Relaxation of restrictions

El_Duderino 09

pgj2015 wrote: »

i can chat away on the phone for hours with friends but seeing them on zoom i just wouldnt be into. my social life now? i just text and call, dont see any friends at the moment. im used to that anyway, it doesnt bother me, i can go a few months without seeing my friends and am ok with that.

am missing going to soccer matches, gigs though.

Yeah well, most people have friends an see them regularly. I'm.one of those people and I look forward to seeing friends regularly. And now I look forward to the Zoom Chats every weekend. Likewise with family.

I'm having dinner with friends over zoom tonight! Its a bit of fun. It's grand for you if you don't need much social interaction. But I think it's fairly well established that most (not all) humans like regular socialising.

growleaves

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Could pubs even cover costs if everyone has to stay 2m apart? Would they be able to fit enough people in and sell enough drink? Plus now they all have to pay door staff to monitor the numbers let people in.

How much of their weekly profit do pubs make from having people 2m apart and how much do they make on Friday and Saturday night when it's packed?

Please, people. Think logically about this.

No idea.

They could order less supplies, pay less bar staff etc. Cut overheads in general. Some of these pubs have to pay rent either way.

Are we supposed to accept that a reconstructed business model is impractical, can't possibly work - yet a years-long freeze of business and mass segregation is so obviously practical that its foolish to even think otherwise?

That's what I'm getting from your posts.

The development of a vaccine isn't even guaranteed so maybe some outside-the-box thinking is called for?

brutes1

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0415/1130727-covid-19-restrictions-challenged-in-high-court/

Challenge to restrictions

Several articles in main press last few days looking for relaxing of same

is_that_so

brutes1 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0415/1130727-covid-19-restrictions-challenged-in-high-court/

Challenge to restrictions

Several articles in main press last few days looking for relaxing of same

There's a thread on it.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058070384

El_Duderino 09

Augeo wrote: »

They will have to, In Ireland as soon as they ICU are heading towards a % of full capacity we'll be back to current lockdown again.

They hope that once the transmission rate falls to under 1 that social distancing etc will keep the situation controlled. As you say and as I said yesterday, there'll be no pubs open for ages, unless they are all seated food style restaurant pubs.

Yeah the transmission rates have been Important up to now. Getting transmission rates down was very important in the beginning. But now it will become more about transmission level. Keeping the transmission level (number of weekly transmissions) stable at the number ICU can deal with, while also enabling economic activity.

Ace2007

brutes1 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0415/1130727-covid-19-restrictions-challenged-in-high-court/

Challenge to restrictions

Several articles in main press last few days looking for relaxing of same

It's all well looking for relaxing of measures, but when the ICU beds and hospitals come overrun, what do you do then?

If you think about the current situation - there are people who probably need to be in a hospital/ICU bed that aren't getting in, so the numbers are lower than maybe they should be.

stephenjmcd

brutes1 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0415/1130727-covid-19-restrictions-challenged-in-high-court/

Challenge to restrictions

Several articles in main press last few days looking for relaxing of same

Yeah that case won't do anything, shes a head banger as it is. Theres a thread on it.

lainey_d_123

growleaves wrote: »

No idea.

They could order less supplies, pay less bar staff etc. Cut overheads in general. Some of these pubs have to pay rent either way.

Are we supposed to accept that a reconstructed business model is impractical, can't possibly work - yet a years-long freeze of business and mass segregation is so obviously practical that its foolish to even think otherwise?

That's what I'm getting from your posts.

The development of a vaccine isn't even guaranteed so maybe some outside-the-box thinking is called for?

A lot of pubs aren't that profitable at the best of times and end up closing, so how are they going to manage with 1/5 of the customers? Only way I can see is if they become food based, offering takeaway pub grub/Sunday roasts and limited pre-booked seating inside. A lot of pubs here in London are a bit like that anyway - people largely going for the food and just having one or two drinks, but not sure it would work in Ireland.

El_Duderino 09

growleaves wrote: »

No idea.

They could order less supplies, pay less bar staff etc. Cut overheads in general. Some of these pubs have to pay rent either way.

Are we supposed to accept that a reconstructed business model is impractical, can't possibly work - yet a years-long freeze of business and mass segregation is so obviously practical that its foolish to even think otherwise?

That's what I'm getting from your posts.

The development of a vaccine isn't even guaranteed so maybe some outside-the-box thinking is called for?

The outside the box thinking is twofold:

1.to achieve herd Immunity, safely and without a vaccine.

2. To realise this thing isn't going to be solved in weeks or months and that payments like rent and mortgages need to either be stopped or government needs to pay them or the least preferred option is to let all those businesses go bust.

Herd Immunity without a vaccine means keeping transmissions as high as possible but at or below the capacity of the health service.

Are you proposing reopening things and keeping transmissions at or below the capacity of the health service or are you considering the health service at all and pretending it isn't an important factor?

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

................


Good, tbh. As an OCD sufferer, one silver lining in all this is that it might stop people being so goddamn disgusting. I've spent years sanitising my hands after interacting with people doing vile things like licking their fingers before reaching for a bag to put my food in, offering me their gross sweaty palm to shake hands or sneezing into their hand and then touching shared keyboards and equipment. The average person is absolutely disgusting with little knowledge of hygiene and I'd be delighted to see that change. If I never had to shake another hand again it wouldn't be a moment too soon. .................

The OCD is largely your problem there.

Henry Ford III

https://www.newstalk.com/news/harris-ireland-not-yet-stage-begin-reduction-covid-19-measures-1000545?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1586977416

Thread. We aren't even close to relaxing anything.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

............considering the health service at all and pretending it isn't an important factor?

Some folk seem to be focusing on "lets get things back to normal" as "only the old are dying and they'd die anyway".
A truly disgusting view IMO, largely ignorant as well of course as they are only worried about their property value and income level and aren't at all considering the bigger picture.

Ace2007

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

2. To realise this thing isn't going to be solved in weeks or months and that payments like rent and mortgages need to either be stopped or government needs to pay them or the least preferred option is to let all those businesses go bust.

On the rent/mortgage front, do you not have to have a personal responsibility yourself, and be seen to be able to pay 2/3 months worth, before looking for help from the government?

Even after the crash in 08, are people still choosing to live week to week?

pgj2015

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Same as myself, it's the going to football matches or GAA matches that I'm missing the most.

it is the 5 a side i miss the most.

i wonder when will we be able to do that again?

El_Duderino 09

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah that case won't do anything, shes a head banger as it is. Theres a thread on it.

It's also classic behaviour for John Waters. Representing themselves is just pure and utter attention seeking and a waste of time. Sure he's into the, coronavirus as a cover for 5G, conspiracy theory. He might have been an interesting thinker back in his day, now he's just a headbanger and an attention seeker.

pgj2015

Henry Ford III wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/harris-ireland-not-yet-stage-begin-reduction-covid-19-measures-1000545?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1586977416

Thread. We aren't even close to relaxing anything.

:pac: sure he changes his mind every day.

grindle

brutes1 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0415/1130727-covid-19-restrictions-challenged-in-high-court/

Challenge to restrictions

John Waters and Gemma O'Doherty

They should overcome their mental challenges before tackling our restriction challenges.

ixoy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/harris-ireland-not-yet-stage-begin-reduction-covid-19-measures-1000545?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1586977416

Thread. We aren't even close to relaxing anything.

Did he say that in the interview? The synopsis doesn't seem to back that up. He's saying we're not ready right now - true - but nowhere in the text is "we're not even close to relaxing anything" and in fact he's talking about looking at the general EU guidelines.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

On the rent/mortgage front, do you not have to have a personal responsibility yourself, and be seen to be able to pay 2/3 months worth, before looking for help from the government?

.........

The banks are facilitating mortgage payment breaks. The full amount will still be paid off via increased payments in the future or over an extended term. The banks can sell mortgage off in years to come to what folk refer to as vulture funds etc if folk take the p1ss longterm.

Rents are messier as folk will I've little doubt take the absolute p1ss.

is_that_so

pgj2015 wrote: »

:pac: sure he changes his mind every day.

What has he changed since yesterday? It's been the same message from him, NEPHT, HSE and CMO all along.

fwiw in the area I live I've seen a slow but gradual increase in groups of friends standing chatting without observing what I would consider social distancing. It is very hard to police this and it is going to happen naturally as the 'lockdown' continues. The next step will be people deciding it is no harm to visit relatives and friends for a chat around the kitchen table.

I don't have an answer but whatever we do needs to take human nature into account to some extent. There's theory and reality.

pgj2015

is_that_so wrote: »

What has he changed since yesterday? It's been the same message from him, NEPHT, HSE and CMO all along.

The likes of harris hasnt a clue what he is at. he will be saying something completely different tomorrow morning.

El_Duderino 09

Ace2007 wrote: »

On the rent/mortgage front, do you not have to have a personal responsibility yourself, and be seen to be able to pay 2/3 months worth, before looking for help from the government?

Even after the crash in 08, are people still choosing to live week to week?

Maybe. It doesn't really change the situation were in right now. There's little value in having few businesses left when this thing is over.

Cork Boy 53

pgj2015 wrote: »

it is the 5 a side i miss the most.

i wonder when will we be able to do that again?

Best case scenario would be this autumn but more than likely it will be 2021.

never_mind

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Best case scenario would be this autumn but more than likely it will be 2021.

Lol no I’d say 2045... actually, wait, what age are you and then I’ll decide?

is_that_so

pgj2015 wrote: »

The likes of harris hasnt a clue what he is at. he will be saying something completely different tomorrow morning.

So what did he say yesterday that was different?

pgj2015

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Best case scenario would be this autumn but more than likely it will be 2021.

what? I may as well be dead if that is the case lol

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

fwiw in the area I live I've seen a slow but gradual increase in groups of friends standing chatting without observing what I would consider social distancing. It is very hard to police this and it is going to happen naturally as the 'lockdown' continues. The next step will be people deciding it is no harm to visit relatives and friends for a chat around the kitchen table.

I don't have an answer but whatever we do needs to take human nature into account to some extent. There's theory and reality.

Yeah of course people will break the rules and take more risks. That's natural. But the objective isn't to get transmissions down to zero. We need 2/3 of the population to get it to achieve herd Immunity. The people who flaunt the laws will be more likely to get it sooner.

But in reality the vulnerable people can't be allowed to get it so most of the rest of us will have to get it at some point before there will be herd Immunity. It's frustrating to see them acting the maggot. But, as you say, it's human nature.

Cork Boy 53

pgj2015 wrote: »

The likes of harris hasnt a clue what he is at. he will be saying something completely different tomorrow morning.

Why do you think that?

ixoy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah of course people will break the rules and take more risks. That's natural. But the objective isn't to get transmissions down to zero. We need 2/3 of the population to get it to achieve herd Immunity. The people who flaunt the laws will be more likely to get it sooner..

I think that, as it goes on longer, it could well be a majority flaunting these rules. It won't necessarily be them socialising with strangers but with family/friends at closer than a 2m distance. They're not going to stay apart until a vaccine is produced and/or herd immunity kicks in.
I certainly can't see how we'll expect over-70s to cocoon for that period and not venture out. Saying "they'll have to" won't cut it with how people actually want to live. Sure I see a number of people, clearly over 70, out already.