Relaxation of restrictions

lainey_d_123

martingriff wrote: »

Now in fairness that is a small small minority of people. What do you mean you can not exercise, can you not go for a bit of a walk or in my case push around in a wheelchair

Not really, no. I manage a quick walk at night time when the streets are quieter, but it's hardly comparable to being able to sit in your garden in the sun all day, drinking rosé, is it?

Of course this is much harder for some people compared to others. Anyone who has their own private outdoor space in London right now has basically won the lottery.

martingriff

KiKi III wrote: »

I am simplifying it Martin you’re right, because I’m trying to get across the difference between people who are using the phrase “this isn’t living” as a dramatic rhetorical statement, and the reality of those who have succumbed to this disease and are literally no longer living.

People with mental health issues are going to have a tough time of it, but thankfully these days there is an awful lot of help available over the phone and online.

But KiKi you realise your saying let them deal with themselves that can ring these numbers or check online. If everyone thought like that then that is not right. You can help them by ringing someone you know or things like that. I am thankful for my health however I can be mindful that there are far worse off to what I have and one liners like your does not help them. Actually it makes it worse. Its called compassion

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

Lainey, it’s not arbitrary- someone gasping for breath with a high fever in ICU is objectively in a much worse situation than someone who is feeling really depressed.

If the two people with the symptoms described above arrived at hospital at the same time doctors would no doubt treat the first patient first because the risk to their life is much more immediate.

That’s just reality.

Jesus Christ!! Who was ever talking about that?!

You said someone saying that this is no life is 'insulting' those who are sick with covid and their doctors, and I told you that was a ridiculous mentality, and now you're trying to talk about which one would be saved first in a hospital?



I can't work out if you do it on purpose, honestly.

martingriff

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Not really, no. I manage a quick walk at night time when the streets are quieter, but it's hardly comparable to being able to sit in your garden in the sun all day, drinking rosé, is it?

Of course this is much harder for some people compared to others. Anyone who has their own private outdoor space in London right now has basically won the lottery.

No its not like sunbathing but at least you can go outside and I say if you really think about it maybe at times during the day.

Jenbach110

LiquidZeb wrote: »

No, no don't you understand we can never do anything ever again. We all have to spend the rest of our lives hyperventilating under the bed hoping the big bad covid 19 doesn't get us. Sod the economy, sod the HSE and sod standard of living.

Thats the spirit

the kelt

alwald wrote: »

I am here to discuss and debate but I can't take a post seriously when you put words in my mouth or you take one sentence out of an entire post to twist the meaning of my entire post.

When do you want this return to normality?

Well then by all means don’t reply. I did quote your entire post but it’s your post so if that was your thinking at the time then fair enough.

As soon as is safely possible would be when I want a return to normality as you would have said previously would be my preference, I mean I’m sure that’s everyone’s preference at this stage.

But again to want that isn’t dangerous imho.

Cupatae

martingriff wrote: »

But KiKi you realise your saying let them deal with themselves that can ring these numbers or check online. If everyone thought like that then that is not right. You can help them by ringing someone you know or things like that. I am thankful for my health however I can be mindful that there are far worse off to what I have and one liners like your does not help them. Actually it makes it worse. Its called compassion

The fact that he/shes advocating staying and in a previous post, said "if 1000s were dying by suicide and i could something to stop it i would" indicates to me that there is plenty compassion but people willfully choose to ignore it.

In an attempt to burn the poster at the cross for not joining in on the pity party a select few posters have going.

KiKi III

martingriff wrote: »

But KiKi you realise your saying let them deal with themselves that can ring these numbers or check online. If everyone thought like that then that is not right. You can help them by ringing someone you know or things like that. I am thankful for my health however I can be mindful that there are far worse off to what I have and one liners like your does not help them. Actually it makes it worse. Its called compassion

Martin, what you might not have read earlier in the thread is that I do online counselling once a week myself (and I’m already looking forward to Wednesday’s session!) It’s not a cheap one liner, it’s something I’m very grateful for and it’s something I’d encourage for anyone who’s struggling.

What I don’t agree with is people saying “this isn’t living” because we are having a tough few weeks. 31 more people died yesterday from this virus. They are the ones who aren’t living.

LiquidZeb

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Thats the spirit

I was being sarcastic to display some of the nonsense I've seen on here. I was talking to someone on boards last night who seriously believed we'll be on lockdown as it stands for the next 18-24 months. When probed about how that's feasible when people will go ballistic and the world economy will be utterly devastated, I was met with claims of 'we'll have to get on with it'. Utterly mad.

the kelt

KiKi III wrote: »

Martin, what you might not have read earlier in the thread is that I do online counselling once a week myself (and I’m already looking forward to Wednesday’s session!) It’s not a cheap one liner, it’s something I’m very grateful for and it’s something I’d encourage for anyone who’s struggling.

What I don’t agree with is people saying “this isn’t living” because we are having a tough few weeks. 31 more people died yesterday from this virus. They are the ones who aren’t living.

Genuine question, in what area is your counselling? And have you noticed the difference in that counselling since all this kicked off?

If you can’t say fair enough.

martingriff

KiKi III wrote: »

Lainey, it’s not arbitrary- someone gasping for breath with a high fever in ICU is objectively in a much worse situation than someone who is feeling really depressed.

If the two people with the symptoms described above arrived at hospital at the same time doctors would no doubt treat the first patient first because the risk to their life is much more immediate.

That’s just reality.

Sorry but do you what depression is real depression is. It is not fun to watch someone who has it It can be a matter of life and death for some. You can't equate 1 to the other as if its black and white as if there is a hierarchy.

Jenbach110

Cupatae wrote: »

The fact that he/shes advocating staying and in a previous post, said "if 1000s were dying by suicide and i could something to stop it i would"

Id say easing of restrictions would help

KiKi III

martingriff wrote: »

Sorry but do you what depression is real depression is. It is not fun to watch someone who has it It can be a matter of life and death for some. You can't equate 1 to the other as if its black and white as if there is a hierarchy.

I suffer from depression. I know what it is. And what I said above is correct.

Jenbach110

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I was being sarcastic to display some of the nonsense I've seen on here. I was talking to someone on boards last night who seriously believed we'll be on lockdown as it stands for the next 18-24 months. When probed about how that's feasible when people will go ballistic and the world economy will be utterly devastated, I was met with claims of 'we'll have to get on with it'. Utterly mad.

I know I was responding with sarcasm!!

Your last point I think is due to fear.
People are so afraid of Covid they genuinely believe the economic depression will have far less effects on peoples quality of life.

LiquidZeb

Jenbach110 wrote: »

I know I was responding with sarcasm!!

Oh sorry, I misunderstood your response. Our sarcasm cancelled out!

Cupatae

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Id say easing of restrictions would help

I dunno more educated/intelligent people than you or i think a lock down is the best course of action.

KiKi III

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question, in what area is your counselling? And have you noticed the difference in that counselling since all this kicked off?

In the past I’ve done general talk therapy and while that helped in ways, I’m doing CBT now and it’s way better because it gives you actual tools to put into practice during the week. I find it much more practical and combines with some other stuff I’m doing (meditation, practicing gratitude, journaling) I’m holding up much better than I would have expected.

I still falter at times. I had a three hour argument on here the other day about something I don’t even care about that much but I just got sucked into it and I could only see that after - bad days can manifest in funny ways. But overall it’s definitely helping and I’d highly recommend it.

alwald

the kelt wrote: »

Well then by all means don’t reply. I did quote your entire post but it’s your post so if that was your thinking at the time then fair enough.

What was my thinking at the time as I feel you still don't understand it yet?

the kelt wrote: »

As soon as is safely possible would be when I want a return to normality as you would have said previously would be my preference, I mean I’m sure that’s everyone’s preference at this stage.

But again to want that isn’t dangerous imho.

What's the criteria for ensuring we got to the safety stage?

martingriff

KiKi III wrote: »

Martin, what you might not have read earlier in the thread is that I do online counselling once a week myself (and I’m already looking forward to Wednesday’s session!) It’s not a cheap one liner, it’s something I’m very grateful for and it’s something I’d encourage for anyone who’s struggling.

What I don’t agree with is people saying “this isn’t living” because we are having a tough few weeks. 31 more people died yesterday from this virus. They are the ones who aren’t living.

So what if you are doing online counselling does that make you able to know how everyone is. I have no idea if its a course or if it is because of something and out of respect I would not ask. But I also have had some counselling due to a bereavement and I would not for 1 minute think I know them.

Yes people have dies and it is tragic but we can also help those who may find it hard during these time. This your still breathing so suck it up is not could for anyone and make you not in a great light

lainey_d_123

KiKi III wrote: »

Martin, what you might not have read earlier in the thread is that I do online counselling once a week myself (and I’m already looking forward to Wednesday’s session!) It’s not a cheap one liner, it’s something I’m very grateful for and it’s something I’d encourage for anyone who’s struggling.

What I don’t agree with is people saying “this isn’t living” because we are having a tough few weeks. 31 more people died yesterday from this virus. They are the ones who aren’t living.

But that's not for you to decide! If someone is struggling to the point that they'd rather be dead than living in isolation, pain and uncertainty for months on end, it's not for you to tell them they don't have a problem! Just because some people are in ICU doesn't mean that nobody else has problems. People die every day of the year...do you go around telling people that they're not allowed to complain because at least they're not dead?!

KiKi III wrote: »

I suffer from depression. I know what it is. And what I said above is correct.

You can't possibly know what other people feel and how severe their depression is compared to yours.

KiKi III

martingriff wrote: »

So what if you are doing online counselling does that make you able to know how everyone is. I have no idea if its a course or if it is because of something and out of respect I would not ask. But I also have had some counselling due to a bereavement and I would not for 1 minute think I know them.

Yes people have dies and it is tragic but we can also help those who may find it hard during these time. This your still breathing so suck it up is not could for anyone and make you not in a great light

I’m not saying “suck it up”, I’m saying try to get a sense of perspective.

ShineOn7

For those who still think the restrictions are too much



https://twitter.com/i/status/1249693986769559552

Stheno

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So you think everyone living in London is well off?

You're living in fantasy land. There are families around here living about 7 people to a room and 3 families to a house sharing one kitchen and bathroom, dad working as a delivery rider and worrying about infecting the family and everyone else in the house.

I was supposed to be living here temporarily but then this happened, and now this is what I have.

There is no comparison between someone comfortable living in a nice home with their own space and garden and someone crammed into substandard, crowded accommodation with all the extra risks that entails.

Do you have somewhere to live in Ireland if you got a flight back?

retro:electro

KiKi III wrote: »

Lainey, it’s not arbitrary- someone gasping for breath with a high fever in ICU is objectively in a much worse situation than someone who is feeling really depressed.

If the two people with the symptoms described above arrived at hospital at the same time doctors would no doubt treat the first patient first because the risk to their life is much more immediate.

That’s just reality.

That’s an unfair comparison. Nobody “arrives at ICU” because they’re feeling depressed, but they may arrive at ICU as a consequence of their depression and an attempt made on their life. And in that case their condition would be taken every bit as serious as someone who had grave virus symptoms.

Tbh I don’t really even get where you’re going with the point above but I wanted to respond to this post because I felt it was a trivial comparison.

Cupatae

Some how the tread has got to a point of "Lift the lockdown because of depression" truly amazing to withness.

Jenbach110

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno more educated/intelligent people than you or i think a lock down is the best course of action.

All the intellegence in the world will struggle to implement the correct course of action when the measured data is so innaccurate.

Not until the exact infection/death rate is accurately measured, can it be decided whats the most effective approach to combat covid

martingriff

KiKi III wrote: »

I’m not saying “suck it up”, I’m saying try to get a sense of perspective.

BUT you are do you not see this you are saying you are living so you are good. Read through your comments for the last few pages and just take a moment and think about them

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You can't possibly know what other people feel and how severe their depression is compared to yours.

I haven’t claimed to. Someone said I didn’t know what it was to be depressed and I’m just letting them know that actually I do. I don’t assume my depression is comparable to anyone else’s.

s1ippy

Downlinz wrote: »

"Minister Harris cited modelling done by Professor Philip Nolan, which projected that this coming Sunday alone, there would have been 120,000 new cases of the virus, if no restrictive measures had been introduced.

If just partial mitigation had been done, by the end of May, the modelling suggested we would see around 70,000 new cases on one day."

Using the HSE's projection for partial mitigation during the peak compared to our current flattened curve figures and using the current death rate of around 3.5% it would change the daily deathrate from ~30 to 2450 which is far from an insignificant increase.

We could never test that many people, but there's nothing to say there aren't currently 70,000 people in Ireland with this. We have no figures for people in the community who aren't tested. We don't even have numbers for people who have come through this virus and are discharged from hospital.

Jenbach110

Cupatae wrote: »

Some how the tread has got to a point of "Lift the lockdown because of depression" truly amazing to withness.

Something is amazing to withness alright!