Relaxation of restrictions

carolmon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There was a clip on the news of a family arriving to the parents house to celebrate their 65th Wedding Anniversary . They rang the bell then all stepped back over 2 metres to clap and chat .

And I'm not sure the people visiting all came from one household either

pgj2015

give them a proper hug though ffs. people are way to ocd about all this.

ZX7R

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And on the very same day Spanish authorities have announced almost 3500 new virus cases. This relaxation may not last for too long if the death toll and ICU cases spike again.

Spain has reported 2265 new cases and 280 deaths
Today.

alwald

There is a possibility that no vaccine/cure will be found for COVID-19 just like other viruses such as HIV, respiratory syncytial virus, and the cancer-causing Epstein-Barr virus to name few.
The current lockdown measures are temporary and will last a while, that's certain, and I expect them to last until June.
Once the measures will start to be lifted businesses/shops will open bit by bit with strict measures such as social distancing as we need to learn to live with this virus.
Pubs, restaurants, hotels, gyms and a wide range of other businesses might never open again if the virus is still with us and WFH will become the norm.

I see that some countries are beginning to lift some restrictions but this doesn't mean they won't bring them back if the number of infections/deaths increase again.
I also noticed some "experts" here talking about immunity with certainty. To date there is no proof that a person previously infected is totally immune and we have no idea of the long term effects of this virus on the human body.

carolmon

JoeA3 wrote: »

It was on the news lastnight. Elderly couple in their 90’s, their 65th wedding anniversary and all their children / grandchildren were gathered outside their house. Maybe the entire extended family live within 2k... maybe not!

The curtain twitchers on here aren’t happy but good luck to them I say!

If that's a reference to me I think it's a bit unfair... I was just asking for clarity.

I had an invitation to a friend's garden yesterday which I refused because I thought it wasn't allowed so yes I was confused when I saw this on the news last night as to what was and wasn't allowed.

JoeExotic81

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't agree.
We could stop road deaths by banning all cars. But we know that's not practical.
That is what we are doing now.

.

Couldn't agree more with your post. The road death analogy is actually a really good one

As recent as 1997 there were 472 deaths, 13,115 injuries and 2,182 very serious injuries due to driving. Did we shut down the roads? No, we got better at managing the problem.

The government need to start making measured actions at least on may 5th, or like you say, we will be staring down the barrel of another suicide epidemic, much worse than the one due to the last recession.

ZX7R

Blueshoe wrote: »

People only want to see certain sectors opened first. Iv heard construction as one. It's sort of an experiment to see what happens to these workers while others can continue to work from home in their PJ's.

The government and hse advisors will make the call as to who goes back first and when. There always has to be cannon fodder.

It's not an experiment with construction.
It would take the largest sized group of the emergency government payment.

MadYaker

alwald wrote: »

There is possibility that no vaccine/cure will be found for COVID-19 just like other viruses such as HIV, respiratory syncytial virus, and the cancer-causing Epstein-Barr virus to name few.
The current lockdown measures are temporary and will last a while, that's certain, and I expect them to last until June.
Once the measures will start to be lifted businesses/shops will open bit by bit with strict measures such as social distancing as we need to learn to live with this virus.
Pubs, restaurants, hotels, gyms and a wide range of other businesses might never open again if the virus is still with us and WFH will become the norm.

I see that some countries are beginning to lift some restrictions but this doesn't mean they won't bring them back if the number of infections/deaths increase again.
I also noticed some "experts" here talking about immunity with certainty. To date there is no proof that a person previously infected is totally immune and we have no idea of the long term effects of this virus on the human body.

There are multiple anti viral drugs already going through trials and 60 different countries working on a vaccine. Haven’t heard a single scientist say there won’t be a vaccine. The viruses you listed aren’t Coronaviruses. There’s loads of proof that previously infected people are immune. Have you heard about the antibody testing they’re using in Asia? These can give false positives which has led people to believe that some people got the infection twice but that’s not the case as far as I know. All this stuff is coming and we’re going to need it or we’ll never be out of lockdown. Everyone knows if we lift the lockdown without proper testing and masks for everyone then the numbers will just shoot up again.

JoeA3

carolmon wrote: »

If that's a reference to me I think it's a bit unfair... I was just asking for clarity.

I had an invitation to a friend's garden yesterday which I refused because I thought it wasn't allowed so yes I was confused when I saw this on the news last night as to what was and wasn't allowed.

Not in reference to you at all, I hadn’t seen your post.

In my opinion people should take the restrictions as broad guidelines to follow and apply a degree of common sense to those guidelines, to suit their own circumstances.

Does the 2k limit make sense to my own situation, living in a rural area, where I could walk for 5k comfortably without coming within 5 metres or another person? Of course not.

So just do what feels comfortable to you in your own surroundings, within reason imo and spend less time worrying about what others are doing.

ZX7R

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As far as I am aware only one European country (Austria I think) has made mask wearing compulsory so it remains to be seen if there will be a reduction in cases due to this. If not worn and used properly masks can actually increase the risk of transmission rather than reduce it.

Spain are officially issuing face masks today , been giving and distributed by there police forces

OMM 0000

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Have a read of the HSE consultant`s comments on the use of face masks at the beginning of this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112856017#

They're clearly wrong though.

Let me ask you this:

How can you explain how there's almost no local transmission amongst countries who obsessively wear masks outside?

Look at China as an example:

No one was wearing masks in Wuhan, and the virus exploded. When everyone in China learnt about this, they all started wearing masks. Massive cities like Shanghai and Beijing, which never went into lockdown, got barely any cases.

So the only difference between Wuhan and Shanghai is people wore masks in Shanghai.

You can actually see in the HSE person's answer that he doesn't understand why people are wearing masks. It's not about preventing you from getting infected, it's about preventing you from infecting others. That's why masks stop local transmission.

Here's a simple video showing how masks stop your germs from spreading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There was a clip on the news of a family arriving to the parents house to celebrate their 65th Wedding Anniversary . They rang the bell then all stepped back over 2 metres to clap and chat .

Well a trip for such a celebration isn't allowed according to our own gov't, and Gardaí at check points inquiring about what their essential trip is would/should have then turned them back upon discovering if they had of been stopped. So, very irresponsible reporting.

Poorside

JoeA3 wrote: »

Not in reference to you at all, I hadn’t seen your post.

In my opinion people should take the restrictions as broad guidelines to follow and apply a degree of common sense to those guidelines, to suit their own circumstances.

Does the 2k limit make sense to my own situation, living in a rural area, where I could walk for 5k comfortably without coming within 5 metres or another person? Of course not.

So just do what feels comfortable to you in your own surroundings, within reason imo and spend less time worrying about what others are doing.

So in other words, flout the guidelines if you want to and just make sure you're alright jack.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well a trip for such a celebration isn't allowed according to our own gov't, and Gardaí at check points inquiring about what their essential trip is would/should have then turned them back upon discovering if they had of been stopped. So, very irresponsible reporting.

Have to agree it is irresponsible journalism . Having said that I can’t see a huge harm in it if they are distancing well and making sure the elderly are safe
But yes it is against the recommendation .

JRant

alwald wrote: »

There is possibility that no vaccine/cure will be found for COVID-19 just like other viruses such as HIV, respiratory syncytial virus, and the cancer-causing Epstein-Barr virus to name few.
The current lockdown measures are temporary and will last a while, that's certain, and I expect them to last until June.
Once the measures will start to be lifted businesses/shops will open bit by bit with strict measures such as social distancing as we need to learn to live with this virus.
Pubs, restaurants, hotels, gyms and a wide range of other businesses might never open again if the virus is still with us and WFH will become the norm.

I see that some countries are beginning to lift some restrictions but this doesn't mean they won't bring them back if the number of infections/deaths increase again.
I also noticed some "experts" here talking about immunity with certainty. To date there is no proof that a person previously infected is totally immune and we have no idea of the long term effects of this virus on the human body.

There's real hope that a vaccine can be found, they almost got one for SARS-1 but the market for it disappeared overnight.

As for the rest, IMO that's just plain wrong. Society will go back to the way things were. Might take a little longer but all those places will reopen. We are not going to redesign society for something that can be managed with careful public health management.

alwald

MadYaker wrote: »

There are multiple anti viral drugs already going through trials and 60 different countries working on a vaccine. Haven’t heard a single scientist say there won’t be a vaccine. The viruses you listed aren’t Coronaviruses.

There are other coronaviruses with no vaccine and while I am aware that plenty of trials are done there is still no certainty that a vaccine/cure will be found.

MadYaker wrote: »

There’s loads of proof that previously infected people are immune. Have you heard about the antibody testing they’re using in Asia? These can give false positives which has led people to believe that some people got the infection twice but that’s not the case as far as I know.

No there is no proof yet as this is a new virus. All scientific studies will take years to come to final and clear conclusions.
Testing is all over the place at the moment and countries are barely able to test people with symptoms never mind those previously infected.

carolmon

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well a trip for such a celebration isn't allowed according to our own gov't, and Gardaí at check points inquiring about what their essential trip is would/should have then turned them back upon discovering if they had of been stopped. So, very irresponsible reporting.

Just to be clear I'm not begrudging the elderly couple their celebration... I was just confused about the restrictions after I saw rte report it as a good news story.

I then thought maybe we are allowed to call to a friend's garden once we don't go inside (I was hoping as it's very tough doing this totally alone)

JoeA3

Poorside wrote: »

So in other words, flout the guidelines if you want to and just make sure you're alright jack.

That’s exactly it yeah. :rolleyes:

Stateofyou

carolmon wrote: »

Just to be clear I'm not begrudging the elderly couple their celebration... I was just confused about the restrictions after I saw rte report it as a good news story.

I then thought maybe we are allowed to call to a friend's garden once we don't go inside (I was hoping as it's very tough doing this totally alone)

Ah yeah, none of us would begrudge it under normal circumstances! But the rules are there and if this is allowed to go on and promoted by the country's leading news source, then of course it is going to cause issues including unnecessary confusion. It's ridiculous.
Edit to add I sympathise with how tough it is going at it alone. Hope you can get some video calls in with your friends and loved ones!

Spencer Brown

VonLuck wrote: »

I was just reading an Irish Times article where they said that smaller construction sites may also re-open although offices would remain closed for “many months more”, with working from home to remain in place “for the foreseeable future”.

Slightly surprised that the government is already saying this before the end of this additional 3 week period.

I guess their thoughts are working from home for the people who can do is a mixture of minor inconvenience for some and welcomed by others, it it prevents a potential source of spread for minimal economic impact then they will push to keep it going as long as possible.

alwald

JRant wrote: »

There's real hope that a vaccine can be found, they almost got one for SARS-1 but the market for it disappeared overnight.

There is also hope to find a cure for cancer, HIV and other coronaviruses that were less transmissible from H2H.

JRant wrote: »

As for the rest, IMO that's just plain wrong. Society will go back to the way things were. Might take a little longer but all those places will reopen. We are not going to redesign society for something that can be managed with careful public health management.

A lot will be redesigned if no cure/vaccine is found. Pubs as an example will never open again as how can people wear masks and drink at the same time?

MadYaker

alwald wrote: »

There are other coronaviruses with no vaccine and while I am aware that plenty of trials are done there is still no certainty that a vaccine/cure will be found.



No there is no proof yet as this is a new virus. All scientific studies will take years to come to final and clear conclusions.
Testing is all over the place at the moment and countries are barely able to test people with symptoms never mind those previously infected.

Go look at what they are doing in South Korea and Taiwan. That’s the road map we need to follow.

Saying there’ll be no vaccine or cure is a fantasy and if you want to engage in fantasies I won’t stop you.

JRant

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Have to agree it is irresponsible journalism . Having said that I can’t see a huge harm in it if they are distancing well and making sure the elderly are safe
But yes it is against the recommendation .

It's a good news story in the otherwise sea of misery we get dishes up. I loved seeing it and shows how people can be responsible while still maintaining the social distancing rules. As for the more strict restrictions they are "breaking" well boo hoo. This is an elderly couple and may pass away in the near future so seeing their family from a safe distance is doing absolutely no harm.

Downlinz

paw patrol wrote: »

I'm not blind to that fact people will die either way.
Just that the cost of the current situation is too much on a lot more people.
There is a more balanced approach - as I stated in my original post.

staying at home on lockdown isn't the answer.

People seem to forget what was happening before the lockdown where most cafes, restaurants, hairdressers, travel agents etc were shutting down of their own volition either through concern for the welfare of staff or because so few people were turning up that the business was no longer viable.
The lockdown merely enforced the will of the vast majority by restricting the minority who still wanted to go to pubs, betting shops, foreign holidays etc.

The idea that removing the lockdown will return things to normal and help business is farcical if the public confidence in their safety isn't there. It'd be a closing scenario for so many small businesses since they'd lose the Covid-19 social welfare payments for staff and have to try to pay them in a loss making landscape where few are doing non-essential business anymore.

It'd make the spread scenario much worse as well which in a country with low ICU capacity is far more frightening than many realise.

There's literally no benefit to this other than keeping a minority of whingers satisfied, that's it.

Ace2007

JRant wrote: »

There's real hope that a vaccine can be found, they almost got one for SARS-1 but the market for it disappeared overnight.

As for the rest, IMO that's just plain wrong. Society will go back to the way things were. Might take a little longer but all those places will reopen. We are not going to redesign society for something that can be managed with careful public health management.

Society will be redesigned after this - there is no question about it. People and companies will act differently - no longer will you be going to work with the cold or bad cough - If nothing else, health and safety along with insurance won't allow it. Just like nowadays, if you have sick cert from a doctor, your not insured to be in the work environment - just depends on your sector if it's enforced.

Office companies can no longer turn around and say that they can't support wfh when 99% of their current workforce are doing just that for weeks on end.

Sierra Oscar

Diarmuid wrote: »

That's not even necessary. If you have the symptoms, isolate for 14 days. The test doesn't really add a whole lot.

The test results are important for contact tracing though, it allows health officials to direct their limited resources towards monitoring those who have been in close contact with confirmed cases.

DebDynamite

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think they will have to allow the cocooned group a short walk outside soon ., We look out the window here and not a soul to be seen , the roads are quiet most of the day with the odd walker out exercising .There is no reason why a 70 year old could not take a walk avoiding any contact and be vigilant . Even if they did meet another they can cross the road and be 5- 6 metres away .The vast majority in that group are well aware they have to be extra careful not to be close to anyone

I thought cocooning was just a concept designed to shield the elderly and vulnerable as much as possible, but that it wasn’t something that was being legally enforced in the “lockdown” measures. The elderly can still go out for their walks as much as they want and go shopping, though they are discouraged to do it. The guards aren’t stopping elderly people and telling them to go home, etc. The elderly and vulnerable have as much freedom as anyone

carolmon

Stateofyou wrote: »

Ah yeah, none of us would begrudge it under normal circumstances! But the rules are there and if this is allowed to go on and promoted by the country's leading news source, then of course it is going to cause issues including unnecessary confusion. It's ridiculous.
Edit to add I sympathise with how tough it is going at it alone. Hope you can get some video calls in with your friends and loved ones!

Yes technology is great thankfully but it only goes so far.

I totally accepted the closing of pubs /social outlets etc but I really miss my daily walk and chat it was a small thing but it kept me going

screamer

MadYaker wrote: »

Go look at what they are doing in South Korea and Taiwan. That’s the road map we need to follow.

Saying there’ll be no vaccine or cure is a fantasy and if you want to engage in fantasies I won’t stop you.

It may not be what you want to hear but there may not be a cure or a vaccine. Think of all the diseases that we currently cannot cure not prevent. We all hope for a cure and vaccine for this virus but time will be the only thing to judge whether we manage it or not.

Stateofyou

JRant wrote: »

It's a good news story in the otherwise sea of misery we get dishes up. I loved seeing it and shows how people can be responsible while still maintaining the social distancing rules. As for the more strict restrictions they are "breaking" well boo hoo. This is an elderly couple and may pass away in the near future so seeing their family from a safe distance is doing absolutely no harm.

It's not responsible though is it, when it's breaking the restrictions that are there for all of us, designed for us to work together in a common goal to reduce transmission. Boo hoo? Wow. Suppose hundreds of thousands woke up tomorrow with that attitude and flouted the rules, telling themselves they all have a very good reason and causing no harm. Where would we be then.