Relaxation of restrictions

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

You can drop the patronising "you do know" bit (never has a smug phrase been so overused as since the inception of this forum), I don't have children. So you don't have a solution for the many that rely on parents for childcare - we don't have sufficient childcare places to cover the extra children. Most people with elderly in their home are staying home right now. The essential workers I know in that circumstance have sourced alternative accommodation for the moment - that option wouldn't be possible on a wider scale though. Also the risk would be greater than it is now if everyone, rather than just key workers, is moving around.

Well if they cant get childcare, then one stays at home and minds the kids or a single parent then that parent stays at home. Are you seriously saying hundreds of thousands should stay out of work because some families wont have their parents to mind their kids. I never said this would be easy but we cant just say we all must stay at home.

ILoveYourVibes

niallo27 wrote: »

we cant just say we all must stay at home.

Here is the thing you would be surprised at what people can do when we have no choice.

niallo27

Stateofyou wrote: »

Slow your roll there, I didn't in any way shame anyone. I pointed out the risks that poster was considering taking in another month. The risks are the same for that poster as anyone else. Stating the reality of taking risks (anybody) isn't shaming. Reel it in, ffs. We are living, albeit not as we are used to or would like to. What kind of comment is that. Anne Frank and her family hid in an attack in fear of discovery. It could always be worse.

This it always could be worse response is bull****, of course things could always be worse, you were paralysed in that car crash but hey it could be worse your only paralysed from the waist down so her up it could be worse. Plus if Anne Frank hid for 2 years or whatever, then why cant the vulnerable hide away for 18 months until a vaccine.

Stateofyou

niallo27 wrote: »

This it always could be worse response is bull****, of course things could always be worse, you were paralysed in that car crash but hey it could be worse your only paralysed from the waist down so her up it could be worse. Plus if Anne Frank hid for 2 years or whatever, then why cant the vulnerable hide away for 18 months until a vaccine.

It's not bs. What is bs is the hysterics over a few weeks of restrictions, stated intentions to go against gov't requirements and putting your family and health system/people at risk, and refusing to see solutions to challenges.
I have not been a part of any of the squabbling here about older/vulnerable people cocooning. To repeat, I have only replied to the one poster who is a grandparent and considering breaking rules in a month or so. It's not okay for that poster, or anyone else. If we can all do our best to get through this and keep to rules and guidelines the safer we'll ALL be and sooner.

r93kaey5p2izun

niallo27 wrote: »

Well if they cant get childcare, then one stays at home and minds the kids or a single parent then that parent stays at home. Are you seriously saying hundreds of thousands should stay out of work because some families wont have their parents to mind their kids. I never said this would be easy but we cant just say we all must stay at home.

I'm not saying anything - I'm asking you to consider that what you are suggesting is not as easy as you seem to think. Your posts certainly do make it seem like it will be easy. It reads like lifting restrictions while cocooning the vulnerable will be the easiest solution for you, therefore you think it must be the easiest solution for most people. Your posts give no consideration to the significant issues that will need to be addressed for many people.

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

I'm not saying anything - I'm asking you to consider that what you are suggesting is not as easy as you seem to think. Your posts certainly do make it seem like it will be easy. It reads like lifting restrictions while cocooning the vulnerable will be the easiest solution for you, therefore you think it must be the easiest solution for most people. Your posts give no consideration to the significant issues that will need to be addressed for many people.

I never said it would be easy, this is a complete ****-show. Of course it will be easier to cocoon the minority rather than the majority. Long term lockdown is not viable so we may have no choice, besides a long term lockdown how would you propose we deal with the more vulnerable in society. Just to be clear in no post have I said all the restrictions should be lifted or no where near all of them.

Stateofyou

Folks - why wouldn't a more extreme lockdown for EVERYONE for just another 3 weeks work really well? Where we take a hard enough hit and stay indoors/personal yard, expand grocery deliveries and Gardaí for enforcement and see where that takes us. How are other countries who are managing well approaching this?

KiKi III

niallo27 wrote: »

I never said it would be easy, this is a complete ****-show. Of course it will be easier to cocoon the minority rather than the majority. Long term lockdown is not viable so we may have no choice, besides a long term lockdown how would you propose we deal with the more vulnerable in society. Just to be clear in no post have I said all the restrictions should be lifted or no where near all of them.

No, but you have approximately 50+ posts on this thread today alone calling for the easing of restrictions. It’s the only thread you’ve posted on all day, and you only have one point you keep making over and over.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

It's not bs. What is bs is the hysterics over a few weeks of restrictions, stated intentions to go against gov't requirements and putting your family and health system/people at risk, and refusing to see solutions to challenges.
I have not been a part of any of the squabbling here about older/vulnerable people cocooning. To repeat, I have only replied to the one poster who is a grandparent and considering breaking rules in a month or so. It's not okay for that poster, or anyone else. If we can all do our best to get through this and keep to rules and guidelines the safer we'll ALL be and sooner.

If you are referring to me at no stage did i say I was consider breaking any rule in a month or two . I said in a month or two I would fear for depression setting in
I was speaking of preferring to take a risk if cocooned for years as some had suggested
I think you are mixing up two points I made

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

If you are referring to me at no stage did i say I was consider breaking any rule in a month or two . I said in a month or two I would fear for depression setting in
I was speaking of preferring to take a risk if cocooned for years as some had suggested

Yeah I'm referring to you and yes you did say you were considering it.

"I think I might take the risk as not seeing my family or holding them close would kill us both here . We will do as told now and if they say another month we will do that but its very difficult to even contemplate much longer without a deep depression setting in
I imagine a lot of my family and friends would feel the same"

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

Folks - why wouldn't a more extreme lockdown for EVERYONE for just another 3 weeks work really well? Where we take a hard enough hit and stay indoors/personal yard, expand grocery deliveries and Gardaí for enforcement and see where that takes us. How are other countries who are managing well approaching this?

I agree with most of the post . The highest risk for the majority is shopping in my opinion
They need to sort something out to lessen the risks

Ulysses Gaze

Tell me how wrote: »

We are still at the point where we are trying to figure out just what the scenario is before leaving it all to a single demographic to make sacrifices while others start returning to normal.

If, we get to a point where we have the ability to test rapidly (easy access, quick result) along with very dependable contact tracing and a healthcare system which can manage the Covid-19 patients which comes its way, we might be able to release a lot of the restrictions which are in place in relation to work environments.

If, as some suggest, that the true number for those needing hospitalisation (and therefore the mortality rate) is actually much less as a percentage of the total population than we think at this point in time, then that too might support reducing restrictions.

If, tests for antibodies can show those who are immune, resistant or post infection then that also might support reducing restrictions.

If a vaccine is developed, that would also (at a much slower rate than the above) help with removing restrictions.

But, for now, we have too many if's to reduce or remove restrictions but in 3 weeks, we will have more information to either support extended the lockdown, or starting to rollback.

Great points.

We still don't know enough about a virus, that we only became aware of four months ago, to start making any long term predictions on future lockdown status.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yeah I'm referring to you and yes you did say you were considering it.

"I think I might take the risk as not seeing my family or holding them close would kill us both here . We will do as told now and if they say another month we will do that but its very difficult to even contemplate much longer without a deep depression setting in
I imagine a lot of my family and friends would feel the same"

Taking the risk was not referring to a month or so . It does maybe read so but was in reference to posters who said we could cocoon for years . Probably didn’t express it right now that I read it again

pgj2015

i have a neighbour, he must be in his 80s, he doesnt give a fcuk about this virus, he going driving, visits his family etc

I would be the same to be honest, this crap of peoples kids coming to their parents house shouting from a mile away, its a sad way to live. then you have people in their 20's who are afraid to get it.

Ace2007

JL555 wrote: »

I would like to able to visit my dad's place who lives alone in the countryside but it's about 120km away. Even if it was to drop some groceries outside his porch and give him a quick wave, he's in his 70's. I work from home since early March, have had very little to no contact with anyone outside, but for him, even though he will not say it, it's hard. As far as I'm concerned that is an essential journey. If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, there's going to be some severe damage done to many people.

I get that it must be very hard, and obvious we have no idea regarding your father's health, or how far out in the countryside he is, but there are local GAA clubs up and down the country were people are offering to do groceries for instance, you could arrange for instance that one of them set's up a face time call or Skype with your father. The technology is available, and where there is a will there is a way - be you posting him a device and someone showing him through a window or whatever just to phone you.

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Taking the risk was not referring to a month or so . It does maybe read so but was in reference to posters who said we could cocoon for years . Probably didn’t express it right now that I read it again

Gotcha. I genuinely feel for you (and every one of us in the same boat) and hope you get to see and hug your family again very soon. I know it's rough right now.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

Gotcha. I genuinely feel for you (and every one of us in the same boat) and hope you get to see and hug your family again very soon. I know it's rough right now.

Thanks . I feel for everyone , every house has its own little story and own little worry . Its tough on everyone . In my own wider family we are missing each other , missing grandchildren . In other homes they can’t visit grandparents in care homes , other homes have stressed Leaving Cert teens
Its tough all round but its not helping when posters think its ok to cocoon a generation for years .

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks . I feel for everyone , every house has its own little story and own little worry . Its tough on everyone . In my own wider family we are missing each other , missing grandchildren . In other homes they can’t visit grandparents in care homes , other homes have stressed Leaving Cert teens
Its tough all round but its not helping when posters think its ok to cocoon a generation for years .

Yeah, it's a sh*t sandwich no matter which way you butter it that's for sure. All I got is to try not to worry too much into the future. I remind myself every day that the planet's brightest minds are working together on a shared goal here, and I'm putting my faith in them. I think we're all just verbal diarrhoea-ing our fears and ideas and projections to try to make some sense of it or get some control on it... but it can be distressing to read or hear it sometimes. Mind yourself, we'll get through it!

trapp

Having been reading this forum over the last two weeks (while banned - this is life in lockdown!!) I've been very surprised by the general argument around restrictions.

It seems to, generally, be those arguing for the economy against others arguing to continue lockdown to save lives.

In this argument I would support the lockdown. Forget the economy (even though a broken economy will lead to many silent deaths also) over protecting the health service.

My worry with the lockdowns, not just here, but all over the world, is how they will impact on our lives.

Focusing on here, a lockdown or quite severe restrictions would mean the following;

friends separated indefinitely

family separated indefinitely

No social activity for anyone

No more weddings, funerals as we knew them etc

Grandparents unable to see their granchildren and vice versa.

For children, teenagers and young people a life alone without mixing with friends, making friends, learning social skills etc.

For children no more school, no more sport, no more clubs etc.

For vulnerable children and children from disadvantaged areas a prolonged time out of school, with no support from teachers or community workers would be devastating to their future.

An increase in domestic abuse and child abuse in the home.

Many, many people out of work and living with no purpose in their lives i.e employment, sport, etc

No freedom to go where we want, when we want, within reason.

Some of the above are obviously more damaging than others but effectively we're talking about the complete erosion of our way of life.

A vaccine within a year is the absolute best and at that it's extremely optimistic.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yeah, it's a sh*t sandwich no matter which way you butter it that's for sure. All I got is to try not to worry too much into the future. I remind myself every day that the planet's brightest minds are working together on a shared goal here, and I'm putting my faith in them. I think we're all just verbal diarrhoea-ing our fears and ideas and projections to try to make some sense of it or get some control on it... but it can be distressing to read or hear it sometimes. Mind yourself, we'll get through it!

And you take care too

mandrake04

pgj2015 wrote: »

i have a neighbour, he must be in his 80s, he doesnt give a fcuk about this virus, he going driving, visits his family etc

I would be the same to be honest, this crap of peoples kids coming to their parents house shouting from a mile away, its a sad way to live. then you have people in their 20's who are afraid to get it.

I can understand that, but if he or you got sick then you probably want hospital treatment and you put Doctors and nurses at risk.

Maybe you just say fcuk it and douse yourself in petrol and strike a match then no more risk?

growleaves

Yeah, it's a sh*t sandwich no matter which way you butter it that's for sure.

..and we're all going to have to take a bite?

billyhead

billyhead wrote: »

Will the likes of gyms, hairdressers, pubs be the last to reopen?

More than likely. Its possible the covid payment will be extended for people in those areas.

Eod100

pgj2015 wrote: »

i have a neighbour, he must be in his 80s, he doesnt give a fcuk about this virus, he going driving, visits his family etc

I would be the same to be honest, this crap of peoples kids coming to their parents house shouting from a mile away, its a sad way to live. then you have people in their 20's who are afraid to get it.

If he doesn't care if he gets it and dies that's his choice but getting it risks spreading it to other people his age or immunosuprressed people, people with underlying conditions, nurses, doctors etc. Its a selfish act, I don't think his age justifies it. Its tough on everyone

FloatingVoter

Deleted User wrote: »

More than likely. Its possible the covid payment will be extended for people in those areas.

The irony is the hairdressers will probably be the very last and the only essential one of the three. You can get pissed at home while you cook dinner but the hair issue will start to become more than a meme.

Ned Led Zeppo

NDWC wrote: »

I swear people must get a kick out of posting drivel like this and winding other people up

All mouth and no trousers.Prove that it's drivel.Perhaps one of your supporters
can give you a clue.;)

JTMan

The Irish Times has some details here on how restrictions are likely be lifted after the May holiday weekend.

Restrictions lifted on:
- Some retail outlets.
- DIY and garden stores
- Easing on the requirement of those over 70 to cocoon. This could allow for exercise outside of the home at certain times.
- Smaller construction sites

"Many months later":
- Office allowed reopen BUT ...

"For the foreseeable future” (until there is a vaccine?)
- Work from home

I guess offices will be allowed reopen but if staff can work from home then work from home will stay mandatory for a long time to come.

Hopefully larger construction sites are allowed open soon after too.

munsterlegend

JTMan wrote: »

The Irish Times has some details here on how restrictions are likely be lifted after the May holiday weekend.

Restrictions lifted on:
- Some retail outlets.
- DIY and garden stores
- Easing on the requirement of those over 70 to cocoon. This could allow for exercise outside of the home at certain times.
- Smaller construction sites

"Many months later":
- Office allowed reopen BUT ...

"For the foreseeable future” (until there is a vaccine?)
- Work from home

I guess offices will be allowed reopen but if staff can work from home then work from home will stay mandatory for a long time to come.

Hopefully larger construction sites are allowed open soon after too.

They also seem to be considering schools opening in a limited way.

robinph

If someone works in an office then can't think why they couldn't get setup to work from home. Maybe they are not setup to do so yet, but the technology exists and not a big task to do.

If needed then any office jobs can be made to people taking it in turns to turn up to the office for half a week at a time and work from home the other days.

the kelt

Stateofyou wrote: »

Folks - why wouldn't a more extreme lockdown for EVERYONE for just another 3 weeks work really well? Where we take a hard enough hit and stay indoors/personal yard, expand grocery deliveries and Gardaí for enforcement and see where that takes us. How are other countries who are managing well approaching this?

And then what?

As I alluded to in a previous post one of the biggest issues isn’t the lockdown. People realise we have to do it, part of the plan to get on top of this is the lockdown we have to do it.

But after that what’s the plan? What happens then. Again as I alluded to previously we aren’t taking into account human nature and how people react in certain situations.

I can pretty much guarantee if in 3 weeks the people watch another announcement of patting people on the back telling them how great they are and you know what let’s just try it again for another few weeks the that’s it, buy in is finished and we will see ourselves in a worse position.

We need to bring people with us, recognise the mood, you can see already that people aren’t buying into this as much as they did before and that’s not simply because people are fed up, it’s because we aren’t being given a coherent route or map to get out of it.

Look at the language involved, maybe, we might be able to, possibly etc etc. Every week we are being told the next week, days are the most crucial, they pass and then the same again.

Of course it’s a fluid situation but people need to see where we are going or at least a general plan. For example “if we do this for 3 weeks and this metric ends up at this level then this is what happens, this is what will open”

And yes that takes a bit of gumption to do but it needs to be done for this to work. When you bring a mass of people on a long journey down the road there’s only so many times you can say we are early there, just around the corner turn that corner to see another stretch of road before the mass turns on you, and again that’s human nature and people’s natural reaction.

The worst case scenario is we kick the can again and then buy in for anything is finished and we are all in trouble. From a personal point of view I’m lucky in all this, another 3 weeks doesn’t affect me or my family or even longer, but I recognize people aren’t just fed up with the lockdown, to believe the vast majority of people just can’t hack it or just want everything opened up isn’t the case. Everyone is still on the journey but at this stage need a map of some description.

This isn’t a reason to have a go at the government either, think we have been lucky in many ways to be in a political flux and to date they have done a great job but they are running a risk here at the moment and another kicking the can down the road exercise in 3 weeks will be fatal. Now we have the really hard decisions coming up to put a coherent plan to the people which will require tough decisions without wishy washy language of maybes and possibly.