Relaxation of restrictions

lord quackinton

lord quackinton wrote: »

Good to see some good debate on here last few hours
As I have said previously I am still working, Own a home in rural tipp and have a few acres with it

Firstly I am not a socialist - I despise socialism
Secondly I am not a sentimental guy, many people here would probably despise me for my social conservatism
I am not a easy fella to like and I have a very bad temper and well able to back it up too

But I feel genuinely sorry for the thousands and thousands of young people who are going to lose their jobs, have pay cuts and will be taxed to pay for a lockdown they do not need
90% of those dead are over 65 , that’s a fact that cannot be just glossed over

Let those who are strong in body and in mind go back to work if they want
Those who don’t can go on benefits until the state tell them go back

Open it up and let’s get this country working again

You can wish it as much as you want, but your health policy ideas are irresponsible and frankly our economy is virtually dead in the water because of the global situation. Things will only start returning to a semblance of normality when the entire globe is returning from its lockdown.

And I imagine plenty simply care about the 90% over 65 and the 10% under it. Plus then you'd have all those healthcare workers who would face increased risks as well. Emergency workers in New York are sleeping in their cars for fear of spreading it to their families.

GazzaL

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So basic you've yet to answer the question. Maybe you need to rereg. You've no credibility left at this stage.

I've answered every question asked of me. If people don't like the answer and want to pretend otherwise, good luck to them, but they're the ones with no credibility.

Jenbach110

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Very wrong.

Ok

s1ippy

Jenbach110 wrote: »

What is with this narrative of embracing a life with no joy?

Im really struggling to grasp that people exist who would easily accept this

Well there you go, you've just indicated to me that your life has no joy. That is depressing. Why don't you try and use this time to develop interests and hobbies you can become passionate about? Or just have a lot of sex? Anything except fling yourself into the path of harms way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCSeIY0xdo

"You the people have the power to make life free and beautiful to make this life a wonderful adventure."
Even with the lockdown, the greatest limitations on your happiness is created by your own perception.

Spencer Brown

This thread has gone to the dogs, constant bickering with very little actual content.

Captain_Crash

STB. wrote: »

What you shouldn't do is post on subjects you know nothing about.


You are as has been described in several posts living in cuckoo land.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Is it not a fair question tho? Don’t the HSE guidelines say if you get covid you self isolate for 14 days? I’d presume there is a buffer put in place with regards to how quickly it takes to pass trough your system so it’s safe to say 14 days after a positive test your all good again!

So if we had 5000 cases two weeks ago, they should all be better now no?

(I think I read that from the time symptoms show it’s gone in an ave of 7 days)

Professor Moriarty

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Ok

That's twice you've made up numbers. Not a good look.

easypazz

STB. wrote: »

What you shouldn't do is post on subjects you know nothing about.


You are as has been described in several posts living in cuckoo land.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I know we don't have 10247 active cases.

And so do you.

easypazz

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Is it not a fair question tho? Don’t the HSE guidelines say if you get covid you self isolate for 14 days? I’d presume there is a buffer put in place with regards to how quickly it takes to pass trough your system so it’s safe to say 14 days after a positive test your all good again!

So if we had 5000 cases two weeks ago, they should all be better now no?

(I think I read that from the time symptoms show it’s gone in an ave of 7 days)

He knows all that but won't admit it.

hmmm

These restrictions should only exist as long as they are medically required, and need to balance the economic impact. Some people seem to think that the restrictions are inherently good in themselves, and are outdoing each other to pile on more and more restrictions.

I appreciate at the moment the scientists are working to understand more about the virus, and there's a lot we don't know. If it was the case (as perhaps seems likely) that there is minimal chance of viruses being passed on outdoors, then most construction sites should open. If (as seems the case) that it spreads like wildfire indoors in cramped places, Churches, Pubs etc will need to stay closed. Similarly it seems likely that anyone who can work from home should be told to do so, with people strongly discouraged from taking public transport. On the other hand, a manufacturing or food plant with adequate space and ventilation should be able to open. Most retail shops should be able to open if they limit the number of customers inside.

The country and the people involved in these businesses need to know whether they can get back to work. There's nothing nice for most people about lying on the couch not working - people don't have the luxury of nice public-sector guaranteed jobs, they need to get back to work to provide for their families future.

Jenbach110

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's twice you've made up numbers. Not a good look.

15million of Italians are over 65
600,000 are over 65 here

Professor Moriarty

GazzaL wrote: »

I've answered every question asked of me. If people don't like the answer and want to pretend otherwise, good luck to them, but they're the ones with no credibility.

I'll ask again. You must have missed it the first time. When do you want restrictions lifted? Which restrictions?

AdamD

I personally enjoy the generational comparisons, particularly versus WW2 (they're all pretty much dead and this country wasn't involved).

The idea that one generation is drastically tougher than another is just arrogant and laughable

KiKi III

Jenbach110 wrote: »

A virus that is primarily effecting a particular age group will have far more implications in a country 20 times more popultated in that age group

23% of Italy’s population is over 65 https://www.statista.com/statistics/785104/elderly-population-in-italy/

13% of Ireland’s population is over 65
https://www.statista.com/statistics/376908/age-structure-in-ireland/

So I don’t know where you got the idea that Italy has 20 times more old people. The difference is 10%

growleaves

Cupatae wrote: »

Well there it is folks, "EVERYTHING WAS OPEN IN THE BLITZ THEREFOR ALL RESTRICTIONS ARE NOW LIFTED GG"

Do you have some point you'd like to make?

"Saving lives" isn't the automatic and unquestionable response to each and every deadly crisis.

Hiding in air raid shelters all of the time would have hurt morale too much while WWII was ongoing so it wasn't even considered.

Jenbach110

s1ippy wrote: »

Well there you go, you've just indicated to me that your life has no joy. That is depressing. Why don't you try and use this time to develop interests and hobbies you can become passionate about? Or just have a lot of sex? Anything except fling yourself into the path of harms way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCSeIY0xdo

"You the people have the power to make life free and beautiful to make this life a wonderful adventure."
Even with the lockdown, the greatest limitations on your happiness is created by your own perception.

I was replying to a poster who suggested the new normal would mean people would not be able to do what they enjoy in future

Jenbach110

KiKi III wrote: »

23% of Italy’s population is over 65 https://www.statista.com/statistics/785104/elderly-population-in-italy/

13% of Ireland’s population is over 65
https://www.statista.com/statistics/376908/age-structure-in-ireland/

So I don’t know where you got the idea that Italy has 20 times more old people. The difference is 10%

Kiki you have an unbelievable inability to understand percentages.

15m vs 637k

Its 23 times more popultated

Professor Moriarty

Jenbach110 wrote: »

15million of Italians are over 65
600,000 are over 65 here

13 million. 700k.

KiKi III

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Kiki you have an unbelive inability to understand percentages.

15m vs 600k

I’m embarrassed for you. You have this so, so wrong and you’re so confident.

Morto.

alwald

growleaves wrote: »

Hiding in air raid shelters all of the time would have hurt morale too much while WWII was ongoing so it wasn't even considered.

What's the link between a war and a virus? You fight an enemy during the war but you avoid a virus during a pandemic. Your analogy is idiotic.

STB.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Is it not a fair question tho? Don’t the HSE guidelines say if you get covid you self isolate for 14 days? I’d presume there is a buffer put in place with regards to how quickly it takes to pass trough your system so it’s safe to say 14 days after a positive test your all good again!

So if we had 5000 cases two weeks ago, they should all be better now no?

(I think I read that from the time symptoms show it’s gone in an ave of 7 days)

You are all good again ? Good god. Its unknown how you are afterwards. You certainly are not immune.

The 14 days is so you wont overwhelm the testing system. There are cases of incubation periods of 28 days.

Regardless, you are missing the point, the idea of the testing regime is to identify those infected and isolate them and contact trace anyone they have been in touch with to further stop the spread. If you don't do that in good time your public health system could fail and because of the 20% that will not get mild symptoms, a large percentage will require ICU. Our ICU beds capacity is 50 per million so we have a low threshold.

ixoy

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Kiki you have an unbelievable inability to understand percentages.

15m vs 637k

Its 23 times more popultated

They're absolute figures there, not percentages...

The 13% vs 23% is actually the important percentage figure here.

Professor Moriarty

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Kiki you have an unbelievable inability to understand percentages.

15m vs 637k

Its 23 times more popultated

You're missing the point but let's run with your figures. Italy has 23 times more people over 65. So?

Touchee

s1ippy wrote: »

While I understand that people want to get back to normality, the level at which people want to risk their lives in here is incredible. You know you're not just going to resume your old life? You're eventually going to be slaving dawn to dusk again, but without even the "perk" of being able to do the things you enjoy. What on earth is the rush? Do you hate your life so much, is work your only fulfillment?

No, but we need to work in order to be paid so we can buy food and pay the bills!

Jenbach110

KiKi III wrote: »

I’m embarrassed for you. You have this so, so wrong and you’re so confident.

Morto.

Kiki Im wrong. I dont know what Ive done.

Could you show me how it works?

GazzaL

KiKi III wrote: »

23% of Italy’s population is over 65 https://www.statista.com/statistics/785104/elderly-population-in-italy/

13% of Ireland’s population is over 65
https://www.statista.com/statistics/376908/age-structure-in-ireland/

So I don’t know where you got the idea that Italy has 20 times more old people. The difference is 10%

In terms of actual numbers of people. 23% of 60.36m is approx. 20 times more people than 13% of 4.9m.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'll ask again. You must have missed it the first time. When do you want restrictions lifted? Which restrictions?

We need to get the young, fit and healthy people back to work in a safe manner. We also need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, particular in nursing home settings, which as evidenced in Ireland, Italy, Spain, France and Belgium, 42-57% of deaths from the virus appear to have occured in nursing homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...om-eu-suggests Whatever PPE needed to work there, even if that means full hazmat suits, and whatever cleaning/hygiene products required also. Similarly, social distancing and extra precautions, and financial support, will be required for elderly and vulnerable people, people with underlying health conditions.

STB.

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Kiki you have an unbelievable inability to understand percentages.

15m vs 637k

Its 23 times more popultated

Do you understand difference in ICU capacity between countries ?


Our ICU capacity is what Lombardy's was at the start of their cases.

growleaves

What's the link between a war and a virus? You fight an enemy during the war but you avoid a virus during a pandemic. Your analogy is idiotic.

I wasn't making an analogy between a war and a virus.

Another posted mentioned the Blitz and I wanted to talk about it because it was a situation which illustrates, as I said, that "saving lives" is not an over-riding priority in each and every situation.

There is also quality of life and the human spirit and the fact that these things cannot be expressed in statistical terms or don't come under the purview of scientific experts does not mean that they can, or will, be considered totally null for all time.

Again, I'm thinking moreso of the long term. There was an item in a UK newspaper the other day where some expert called for restrictions for the next four years.

Elmer Blooker

alwald wrote: »

So restrictions were placed in 1919 but it wasn't too late as it saved millions of lives. Glad to see you back tracking from your first reply and acknowledge that restrictions back then were seen as the only way to solve the problem and they worked.

By 1919 the virus had run its course and had mutated to become less lethal so the restrictions after the war ended didn't really change anything.
This virus will run its course too just like that 'aussie' flu in the winter of 2017-18 did.

STB.

easypazz wrote: »

I know we don't have 10247 active cases.

And so do you.

Refusing to accept the numbers now.

Did you see the recovery figure in there. Its very low isn't it. Why do you think that is ?

Clearly you haven't a breeze whats going on. Don't respond to me again please.