are real people dying, but that doesn't stop posters saying forget about that lets just the economy back on it's feet.

What is your solution for the LC? The is a pandemic that no country in the world is on top of - yet you call in shameful - give me a solution for the LC that every student will be happy with

Continuous assessment. Everybody at least passes the useless exam. Interviews / matriculation exams for the colleges.
Worst comes to worst they can have a gap year while the system sorts itself out. Given that most graduates have degrees in something they don't know why they chose in the first place it might produce a more talented generation. Less event managers and systems analysts. Less people allergic to cats and dogs training to be vets because the points are massive.

Off-topic, but one idiot I grew up with trained to be a marine biologist - he couldn't swim and was afraid of water. Last time we met, he was a hell of a barman.
The Leaving Cert is only important to those it's inflicted upon.

lord quackinton

Penfailed wrote: »

Could you be any more dramatic?!

How are the government not being honest with the public?

Well if you linked my whole post, that is just one major issue not being discussed

The government are not informing the public of what awaits then economically if we stay closed
If they were straight up the public would say open it up we will take our chances

MOH

gmisk wrote: »

People in Ireland still taking the p#ss with journeys.
Some guy caught going from Tipperary to limerick to buy a ....trampoline...

There's two eejit couples from Cork sitting in the common area of my apartment complex drinking mojitos all afternoon. Discussing what they'd go back to the girls' house (which is about 3k away - from the loud conversation it sounded like only one, maybe two of them actually lives here). And what time flatmates were arranging the later plans for. While whinging about the lockdown. And how onerous it is that they can't visit home (but the guards aren't there all the time and you might be lucky) and when it might end.

And thanks to muppets like that lockdown will continue it'll be at least two months since I've seen a single face I know by the time restrictions are eased.

This country is largely populated by utter idiots. They generally fall into two categories. The kind who'll drive to Limerick to buy a trampoline. And the kind who'll follow the rules and basic common sense. I'm sick of being an idiot for other people's benefit

JL555

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I wonder why the PRAI are closed, I would have thought they'd have provisions for working from home and the printers for folios etc could have some people in the offices. As far as I know most civil service departments are still functioning somewhat.

It's a very good question, why are they closed?, however our solicitor confirmed this with us this week and the bank will not accept anything right now unless it was been through the PRAI. I'm really peed off as this is the last item we needed to complete the purchase of our house, which in all likelihood will not happen now. We have pretty much everything else signed, but I'm sure the bank can find a way to wriggle out of a signed contract, loads of people in this situation I'm sure. It's a complete balls!!!

Plumbthedepths

KiKi III wrote: »

I still love how no one cares that I also said we should shut newsagents. No big, emotional reaction to that one though, was there?

I have opinions that run counter to things the government has decided because I'm a human and not a robot but overall I'm happy to defer to their decision making, even on the off license thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

I've said repeatedly on this thread that as I'm not a doctor, an edidemiologist or an economist, I'm not going to pretend I know more than people who have been working in these fields their whole lives.

We can all have our own opinions, but overall I think it's important to respect the experts.

Why do you want everyone funnelled into Supermarkets, surely leaving small outlets open lessens large numbers at Supermarkets and lowering the interaction between people. Your wish to close almost every open retail outlet seems counter intuitive tbh.

alwald

lord quackinton wrote: »

Did you know AIB bank where possible has stopped the drawdown on mortgages Citing the fact the land registry office is closed
Other banks will follow suit

This is done strategically as the banks know the housing market is about to collapse and the banks will be in a position where house values could be lower then the mortgage value.
The banks will be spend the next few weeks reneging on all new loan and mortgage offers
They will also be busy drawing up plans on how to get more bail outs from the state
This is dangerous times we are in and the government shutting everything down while not being honest with the public, for me is akin to treason

Banks are part of the solution and aren't the issue at the moment. This is not the same as 2008/09.

road_high

citysights wrote: »

It is really bad news and people are already very worried, as you say who is going to pay for all this, mean while able bodied people who want to work sit at home twiddling their thumbs.

Pretty much- I know and I think we all do, couples living the dream and had been working hard and earning very good livings- one may be in Construction/trades, the other working as a Hairdresser/Beauty/leisure trade. Mansion of a home with a hefty mortgage, one or two new SUVs on the drive, kids in tow used to the very best of everything. Now they're both at home, if lucky getting the Covid welfare payment for now. Hoping and praying this nightmare might end soon. Yes, the banks may be fobbed off for a few months. Or rent on a premises put on a hold. But nearly two months into this total shutdown, how long will those kind of repayments stay on ice?
Another couple I know one had been front of house in Gym (god knows when they'll reopen?). Other works in the Golf industry ( a real pain on the arse that did think he was essential to the planet but that's another issue and wouldn't wish him to lose his job). They have a mortgage, fine house and cars and kids. These are the kind of real people caught in the fall out.
I'm lucky in the sector I work in is an essential component of the supply sector. But who's to say what the future could bring?

kravmaga

ZX7R wrote: »

Poland plans to open it's borders on the 5th of May.

Yes but Poland just like the Czech Republic locked down their respective borders faster than any other European country including ourselves

Ive been in both countries many times over the years and when they plan to do something they do it, unlike in Ireland , too much talk no action.

Both countries are well ahead of Ireland and have had a lower death rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_Czech_Republic

road_high

alwald wrote: »

Banks are part of the solution and aren't the issue at the moment. This is not the same as 2008/09.

The fundamental issues aren't the same but the result and fallout will quite possibly be.

KiKi III

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why do you want everyone funnelled into Supermarkets, surely leaving small outlets open lessens large numbers at Supermarkets and lowering the interaction between people. Your wish to close almost every open retail outlet seems counter intuitive tbh.

I'm categorically not having this conversation again today.

Scroll back about 50 pages on the thread, I said everything I have to say on the topic yesterday.

lord quackinton

citysights wrote: »

No I did not know that, the more one knows the worse it gets. What’s so saddening is that we were doing so well, the mantra of keeping the recovery going and it was slow in rural areas after the last crash but still it was happening, people getting back on their feet and now this..

I work in a position listed on the essential services , won’t say what it is, but I see what is happening and no one in government or the media is discussing it

Had a client last Wednesday have his mortgage pulled just as he was drawing down
The man was heartbroken, spoke to him by phone, he asked me straight out would he ever see the mortgage
I told him honestly but calmly the answer was no
This man had suffered and lost everything in 2008 including his marriage and had worked his way back the last 10 years to qualify for a modest mortgage
He broke down on the phone, being honest I nearly broke myself
This is a true story and due to this governments incompetence this same faith awaits thousands of other hopeful buyers

alwald

road_high wrote: »

The fundamental issues aren't the same but the result and fallout will quite possibly be.

I highly doubt that they will need a bailout...the airline industry in the other hand will need the intervention of the government/banks.

citysights

Ace2007 wrote: »

There are real people dying, but that doesn't stop posters saying forget about that lets just the economy back on it's feet.

What is your solution for the LC? The is a pandemic that no country in the world is on top of - yet you call in shameful - give me a solution for the LC that every student will be happy with

Student’s have been happy to sit their Leaving Cert. every year and abide by the rules. Not knowing where they are in all of this right now is obviously stressful for them, clarity would be good and will come soon for them hopefully.

Logan Roy

lord quackinton wrote: »

I work in a position listed on the essential services , won’t say what it is, but I see what is happening and no one in government or the media is discussing it

Had a client last Wednesday have his mortgage pulled just as he was drawing down
The man was heartbroken, spoke to him by phone, he asked me straight out would he ever see the mortgage
I told him honestly but calmly the answer was no
This man had suffered and lost everything in 2008 including his marriage and had worked his way back the last 10 years to qualify for a modest mortgage
He broke down on the phone, being honest I nearly broke myself
This is a true story and due to this governments incompetence this same faith awaits thousands of other hopeful buyers

Why did he have it pulled?

Penfailed

lord quackinton wrote: »

The government are not informing the public of what awaits then economically if we stay closed
If they were straight up the public would say open it up we will take our chances

Right back at the start of the lockdown, Varadkar's speech included a bit about how expensive it was going to be and that it would take a long time to put right again.
I think you are wrong. Some people, like yourself would say open it up and we'll take our chances, others like myself would say keep it as it is until the 5th of May and then have a phased relaxation of the measures.

FloatingVoter

citysights wrote: »

Student’s have been happy to sit their Leaving Cert. every year and abide by the rules. Not knowing where they are in all of this right now is obviously stressful for them, clarity would be good and will come soon for them hopefully.

It did yesterday. Aired on all TV channels and spread across all the mainstream press today.