Relaxation of restrictions

the kelt

suicide_circus wrote: »

How long til people start disobeying restrictions en masse?

if it gets to the start of June and Leo says "another 2 months lads" how long til compliance starts to become a big issue?

Not long at all, as I alluded to that’s human nature, you have to bring people with you on the journey.

Unless there’s some form of plan, idea or hope of some easing of restrictions actually concretely put to the people at the end of this 3 week period compliance is going to be an issue.

Yis are great, now just keep it going lads only washes with the vast majority of people for so long.

At the moment within the last few pages on here we see diverging opinions of things being worse in terms of more extreme lock downs for longer to ideas that huge crowds will be able to mingle again within a few months.

In the current vacuum of just keep going and sure we’ll see I don’t see how anyone can completely dismiss either of those views in all honesty.

Sure logically you’re thinking for example a mass gathering in July is unlikely but what’s the governments plan? What’s the road map for after the 5th of May for the rest of the year? What’s the criteria being used to assess when and what the next stages should be.

We are talking about people’s lives now with and without the virus, people simply can’t survive in the basis of let’s just see where we are in 3 weeks, 2 months etc and that includes everyone from the general public to our health service etc.

Loafing Oaf

suicide_circus wrote: »

How long til people start disobeying restrictions en masse?

if it gets to the start of June and Leo says "another 2 months lads" how long til compliance starts to become a big issue?

Not in Irish people's nature to openly defy authority in this way. People who want to call round to their mates for a barbecue on the q.t. are already doing it.

s1ippy

Dodge wrote: »

Pop in and out of this thread every couple of days.

Usually the same people arguing for opening things up versus the same people arguing for a continuation

Funny really seeing everyone so steadfast in their opinions and neither side has moved an inch from that position in the last two weeks

What I think is so dangerous is people saying "we HAVE to open pubs, we HAVE to send children back to school, we HAVE to resume normality" when they mean "I REALLY WANT..."

Idbatterim

s1ippy wrote: »

What I think is so dangerous is people saying "we HAVE to open pubs, we HAVE to send children back to school, we HAVE to resume normality" when they mean "I REALLY WANT..."

the pubs dont have to be re-opened, but kids will have to be in school come September...

the kelt

s1ippy wrote: »

What I think is so dangerous is people saying "we HAVE to open pubs, we HAVE to send children back to school, we HAVE to resume normality" when they mean "I REALLY WANT..."

What is so dangerous about people wanting to return to normality?

niallo27

s1ippy wrote: »

What I think is so dangerous is people saying "we HAVE to open pubs, we HAVE to send children back to school, we HAVE to resume normality" when they mean "I REALLY WANT..."

What's wrong with people wanting their kids to get an education.

KiKi III

the kelt wrote: »

What is so dangerous about people wanting to return to normality?

Everyone wants a return to normality.

Wanting it RIGHT NOW, when it's extremely high-risk to do so, could be considered dangerous.

s1ippy

Idbatterim wrote: »

the pubs dont have to be re-opened, but kids will have to be in school come September...

You see, that's simply not the case. Schools were one of the first things to close because children are vectors of transmission, coming from all over, gathering and then returning to their households. Their household members will then spread the virus to the people they work with, who likely also have children in various schools.

How can that be allowed to happen, especially given the fact that we could be in the exact same position then? Why would we wilfully increase the number of cases in this way?

niallo27 wrote: »

What's wrong with people wanting their kids to get an education.

There is nothing wrong with wanting that and I never said that was an issue. Would you want your child to get an education at ANY cost? If it meant somebody died would you still be as fervent about sending them in to school? How about if it meant 50 people dying? What if your child and their close contacts caused the death of 300 people? Where do you draw the line, when do you say "alright we'll just do our best given the situation".

Nermal

A couple of reasons why the idea of a contract tracing app is tripe:

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2020/04/12/contact-tracing-in-the-real-world/

Although he suggests building ventilators instead, which is just as much of a waste of money...

growleaves

KiKi III

JL555 wrote: »

lol, the only thing about surveys like this is that they are based how people 'feel' rather than hard facts, anecdotal evidence should always be taken with a large pinch of salt.

We were literally discussing how people are feeling

Lord Trollington

I don't think most reasonable people would have any issue with 3 months of restrictions if they new there was a road map to exiting.

As it stands we've had restrictions for a number if weeks, extended by a further 3 weeks with no indication of a possible lifting of restrictions and what is required to lift them .

There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding schools not opening again until September. Pubs or large social gatherings not opening until there is a vaccine.
No sporting events unless behind closed doors and hundreds of other scenarios all feeding into making people uneasy and feelings of hopelessness.

If the government and health professionals came out with a road map of what we need to do and where we need to be to reopen in a restricted manner in 3 weeks time I would wager that people would be far far more compliant and hard working towards that goal. As it stands now no one has no where and nothing to aim for.

We're just plodding along with no end game

KiKi III

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I don't think most reasonable people would have any issue with 3 months of restrictions if they new there was a road map to exiting.

As it stands we've had restrictions for a number if weeks, extended by a further 3 weeks with no indication of a possible lifting of restrictions and what is required to lift them .

Simon Harris has said the metric they are looking for is that the virus will have slowed to consistently below a 5% increase daily, and thankfully we are well on track for that.

I think we would have done it in two weeks, but the fear was people would go nuts then for the May Bank Holiday and we would need to go into lockdown again.

So they put an extra week on it to prevent that outcome.

Lord Trollington

KiKi III wrote: »

Simon Harris has said the metric they are looking for is that the virus will have slowed to consistently below a 5% increase daily, and thankfully we are well on track for that.

I think we would have done it in two weeks, but the fear was people would go nuts then for the May Bank Holiday and we would need to go into lockdown again.

So they put an extra week on it to prevent that outcome.

But that 5% daily increase is pie in the sky because testing numbers and results has been laughable .

We really don't know where we are at regarding daily increase numbers and percentage until we have a functioning testing and results system .

Rotweiler

Education is not done in 4 walls. Education can be given everywhere.
What is wrong with "wanting" is that people still underestimate this virus just because they did not get infected.
I suggest you watch the videos of people who beg to be able to take a full breath one last time.

Children run, sweat, spit, they are more active, less hygienic and it is a perfect spot for incubation.

Demanding and wanting is different. When you read it is a demand rather than a want or a wish. I rarely see people here mentioning "I wish" or "I hope sooner". Rather they selfishly want to get rid of their children because it is hard to loiter them at home, or get away from their husbands/wives because yes, it is hard to stay under same roof 24/7 when you have had habits and it is hard to get along during these hard times. Especially when the new trend these days is to be "useful" when you are home. I mean wtf, why can't anybody take a rest, or simply sleep, eat, do whatever they want to do instead of loading themselves with missions? Why do everybody wants to be fitter? Everyone wants to garden? Why everyone is seamlessly rush to UDEMY or such? It is strange times indeed. But ask yourself this question: Would you rather be dead or isolated? Stop behaving like this virus has a mind, ethic, morale or anything human. The virus is a virus!

STB.

Idbatterim wrote: »

the pubs dont have to be re-opened, but kids will have to be in school come September...

No they don't.

OMM 0000

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I doubt your claim that no one in Wuhan was wearing masks before the outbreak. In fact you seem to be contradicting yourself in your post. People in China and other eastern Asian countries are accustomed to wearing masks in public and generally follow the correct procedures. I doubt the same can be said for the majority people in other countries particularly in Ireland.

You're being dishonest now.

You obviously know my meaning was the people in Wuhan weren't wearing masks the way everyone in China is now.

If you've ever been to China, you'll know maybe 1 in 1000 people will be wearing a mask. So let's say 1 in 1000 people in Wuhan were wearing a mask.

Whereas now it's more like 999 in 1000.

So Wuhan pre-virus and Shanghai post-virus don't have the same level of mask wearing. And deep down you know that too.

You're clearly doing that thing where because you can't admit you're wrong, you're going to try to "win" on some grammar technicality. Why would I continue trying to talk to someone like you?

STB.

niallo27 wrote: »

After may 5th if there is not some small rollback then I think there will be.

There will be no rollback.

Lord Trollington

STB. wrote: »

No they don't.

I agree they don't. But businesses and retailers cannot reopen without a functioning schooling system. That is a fact . They are both hand in hand.

Keep the schools closed by all means . But alternative measures will be needed .

KiKi III

Lord Trollington wrote: »

But that 5% daily increase is pie in the sky because testing numbers and results has been laughable .

We really don't know where we are at regarding daily increase numbers and percentage until we have a functioning testing and results system .

I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of chatter about that here on Boards, but according to the news we are sixth in terms of testing in Europe.

We obviously need to get through the backlog and get the turnaround times down to a day or two, but again I think that will have happened by the time the three weeks is up.

STB.

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I agree they don't. But businesses and retailers cannot reopen without a functioning schooling system. That is a fact . They are both hand in hand.

Keep the schools closed by all means . But alternative measures will be needed .

Unfortunately businesses will not be able to open for some time. Otherwise we will be back at square one.


And any sources of mass contagion will be the last to reopen, the same way they were the first to close.

Lord Trollington

KiKi III wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of chatter about that here on Boards, but according to the news we are sixth in terms of testing in Europe.

We obviously need to get through the backlog and get the turnaround times down to a day or two, but again I think that will have happened by the time the three weeks is up.

There is anecdotal evidence of scores and scores of people throughout the country being referred for testing by their GP only to never having a test carried out .

There was a backlog of 40,000+ people awaiting tests and they changed the testing requirements . This isnt chatter on boards. This is fact. We have no grasp on the true number of cases in the country currently .

We wont have a true grasp on how many have had it and are now immune until there is a test for that also. These figures needing to be as accurate as possible will help us in fighting this thing without a vaccine available .

Its not boards chatter.

easypazz

STB. wrote: »

There will be no rollback.

Says who?

Spain has already.

Won't suit the doom merchants on here of course.

Lord Trollington

STB. wrote: »

Unfortunately businesses will not be able to open for some time. Otherwise we will be back at square one.


And any sources of mass contagion will be the last to reopen, the same way they were the first to close.

We cannot continue to fund the closedown of the country indefinitely.

kwestfan08

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I don't think most reasonable people would have any issue with 3 months of restrictions if they new there was a road map to exiting.

As it stands we've had restrictions for a number if weeks, extended by a further 3 weeks with no indication of a possible lifting of restrictions and what is required to lift them .

There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding schools not opening again until September. Pubs or large social gatherings not opening until there is a vaccine.
No sporting events unless behind closed doors and hundreds of other scenarios all feeding into making people uneasy and feelings of hopelessness.

If the government and health professionals came out with a road map of what we need to do and where we need to be to reopen in a restricted manner in 3 weeks time I would wager that people would be far far more compliant and hard working towards that goal. As it stands now no one has no where and nothing to aim for.

We're just plodding along with no end game

Spot on. That's what has me down the most is you just don't know when things are going to be in any way normal. A roadmap with targeted goals would be brilliant for morale I think; I.e if the daily increase is a, we can reopen b, if that rate continues or is lower in x number of weeks, y can safely happen.

Maybe that's impossible but would just be great to know how far along we are and have tangible rewards for the sacrifices we are all making.

average_runner

STB. wrote: »

Unfortunately businesses will not be able to open for some time. Otherwise we will be back at square one.


And any sources of mass contagion will be the last to reopen, the same way they were the first to close.

Businesses will open in May. We cant stay in lockdown.

easypazz

Lord Trollington wrote: »

There is anecdotal evidence of scores and scores of people throughout the country being referred for testing by their GP only to never having a test carried out .

There was a backlog of 40,000+ people awaiting tests and they changed the testing requirements . This isnt chatter on boards. This is fact. We have no grasp on the true number of cases in the country currently .

We wont have a true grasp on how many have had it and are now immune until there is a test for that also. These figures needing to be as accurate as possible will help us in fighting this thing without a vaccine available .

Its not boards chatter.

Things are moving quick and we are now almost up to speed with testing and did 7000+ tests n Saturday.

Results coming back in 48 hours too.

Jenbach110

easypazz wrote: »

Says who?

Spain has already.

Won't suit the doom merchants on here of course.

Yep Spain has lifted restrictions due to a decline in number's. We have a decline in numbers and we are going to just see what happens.

Its the lack of any semblance of a plan that is an alarming issue. Why not say May 5th but it can be reviewed depending on numbers? ie consistent drop of numbers this week and we might let ye by paint

KiKi III

Lord Trollington wrote: »

There is anecdotal evidence of scores and scores of people throughout the country being referred for testing by their GP only to never having a test carried out .

There was a backlog of 40,000+ people awaiting tests and they changed the testing requirements . This isnt chatter on boards. This is fact. We have no grasp on the true number of cases in the country currently .

We wont have a true grasp on how many have had it and are now immune until there is a test for that also. These figures needing to be as accurate as possible will help us in fighting this thing without a vaccine available .

Its not boards chatter.

If that's the truth and the backlog is now down to 11,000 the government has done a really good job of clearing it. It's meant to be totally cleared by the end of the week. https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0413/1130184-coronavirus-ireland/

Check out the numbers on worldometer: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Cupatae

average_runner wrote: »

Businesses will open in May. We cant stay in lockdown.

They ll have no choice if the lockdown is extended.