Relaxation of restrictions

patnor1011

AdamD wrote: »

We have a domestic economy...

No, we do not.

AdamD wrote: »

America and the rest of the world are utterly irrelevant to most Irish SMEs. Having them not go to the wall matters.

So 2008 did not happened? It was not started with collapse of just one US bank followed by second one?

PTH2009

I imagine the date for pubs etc opening will be released a week or 2 in advance so they can have staff/stock etc sorted

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who stays in a bare lifeless and empty pub? its the social side of course that attracts people. Nothing stopping people buying from off licences at the moment (for much cheaper too)

Even an apparently empty pub provides social interaction that people otherwise might not get. Maybe not the kind of socialising that you want/ need.

El_Duderino 09

castletownman wrote: »

Maybe have senior citizen hours in a pub, like they do in supermarkets at the minute. Except from say 1-5. Most ould lads go in during the afternoon anyway and are home for the dinner, and very few would be in a pub when the younger crowd start taking up room anyway.

I can see some pubs that have the capacity designating their lounge section for the older clientele though.

Sure. And they could put that in with the guidance about how seniors should cocoon and only leave the house when absolutely necessary like getting food, medicine and getting a few jars down the pub with the other seniors,

It would be a good idea if you were trying to help seniors get the disease. Maybe the could extend it to all venerable people so they can meet up and spread the virus amongst them selves

Pubs aren't essential and should say closed until this whole thing is over. Vulnerable people (including senior citizens) should cocoon until this whole thing is over. The end.

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Belgium using the August 31st date also with regards to mass gatherings and set to follow a pretty similar plan as the germans.
I wonder did the EU provide the plan in terms of dates given the comments made this morning about the EU bloc opening as one

Yes the EU has issued guide lines for easing up of instructions.

El_Duderino 09

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Life will go back to some sort of normality before a vaccine that's for sure, nobody can put dates on it, but pubs etc wont be closed until this is all over, not a chance.

The LVA will put pressure for measures to be put in place for them to open, publicans themselves are preparing to open at some point over the summer.

As for wishful thinking, the social aspect of life was addressed by WHO yesterday and they've even said we'll have to essentially get on with it with an increased social responsibility, if you've a cough, a sniffle whatever, then you dont go to work and you dont go to social gatherings.

I dont think football stadiums etc will see fans in them for 6 months or more but there is ways to limit capacity in bars etc.

OK. You can't put a date on it but can you explain the logic behind it? Why would life go bat to normal (with distancing) before a vaccine? Why not just do it now?

I'll tell you why I think it is but I'd like to actually hear your thoughts.

I think it's because we have to keep transmissions below the health service ability to deal with the most acute cases. Otherwise you get situations like Spain and Italy. They will relax and tighten restrictions to keep economic activity going but not allow the health service to be overrun. Pubs are miles away from opening because they are way down the list of essential businesses and would be great at spreading the virus.

So, what do you think will happen? What's the actual logic behind the approach you think we'll take?

niallo27

I dont think people realise things have already changed, if the lockdown is relaxed to a degree people will still social distance, they will still be terrified of anyone that has a cough, no shaking hands or hugging. This idea that if restrictions are relaxed that we will all go back to our old habits just wont happen.

El_Duderino 09

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Accepted what exactly?? Governments and experts have all started to indicate they'll reopen things gradually. They've all accepted people can't stay in lockdown it's not possible.

Theres an acceptance even at international level from the WHO that the world cant stand still until theres a vaccine and its not even a sure thing at the moment that there will be.

I think people haven't accepted the length of time this thing will take to resolve. Governments are stringing it along by a couple of weeks at a time but we're talking a time period along the line of years, not weeks or months.

Sure the world can't stand still. We have to be proactive about getting herd Immunity by keeping transmission at the max level where the health service can cope with the acute cases. The higher the transmission level the quicker we get herd Immunity but it's important that the health service can cope.

Meanwhile we work on an antibody test, and allow those who are immune, more freedom to go out and work. Then eventually we will reach herd Immunity through either a vaccine or through at least 2/3 of the population getting the disease. Then things can get back towards normal.

Either case will probably take a couple of years and the vulnerable will need to cocoon for the duration.

Irish_peppa

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont think people realise things have already changed, if the lockdown is relaxed to a degree people will still social distance, they will still be terrified of anyone that has a cough, no shaking hands or hugging. This idea that if restrictions are relaxed that we will all go back to our old habits just wont happen.

Where do Gyms stand in all this, jesus I dont think I would trust people properly wiping down equipment after use. Can you realistically open gyms during this covid pandemic

rusty the athlete

niallo27 wrote: »

if the lockdown is relaxed to a degree people will still social distance .

We will become like the Swedes and Sweden where physical distancing is the default!

niallo27

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Where do Gyms stand in all this, jesus I dont think I would trust people properly wiping down equipment after use. Can you realistically open gyms during this covid pandemic

No I would not go near them in fairness.

rusty the athlete

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Where do Gyms stand in all this, jesus I dont think I would trust people properly wiping down equipment after use. Can you realistically open gyms during this covid pandemic

I think it pretty unlikely they will open while there is any sniff of the virus around. They were the first to close, mine shut down before the pubs and I'm sure they will be the last to open. Have to make do with walking and cycling in the meantime.

El_Duderino 09

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is it the social side or the drink side that you think people miss from the pub?

Drink side - nothing stopping pubs from doing a delivery service as it stands.

The social side mostly.

The social side of life is important so we're going to have to find new ways to socialise. Zoom is a thing now. How many conversations have happened along the lines of: OK click that box, nana. With the mouse. The thing in your hand. With left button on the mouse. OK. Now click the link, it's the blue text in the ail I sent you".

I've seen my Mrs, very patiently, talk her parents through the procedure for zoom and making group WhatsApp video calls. So they can do them with us but also so they can do them with their family.

I have a zoom meeting withy friends every Friday. Meet up, have a quiz and chat and get hammered.

Socialising is changing. People are adapting. The pub is non essential and people might as well get used to the idea.

I see why the government is stringing it along by a couple of weeks at a time. Some people might freak out if they said it will likely take years.

El_Duderino 09

growleaves wrote: »

Entry to pubs is already often tightly controlled by bouncers, so 'mobbing' won't be a problem.

Could pubs even cover costs if everyone has to stay 2m apart? Would they be able to fit enough people in and sell enough drink? Plus now they all have to pay door staff to monitor the numbers let people in.

How much of their weekly profit do pubs make from having people 2m apart and how much do they make on Friday and Saturday night when it's packed?

Please, people. Think logically about this.

stephenjmcd

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. You can't put a date on it but can you explain the logic behind it? Why would life go bat to normal (with distancing) before a vaccine? Why not just do it now?

I'll tell you why I think it is but I'd like to actually hear your thoughts.

I think it's because we have to keep transmissions below the health service ability to deal with the most acute cases. Otherwise you get situations like Spain and Italy. They will relax and tighten restrictions to keep economic activity going but not allow the health service to be overrun. Pubs are miles away from opening because they are way down the list of essential businesses and would be great at spreading the virus.

So, what do you think will happen? What's the actual logic behind the approach you think we'll take?

To answer your question in bold, I've listened to what the WHO have said in recent days and multiple governments world wide and the opinion most definitely seems to now be shifting towards things going back to a "normal" at some point before a vaccine. When i say normal that includes social distancing and everything that goes with it, I think people will be more aware of the people around them now, there's not going to be shaking hands, hugging etc that's the new norm. People aren't going to revert to their previous ways, I certainly wont. Here's a link to what Dr David Nabarro from the WHO said, https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1250005098299785223 , what he said during the interview also stands for social interaction that these can and must resume before a vaccine, we're at least 18 months away from a potential vaccine and it might not even work.

I've already given my opinion on what i think will happen and that's following the WHO and EU guidelines on lifting restrictions, you may not like the guidelines or even follow them but that's what i think will happen in this country, whatever the guidelines say and based off the experience of other EU countries is what the gov here will do.

And when the pubs do re-open will I go into one ? Yes I will, I'll go in have a meal & have a drink and support local businesses trying to get back on their feet. You don't have to go into them when they do re-open.

ELM327

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont think people realise things have already changed, if the lockdown is relaxed to a degree people will still social distance, they will still be terrified of anyone that has a cough, no shaking hands or hugging. This idea that if restrictions are relaxed that we will all go back to our old habits just wont happen.

That's the rational viewpoint
But most people are stupid by nature, and we'd be back to normal-ish within weeks.

pgj2015

zoom sounds very lame. i will never do that. getting drunk with friends who arent even in the same room? come on what have ye being reduced to?

robinph

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Where do Gyms stand in all this, jesus I dont think I would trust people properly wiping down equipment after use. Can you realistically open gyms during this covid pandemic

They are surely a safer environment than a pub or cafe where people are in close proximity chatting with each other and breathing in each others direction.

In a gym everyone is there doing their own thing, everyone using some gym equipment is socially distanced by the fact that they are using the equipment. A bunch of people next to each other on a load of treadmills or bikes are all facing the same way and not breathing on each other.

Maybe they need to move the equipment further apart or only use every other bike/ treadmill/ etc just to make people feel safer, but where is the risk otherwise if nobody is actually interacting with anyone else?

ELM327

pgj2015 wrote: »

zoom sounds very lame. i will never do that. getting drunk with friends who arent even in the same room? come on what have ye being reduced to?

I do it most evenings.
Minus the friends, and the zoom of course.

El_Duderino 09

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Where do Gyms stand in all this, jesus I dont think I would trust people properly wiping down equipment after use. Can you realistically open gyms during this covid pandemic

I would trust people to wipe down equipment. Not before the pandemic but afterwards I think it will be the norm. You're told to do it on entry, there are signs telling you to do it, you see everyone else do it, you see someone get told off for forgetting to do it and then you just do it.

But gyms are also miles down the list of essential businesses. Unless we can test for Immunity to the disease and give those people a "passport" of sorts, and only allow in those who have proof of Immunity. Other than that, gyms won't be open for a long while yet.

El_Duderino 09

pgj2015 wrote: »

zoom sounds very lame. i will never do that. getting drunk with friends who arent even in the same room? come on what have ye being reduced to?

It's not the same but it's much better than nothing. It was awkward the first time but now it's the norm. If you're useless on the phone, then it might not be much use to you.

I don't see it as being reduced. Not seeing friends at all would be reduced. How's your social life during all this? How are you adapting?

Multipass

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think people haven't accepted the length of time this thing will take to resolve. Governments are stringing it along by a couple of weeks at a time but we're talking a time period along the line of years, not weeks or months.

Sure the world can't stand still. We have to be proactive about getting herd Immunity by keeping transmission at the max level where the health service can cope with the acute cases. The higher the transmission level the quicker we get herd Immunity but it's important that the health service can cope.

Meanwhile we work on an antibody test, and allow those who are immune, more freedom to go out and work. Then eventually we will reach herd Immunity through either a vaccine or through at least 2/3 of the population getting the disease. Then things can get back towards normal.

Either case will probably take a couple of years and the vulnerable will need to cocoon for the duration.

Cocoon for a couple of years? Not going to happen, may as well get the virus and die. Not all elderly people sit around and drink tea. They will not be imprisoned for years.

stephenjmcd

robinph wrote: »

They are surely a safer environment than a pub or cafe where people are in close proximity chatting with each other and breathing in each others direction.

In a gym everyone is there doing their own thing, everyone using some gym equipment is socially distanced by the fact that they are using the equipment. A bunch of people next to each other on a load of treadmills or bikes are all facing the same way and not breathing on each other.

Maybe they need to move the equipment further apart or only use every other bike/ treadmill/ etc just to make people feel safer, but where is the risk otherwise if nobody is actually interacting with anyone else?

If everyone did clean the equipment after them, along with staff regularly cleaning i wouldn't have an issue with using the gym. I always wipe down the equipment after use but I've seen plenty who don't. Would imagine that'll change after this and if I saw someone not cleaning it after I'd say it to them 100%

El_Duderino 09

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To answer your question in bold, I've listened to what the WHO have said in recent days and multiple governments world wide and the opinion most definitely seems to now be shifting towards things going back to a "normal" at some point before a vaccine. When i say normal that includes social distancing and everything that goes with it, I think people will be more aware of the people around them now, there's not going to be shaking hands, hugging etc that's the new norm. People aren't going to revert to their previous ways, I certainly wont. Here's a link to what Dr David Nabarro from the WHO said, https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1250005098299785223 , what he said during the interview also stands for social interaction that these can and must resume before a vaccine, we're at least 18 months away from a potential vaccine and it might not even work.

I've already given my opinion on what i think will happen and that's following the WHO and EU guidelines on lifting restrictions, you may not like the guidelines or even follow them but that's what i think will happen in this country, whatever the guidelines say and based off the experience of other EU countries is what the gov here will do.

And when the pubs do re-open will I go into one ? Yes I will, I'll go in have a meal & have a drink and support local businesses trying to get back on their feet. You don't have to go into them when they do re-open.

OK. And do you think they will balance the level of transmissions to make sure the health service can cope, using tightening an loosening restrictions to keep transmissions to control transmission levels? That's really the crux of my point and the question I was asking.

El_Duderino 09

Multipass wrote: »

Cocoon for a couple of years? Not going to happen, may as well get the virus and die. Not all elderly people sit around and drink tea. They will not be imprisoned for years.

Vulnerable people, not just elderly people.

And yes they have the choice to go out and get the virus and get sick and die. Cocooning is voluntary now.

So yes, cocooning for the vulnerable until this thing is over.

Why do you think they should cocoon now but not in 6 months time or 12 if there is no vaccine (which there almost certainly won't be)?

pgj2015

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's not the same but it's much better than nothing. It was awkward the first time but now it's the norm. If you're useless on the phone, then it might not be much use to you.

I don't see it as being reduced. Not seeing friends at all would be reduced. How's your social life during all this? How are you adapting?

i can chat away on the phone for hours with friends but seeing them on zoom i just wouldnt be into. my social life now? i just text and call, dont see any friends at the moment. im used to that anyway, it doesnt bother me, i can go a few months without seeing my friends and am ok with that.

am missing going to soccer matches, gigs though.

El_Duderino 09

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If everyone did clean the equipment after them, along with staff regularly cleaning i wouldn't have an issue with using the gym. I always wipe down the equipment after use but I've seen plenty who don't. Would imagine that'll change after this and if I saw someone not cleaning it after I'd say it to them 100%

Yeah people have changed their behaviour. Wiping down gym equipment would be an easy change. And like you say, gym users would self police. But gyms aren't essential so I wouldn't expect the to open until the thing is under control.

lainey_d_123

Dickie10 wrote: »

dont like to say told you so but .......

personal responsibility will come into play, people will be sick and die just hopefully not all at once. i was talking to five lads that were in cheltenham , they all believe they got it some had a fever for half a day and hard to breath other just felt a bit groggy , none went to hospital just took parecetomol and self isolated

Typical. The selfish c*nts who took the risk just felt a bit groggy. I wonder how many people they infected who became seriously ill or even died.

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont think people realise things have already changed, if the lockdown is relaxed to a degree people will still social distance, they will still be terrified of anyone that has a cough, no shaking hands or hugging. This idea that if restrictions are relaxed that we will all go back to our old habits just wont happen.

Good, tbh. As an OCD sufferer, one silver lining in all this is that it might stop people being so goddamn disgusting. I've spent years sanitising my hands after interacting with people doing vile things like licking their fingers before reaching for a bag to put my food in, offering me their gross sweaty palm to shake hands or sneezing into their hand and then touching shared keyboards and equipment. The average person is absolutely disgusting with little knowledge of hygiene and I'd be delighted to see that change. If I never had to shake another hand again it wouldn't be a moment too soon.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Could pubs even cover costs if everyone has to stay 2m apart? Would they be able to fit enough people in and sell enough drink? Plus now they all have to pay door staff to monitor the numbers let people in.

How much of their weekly profit do pubs make from having people 2m apart and how much do they make on Friday and Saturday night when it's packed?

Please, people. Think logically about this.

Yep, it's doubtful. It wouldn't be worth them paying all the staff if they had so few customers. The only way I could see it working is if they had table service, like on the continent, and drinks prices were increased to make up for the loss of custom, but I can't see it being profitable. I could see maaaybe some of the gastro pubs around here making it mandatory to order food rather than just drinks to increase the spend per head, but it all seems quite improbable.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. And do you think they will balance the level of transmissions to make sure the health service can cope, using tightening an loosening restrictions to keep transmissions to control transmission levels? That's really the crux of my point and the question I was asking.

They will have to, In Ireland as soon as they ICU are heading towards a % of full capacity we'll be back to current lockdown again.

They hope that once the transmission rate falls to under 1 that social distancing etc will keep the situation controlled. As you say and as I said yesterday, there'll be no pubs open for ages, unless they are all seated food style restaurant pubs.

stephenjmcd

pgj2015 wrote: »

i can chat away on the phone for hours with friends but seeing them on zoom i just wouldnt be into. my social life now? i just text and call, dont see any friends at the moment. im used to that anyway, it doesnt bother me, i can go a few months without seeing my friends and am ok with that.

am missing going to soccer matches, gigs though.

Same as myself, it's the going to football matches or GAA matches that I'm missing the most.