Relaxation of restrictions

Jenbach110

KiKi III wrote: »

You've asked this question a couple of times and I'd be interested to hear your own answer to it.

I dont know, Im curious what peoples opininons are.

Take someone whos 85, life and the simple joys are suspended indefinitely, how long are they willing to continue as is?
As fit and healthy as an 85 year old is every month is precious, time is not in abundance at that age.

Im unsure how many 85 year old use boards.ie

alwald

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Someone is human, the tooth fairy aint.

Anyhow, it was a family member

People are free to accept taking the risk, what they aren't free to do is leave their home for an unnecessary journey or travel beyond 2 km from their home until the 5th of May at least. This is for the good of the nation as a whole to tackle COVID-19. The good of the nation comes first and not the selfish wish of an individual.

pgj2015

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You might want to stick with Donald Trump's daily briefings so...

things are actually going well here, why are they so negative about it? Trump is living in a dream world and I really wouldnt want him being my president but you could have someone who is somewhere in the middle.


I want a Taoiseach that gives hope, imagine what he would be like if we were in a situation like Italy were a couple of weeks ago.

Tenzor07

pgj2015 wrote: »

things are actually going well here, why are they so negative about it? Trump is living in a dream world and I really wouldnt want him being my president but you could have someone who is somewhere in the middle.
I want a Taoiseach that gives hope, imagine what he would be like if we were in a situation like Italy were a couple of weeks ago.

It's well know Varadkar has the personality of a plank, maybe Mick Wallace or one of the Heal-Rae's coud step in?

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Also in my area anyway a huge amount of retired nanas and grandads mind grandchildren after school . So the back to normal means lots of workers have no childcare . The school pick up and drop off are very often done by grandparents m
In my own family of 5 siblings four of us mind grandchildren or pick up from school for working parents

Yes. People who think the elderly are easily isolated while everyone else gets back to normal seem to live in some parallel reality. The elderly play a hugely significant and vital role in many families and communities. They are not easily removed from the equation! We would need to implement widespread alternative childcare arrangements and rehouse tens of thousands of people to make it work at the very least. If those with serious underlying illnesses are included (since more than just the very select group asked to cocoon would need protection if we were going to allow the virus spread more easily) then we would be looking at a massive hole in our society and workforce, and a massive task to keep them separate from everyone else.

OMM 0000

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I would much rather watch and listen to him than the orange buffoon across the Atlantic.

Why do you keep relating things to Trump and then complaining about him?

Are you OK?

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

Yes. People who think the elderly are easily isolated while everyone else gets back to normal seem to live in some parallel reality. The elderly play a hugely significant and vital role in many families and communities. They are not easily removed from the equation! We would need to implement widespread alternative childcare arrangements and rehouse tens of thousands of people to make it work at the very least. If those with serious underlying illnesses are included (since more than just the very select group asked to cocoon would need protection if we were going to allow the virus spread more easily) then we would be looking at a massive hole in our society and workforce, and a massive task to keep them separate from everyone else.

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

ZX7R

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It's well know Varadkar has the personality of a plank, maybe Mick Wallace or one of the Heal-Rae's coud step in?

To be fair leo would lean towards the medical side so he would be inclined to be more doom and gloom

r93kaey5p2izun

niallo27 wrote: »

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

And what is your solution for the issues raised about safely cocooning the elderly while everyone else has restrictions lifted? That's what you are suggesting, so how would you go about addressing problems of childcare and housing?

citysights

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You might want to stick with Donald Trump's daily briefings so...

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Trump seriously. Haven’t we enough to worry about, Trump is just like so many people’s deflection strategy.

martingriff

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Say I have a restaurant with 60 seats.

Social distancing of 1m min means I have to take 40 seats away. Everyone is fearful of crowds so few are bothering to venture out. How does this work exactly?

Then you can't open or start a takeout service or put every table in a glass box

User142

Cocooning of the elderly isn't going to end next month. The UKs cocooning is for at least 12 weeks. Our cocooning isn't going to be 5 weeks.

Tell me how

niallo27 wrote: »

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

We are still at the point where we are trying to figure out just what the scenario is before leaving it all to a single demographic to make sacrifices while others start returning to normal.

If, we get to a point where we have the ability to test rapidly (easy access, quick result) along with very dependable contact tracing and a healthcare system which can manage the Covid-19 patients which comes its way, we might be able to release a lot of the restrictions which are in place in relation to work environments.

If, as some suggest, that the true number for those needing hospitalisation (and therefore the mortality rate) is actually much less as a percentage of the total population than we think at this point in time, then that too might support reducing restrictions.

If, tests for antibodies can show those who are immune, resistant or post infection then that also might support reducing restrictions.

If a vaccine is developed, that would also (at a much slower rate than the above) help with removing restrictions.

But, for now, we have too many if's to reduce or remove restrictions but in 3 weeks, we will have more information to either support extended the lockdown, or starting to rollback.

Tell me how

citysights wrote: »

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Trump seriously. Haven’t we enough to worry about, Trump is just like so many people’s deflection strategy.

Because, the US is a world leader in influencing opinion and also because his behavior is of such a magnitude that it is literally history in the making and so is of interest to a great number of people.

JL555

User142 wrote: »

Cocooning of the elderly isn't going to end next month. The UKs cocooning is for at least 12 weeks. Our cocooning isn't going to be 5 weeks.

I would like to able to visit my dad's place who lives alone in the countryside but it's about 120km away. Even if it was to drop some groceries outside his porch and give him a quick wave, he's in his 70's. I work from home since early March, have had very little to no contact with anyone outside, but for him, even though he will not say it, it's hard. As far as I'm concerned that is an essential journey. If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, there's going to be some severe damage done to many people.

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

And what is your solution for the issues raised about safely cocooning the elderly while everyone else has restrictions lifted? That's what you are suggesting, so how would you go about addressing problems of childcare and housing?

Maybe don't use your parents for childcare until there is a vaccine, you do realise there are thousands who don't have this luxury. On your second point, I am not sure who to address the housing issue but it has to be easier than keeping the whole country locked up. How is it working now, are all the elderly living with families now. The people who are still working, how are they isolating from their families right now if they are living with them.

niallo27

Tell me how wrote: »

We are still at the point where we are trying to figure out just what the scenario is before leaving it all to a single demographic to make sacrifices while others start returning to normal.

If, we get to a point where we have the ability to test rapidly (easy access, quick result) along with very dependable contact tracing and a healthcare system which can manage the Covid-19 patients which comes its way, we might be able to release a lot of the restrictions which are in place in relation to work environments.

If, as some suggest, that the true number for those needing hospitalisation (and therefore the mortality rate) is actually much less as a percentage of the total population than we think at this point in time, then that too might support reducing restrictions.

If, tests for antibodies can show those who are immune, resistant or post infection then that also might support reducing restrictions.

If a vaccine is developed, that would also (at a much slower rate than the above) help with removing restrictions.

But, for now, we have too many if's to reduce or remove restrictions but in 3 weeks, we will have more information to either support extended the lockdown, or starting to rollback.

Good post, I cant disagree with anything there but is anything there achievable in the next 3 months.

citysights

Tell me how wrote: »

Because, the US is a world leader in influencing opinion and also because his behavior is of such a magnitude that it is literally history in the making and so is of interest to a great number of people.

Well the question was actually for the other poster who felt that Trump would be a better alternative to watching Leo. Plain and simple deflection it was thrown Trump in there so the matter of Leo’s performance couldn’t be discussed. Not the only poster to have noticed it either.

Blueshoe

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Why do you keep relating things to Trump and then complaining about him?

Are you OK?

Some of the best minds on the planet work in American research institutions and for organisations such as the CDC. When push comes to shove it may end up that China infected us but America will save us.

People would do well to remember which country they would really prefer as world leader.

Cyrus

JL555 wrote: »

I would like to able to visit my dad's place who lives alone in the countryside but it's about 120km away. Even if it was to drop some groceries outside his porch and give him a quick wave, he's in his 70's. I work from home since early March, have had very little to no contact with anyone outside, but for him, even though he will not say it, it's hard. As far as I'm concerned that is an essential journey. If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, there's going to be some severe damage done to many people.

Surely that’s an essential journey if he has no safe way of getting his shopping ?

Tell me how

JL555 wrote: »

I would like to able to visit my dad's place who lives alone in the countryside but it's about 120km away. Even if it was to drop some groceries outside his porch and give him a quick wave, he's in his 70's. I work from home since early March, have had very little to no contact with anyone outside, but for him, even though he will not say it, it's hard. As far as I'm concerned that is an essential journey. If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, there's going to be some severe damage done to many people.

Don't entirely disagree.

But, If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are not extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, and this continues to be a highly infectious and debilitating illness which is hard to identify before several more may have been infected, many will die.

Tell me how

Blueshoe wrote: »

Some of the best minds on the planet work in American research institutions and for organisations such as the CDC. When push comes to shove it may end up that China infected us but America will save us.

People would do well to remember which country they would really prefer as world leader.

If you asked me to nominate a world leader right now, it definitely would not be the US.

Richest country in the world and they are digging mass graves in NY while the President wondered aloud should they just let it flow through the country.

Tell me how

niallo27 wrote: »

Good post, I cant disagree with anything there but is anything there achievable in the next 3 months.

Maybe 'If's' 2 or 3 if we learn from data from other countries as well as from within Ireland.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't entirely disagree.

But, If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are not extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, and this continues to be a highly infectious and debilitating illness which is hard to identify before several more may have been infected, many will die.

But why is June then okay. And not July. Or September. Or Christmas? It seems completely arbitrary now. Either we keep 2km limits and cocooning until there is a vaccine, or we start to relax restrictions from May (keeping working from home for those that can, and as much social distancing as is possible). Don’t see the point in keeping this lockdown until some intermediate date between the two

JL555

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't entirely disagree.

But, If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are not extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, and this continues to be a highly infectious and debilitating illness which is hard to identify before several more may have been infected, many will die.

Very true, but this will be the case until there's a viable treatment or vaccine available which is pretty far out in the future. This virus will most likely be with us for the long haul, it's very unlikely to go anywhere, even if there is a vaccine developed.

Blueshoe

Tell me how wrote: »

If you asked me to nominate a world leader right now, it definitely would not be the US.

Richest country in the world and they are digging mass graves in NY while the President wondered aloud should they just let it flow through the country.

Why would people think the Donald Trump would change his personality because of a pandemic?
The people and the organisations working in the background who have the training, funding and skills are the people that count.

The population density and urban sprawl in new York is like nothing someone from Ireland could understand unless they saw it themselves.
Spread was inevitable. Where is the blame for the mayor of New York?

r93kaey5p2izun

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe don't use your parents for childcare until there is a vaccine, you do realise there are thousands who don't have this luxury. On your second point, I am not sure who to address the housing issue but it has to be easier than keeping the whole country locked up. How is it working now, are all the elderly living with families now. The people who are still working, how are they isolating from their families right now if they are living with them.

You can drop the patronising "you do know" bit (never has a smug phrase been so overused as since the inception of this forum), I don't have children. So you don't have a solution for the many that rely on parents for childcare - we don't have sufficient childcare places to cover the extra children. Most people with elderly in their home are staying home right now. The essential workers I know in that circumstance have sourced alternative accommodation for the moment - that option wouldn't be possible on a wider scale though. Also the risk would be greater than it is now if everyone, rather than just key workers, is moving around.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

But why is June then okay. And not July. Or September. Or Christmas? It seems completely arbitrary now. Either we keep 2km limits and cocooning until there is a vaccine, or we start to relax restrictions from May (keeping working from home for those that can, and as much social distancing as is possible). Don’t see the point in keeping this lockdown until some intermediate date between the two

See post #5085 above.

It's not solely down to the point of there being a vaccine at this point. It may be.

It may be lockdown until June, or July, or whenever, but the elements influencing this are constantly changing and being assessed and so this will continue to be piecemeal extensions or rollback.

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

If you lock a whole generation away they will eventually become a burden . Stiffening joints , mental deterioration , lack of freshair for some , lack of stimulation etc etc.
And the very same risk of passing it on applies to every age group by the way
The elderly are not more likely to carry it , or pass it on , they are more likely to suffer badly from it all right

How would you feel if you were out and about and passed it on to a pregnant woman ? Passing it on is not exclusive to the older generation

I never said or implied it was okay for any one to take a risk and break with restrictions. I only responded to the specific post of a grandparent wanting to take that risk. It isn't okay for anyone to pass it on.

There doesn't need to be a stiffening of joints (walks, or home workout videos are everywhere) mental deterioration (all kinds of books, stimulation games/puzzles, chats... - all online) lack of fresh air (open window, go outside...) For every complaint or problem there's usually an adequate solution if you want to see it.

Stateofyou

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Attitudes like this are perhaps one of the more demoralising effects of the virus. Its the shaming of the elderly who are petrified to become a burden.

I can only say everyone has a right to a life and there is worse things than death itself. Not living is one of them, none of us are living until restrictions are lifted, the elderly included.

At what point do the restrictions become a worse fate than Covid itself?

Slow your roll there, I didn't in any way shame anyone. I pointed out the risks that poster was considering taking in another month. The risks are the same for that poster as anyone else. Stating the reality of taking risks (anybody) isn't shaming. Reel it in, ffs. We are living, albeit not as we are used to or would like to. What kind of comment is that. Anne Frank and her family hid in an attack in fear of discovery. It could always be worse.