Relaxation of restrictions

easypazz

Ace2007 wrote: »

Where did i say we should lock everybody down? I replied to a poster who basically said they want to get back to normal.

Let's look at your parents, what happens if one of those was in a nursing home - and they won't be allowed visitors for the next 6+ months, and you weren't allowed bring your children to visit them until the vaccine comes out - would yo be ok with that? Having say your mother alone in the house with no family contact, and your farther in a nursing home away from his loved ones indefinatly?

You are forgetting about testing.

Test my family on Friday, results Saturday visit old folks home Sunday and parents house afterwards.

Wear PPE in the nursing home if necessary.

Its going to be all about compromise and working within the constraints.

People who want to fly can be tested before they travel.

pgj2015

its funny how say this time last year people could go around smoking, drinking too much, taking drugs, eating junk food and being overweight and that was ok, now people are going to have to wise up if they want to live.

completedit

The thing about easing the restrictions. So much of the jobs that have been lost are in sectors that have environments that would just allow the virus to spread wildly again. I think once we ease up the restrictions a little, we will see we are facing down the barrel of the gun.

polesheep

Ace2007 wrote: »

You can't ask doctors and nurses to work indefinitely either - but that's what your proposing, - another poster wants a tent build outside hospitals, lifting restrictions too early could lead us to being worse than Italy and Spain. And the exact same posters would slate the government if that happens.

You look at restrictions abroad and you look at them here - no wonder are rates are rising - you need to be very naive if you think we are in a restrictive state and "lock down". We have posters on here living in Italy and Spain telling us what it's like in real life over there and how lax the restrictions are here.

But in reality - you don't care about that, you just want to get back to normality - but wait you want the sick, vulnerable, elderly and everyone associated with them to put their lives on hold - so that the hospitals etc don't get overrun.

Doctors and nurses, like all others, work until retirement. Not indefinitely.

You keep omitting the last part of your post. "so that the hospitals etc don't get overrun and the same old and vulnerable people die."

Cork Boy 53

Augeo wrote: »

I'm working in a plant that's deemed essential, it's still open. Maybe 500 on site daily compared to 1500 ish prior to Covid19.

We can see clearly on site how proper implementation of the 2m thing etc can actually work. Most folk on site are doing the shopping and going home to wife/husband/other half/kids and there's been no case of Covid19 on site since the lockdown.

If you've a cold, cough, sniffle etc you don't come in, you'll be told to fook off home fairly lively if you do venture in.

There is plenty that can be done to ease restrictions and get folk back to work without risking an increase in cases. There's going to be a few thousand new cases every week/10 days for the foreseeable future and all going well ICU can cope with that as more ICU spaces come on stream.

I've been within 2m of no one for more than a few minutes at work or shopping since this March 17th ish. GF is working from home and goes for groceries and calls into work maybe once a week.

If essential work can continue and abide by the rules there's plenty non essential stuff that can go on too, folk will need to buy into it though, and I think they will.

Are the workforce there wearing masks or any type of PPE?

easypazz

Idbatterim wrote: »

The fifth of may , why pull that date out of their ass? building and building suppliers etc, the entire industry supporting several hundred thousand jobs, should he reopened tomorrow, its lunacy!

They have gone full in. Its an all or nothing shot.

If things are still bad the plan has failed and no point continuing.

If they need to extend by a week, and simultaneously that A, B and C will definitely open after that, followed by D, E and F another week or two later then people might accept a short extension.

Eventually announcing 20 people median age 84 died today will not get much attention.

easypazz

completedit wrote: »

The thing about easing the restrictions. So much of the jobs that have been lost are in sectors that have environments that would just allow the virus to spread wildly again. I think once we ease up the restrictions a little, we will see we are facing down the barrel of the gun.

Such as?

Restrictions etc are working quite well, without taking into account the German lab results the last few days positive cases are

April 15th 677 cases, April 14th 548 cases, April 13th 527 cases, April 12th 430 cases.

Testing isn't perfect of course but it's ramped up from weeks ago where we were seeing the following......... 01st to 06th April ....212, 402, 424, 331, 390 & 370.



The rate of increase is undoubtedly slowing......... 2.5 weeks until May 05th also.



German lab results included in the graphs.

polesheep

Ace2007 wrote: »

What i'm suggesting is that everyone should be treated equally - so you lift restrictions gradually in a way that everyone can live a less restrictive life.

What i read on here, is that we lift restrictions so that the "healthy" can get back to normal, while the vulnerable continue to isolate and wait for a vaccine.

I read a poster for instance suggesting that pubs do a over 70's time in the day - like Tesco have - that's thinking positively - including everyone in society.

Your posts perfectly illustrate why governments got this so very wrong. Lockdown for one means lockdown for all.

Ace2007

easypazz wrote: »

They have gone full in. Its an all or nothing shot.

If things are still bad the plan has failed and no point continuing.

If they need to extend by a week, and simultaneously that A, B and C will definitely open after that, followed by D, E and F another week or two later then people might accept a short extension.

Eventually announcing 20 people median age 84 died today will not get much attention.

The "lock down" may have failed to flatten the curve as much as we would like, and maybe more restrictive measures are needed - which given all your posts is not something that you will accept - even though you know full well that we are no where near restrictive as other countries in the world.

Maybe saying that more 20 year olds have died - would that get attention, we've been down the road of median too many times - but it doesn't really tell you anything other than 50% of those died over 84, 50% are less than 84, but the ordinary Joe Soap, thinks this means the average age of death is 84.

We have it reported now that 2 more healthcare workers have died - that's 3 so far, but again sure you don't care - they were going to die sometime right?

Ace2007

polesheep wrote: »

Your posts perfectly illustrate why governments got this so very wrong. Lockdown for one means lockdown for all.

If that's what you've taken from my posts....

Cork Boy 53

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Are the workforce there wearing masks or any type of PPE?

Canteen staff are wearing face shields. If you are working on the floor and envisage being within 2m of someone for over 15 minutes then you wear a face shield also. Faceshields are very limited in benefit IMO but I suppose they stop breath droplets to an extent. You can wear your faceshield at desk if you want to of course, no one does.

No surgical masks or cotton masks or anything like that.

Hand sanitiser is everywhere.

Hooked

Augeo wrote: »

I'm working in a plant that's deemed essential, it's still open. Maybe 500 on site daily compared to 1500 ish prior to Covid19.

We can see clearly on site how proper implementation of the 2m thing etc can actually work. Most folk on site are doing the shopping and going home to wife/husband/other half/kids and there's been no case of Covid19 on site since the lockdown.

If you've a cold, cough, sniffle etc you don't come in, you'll be told to fook off home fairly lively if you do venture in.

There is plenty that can be done to ease restrictions and get folk back to work without risking an increase in cases. There's going to be a few thousand new cases every week/10 days for the foreseeable future and all going well ICU can cope with that as more ICU spaces come on stream.

I've been within 2m of no one for more than a few minutes at work or shopping since this March 17th ish. GF is working from home and goes for groceries and calls into work maybe once a week.

If essential work can continue and abide by the rules there's plenty non essential stuff that can go on too, folk will need to buy into it though, and I think they will.

This is exactly my thinking!

We can't go on with 'lockdown' for months on end. A vaccine could be 1.5 years away.

People need to learn to live with the virus, stay in tight family groups. No stranger interaction. 2M distance at work, shopping, everywhere. Practice good hygiene. Use common sense. Limit the spread. INDEFINITELY! Big sporting events and pubs/air travel are going to need a different approach.

You don't refuse to drive in case someone crashes into you - or because you hit someone. You drive, adhering to the rules of the road and use common sense!

Living with Covid-19 should be the same. Adapt & carry on with new ways of doing things.

By 5th May - we'll have had near 2 months to build "capacity". Time to get us back to work and living somewhat 'free' lives.

bladespin

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Are the workforce there wearing masks or any type of PPE?

Not sure why they would need to, as long as proper distancing was maintained etc.

Cork Boy 53

Idbatterim wrote: »

The fifth of may , why pull that date out of their ass? building and building suppliers etc, the entire industry supporting several hundred thousand jobs, should he reopened tomorrow, its lunacy!

If they were to be reopened tomorrow and as a result there was a spike in deaths and people needing ICU treatment then they would very shortly afterwards be shut down again. Whether you accept it or not that is the reality.

easypazz

Ace2007 wrote: »

The "lock down" may have failed to flatten the curve as much as we would like, and maybe more restrictive measures are needed - which given all your posts is not something that you will accept - even though you know full well that we are no where near restrictive as other countries in the world.

I go for a exercise once a day and am trying to get visits to shops from members of my household down to twice a week.

We bring supplies to our cocooners and go to the bank / post office for them.

What am I not prepared to accept?

Ace2007 wrote: »

Maybe saying that more 20 year olds have died - would that get attention, we've been down the road of median too many times - but it doesn't really tell you anything other than 50% of those died over 84, 50% are less than 84, but the ordinary Joe Soap, thinks this means the average age of death is 84.

Ok, if they start to announce 17 people died today, 90% over 65 and 14 have underlying medical conditions it won' grand headlines forever.

Ace2007 wrote: »

T

We have it reported now that 2 more healthcare workers have died - that's 3 so far, but again sure you don't care -

Where did I say I don't care?

polesheep

Ace2007 wrote: »

If that's what you've taken from my posts....

You said, "What i'm suggesting is that everyone should be treated equally."
Now unless I have a poor grasp of English...

easypazz

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If they were to be reopened tomorrow and as a result there was a spike in deaths and people needing ICU treatment then they would very shortly afterwards be shut down again. Whether you accept it or not that is the reality.

It would depend, if it was traced to a number of large projects then they could test and quarantine everybody involved.

But no point in closing a one off house development in rural Dingle if the outbreak is a new runway at Dublin airport.

Ace2007

polesheep wrote: »

You said, "What i'm suggesting is that everyone should be treated equally."
Now unless I have a poor grasp of English...

And your attitude appears to be like others, forget about the sick and elderly and let the rest of us get on with our lives,

Healthcare workers in this country are dying from this virus, yet those in nursing homes settings are not being brought to hospitals. The stats released daily show the age groups of those in hospitals and a large % are under 65, i.e. those who should be working - by opening up the country in full as many posters want your going to increase the numbers under 65 who will get the virus and in turn end up needing hospital treatment, which in turn leads to greater risks for the healthcare workers - but who cares, if it means the economy gets back on its feet?

Wibbs

bladespin wrote: »

Not sure why they would need to, as long as proper distancing was maintained etc.

Because distancing isn't enough. It's free which helps, just like handwashing, but a cough can send snotters flying way beyond two metres, even loud speech can. I'm sure you've met one of those say it don't spray it, I want the news not the weather types in your life. This is why in Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, The Czech republic and nearly everywhere in the far East and now New York has a masks have to be worn in public regulation. They quite simply reduce risk and we should have had that here long ago, not the clearly contradictory bullsh1t from the HSE over their use in the community. Brought to you by the same people whose experts reckoned visiting old folks homes was grand and living with an asymptomatic covid contact was very low risk.

ixoy

Ace2007 wrote: »

but who cares, if it means the economy gets back on its feet?

How do you expect this all to be paid for though if the economy is in tatters? Because we do need to account for it.

And longer term, do you think elderly people/people with conditions will want everyone locked down like them? Given that reduces the amount of money available to the government to manage the situation.
Or that their grandchildren/friends will not only be locked down, but facing emerging into long term unemployment, working until they're into their 70s (because retirement at 68 is no way feasible anymore due to the government being peniless), etc. Do you think they'd want that for them?

There has to be a balance that's not just "lock everyone inside in solidarity".

Ace2007

easypazz wrote: »

You are forgetting about testing.

Test my family on Friday, results Saturday visit old folks home Sunday and parents house afterwards.

Wear PPE in the nursing home if necessary.

Its going to be all about compromise and working within the constraints.

People who want to fly can be tested before they travel.

I actually wasn't forgetting about testing, but how many times do you get tested - the way your talking it will be every time you visit an old folks home - what happens if you go daily?

You do know that it many homes they are no longer testing for the virus - they will assume you have it if you show symptoms - so a resident will never know if they had the virus or not.

I love how in once sense you say it's about compromise and working within the constraints but in other posts you say they have to start lifting restrictions etc. it's like you want your cake and eat it too.

stephenjmcd

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/who-wants-draconian-lockdowns-to-end-as-soon-as-possible-994345.html

More from the WHO today

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Because distancing isn't enough. It's free which helps, just like handwashing, but a cough can send snotters flying way beyond two metres, even loud speech can. I'm sure you've met one of those say it don't spray it, I want the news not the weather types in your life. This is why in Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, The Czech republic and nearly everywhere in the far East and now New York has a masks have to be worn in public regulation. They quite simply reduce risk and we should have had that here long ago, not the clearly contradictory bullsh1t from the HSE over their use in the community. Brought to you by the same people whose experts reckoned visiting old folks homes was grand and living with an asymptomatic covid contact was very low risk.

I have no doubt that the messaging re. face masks is only down to supply. If we all wear them, then there won’t be enough for front liners. As soon as there is enough supply, the advice will change and they will be mandatory, at least in environments where social distancing is difficult

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no doubt that the messaging re. face masks is only down to supply. If we all wear them, then there won’t be enough for front liners. As soon as there is enough supply, the advice will change and they will be mandatory, at least in environments where social distancing is difficult

They always said that.

lainey_d_123

Wibbs wrote: »

Because distancing isn't enough. It's free which helps, just like handwashing, but a cough can send snotters flying way beyond two metres, even loud speech can. I'm sure you've met one of those say it don't spray it, I want the news not the weather types in your life. This is why in Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, The Czech republic and nearly everywhere in the far East and now New York has a masks have to be worn in public regulation. They quite simply reduce risk and we should have had that here long ago, not the clearly contradictory bullsh1t from the HSE over their use in the community. Brought to you by the same people whose experts reckoned visiting old folks homes was grand and living with an asymptomatic covid contact was very low risk.

Unbelievable how many people actually bought the official 'advice' that masks were useless or even made things worse. Do people just not engage their brains? Let me see - I could go outside totally unprotected or I could cover my face with something that makes me far less likely for other people's droplets from talking/coughing/sneezing to land in my nose or mouth....what a dilemma....NOT.

People who are otherwise intelligent and rational acting like absolute sheep because the government bent the truth.

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

They always said that.

No, they didn't. They pushed the lie that masks were useless, or even made things worse. A lot of people still believe that. It's clearly absolute bullsh1t.

CtevenSrowder

Ace2007 wrote: »

And your attitude appears to be like others, forget about the sick and elderly and let the rest of us get on with our lives,

Healthcare workers in this country are dying from this virus, yet those in nursing homes settings are not being brought to hospitals. The stats released daily show the age groups of those in hospitals and a large % are under 65, i.e. those who should be working - by opening up the country in full as many posters want your going to increase the numbers under 65 who will get the virus and in turn end up needing hospital treatment, which in turn leads to greater risks for the healthcare workers - but who cares, if it means the economy gets back on its feet?

What exactly would you suggest we do instead? Restrictions have to be lifted eventually unless we wait out in the hope of a vaccine, which isn't even guarenteed to ever be made. Your we all go down together approach is the worst of all the bad options we have.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no doubt that the messaging re. face masks is only down to supply. If we all wear them, then there won’t be enough for front liners. As soon as there is enough supply, the advice will change and they will be mandatory, at least in environments where social distancing is difficult

So supply needs to catch up with demand. If we all need to wear masks, then they need to step up production of masks, clearly. There's no excuse for a shortage now - we've had months to get ready for this. There are plenty of people who have been laid off from making clothes and whatnot - why don't they switch to making masks, like the firm in the North who switched from sportswear to scrubs and masks? Added bonus of keeping more people in work.

CtevenSrowder

Wibbs wrote: »

Because distancing isn't enough. It's free which helps, just like handwashing, but a cough can send snotters flying way beyond two metres, even loud speech can. I'm sure you've met one of those say it don't spray it, I want the news not the weather types in your life. This is why in Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, The Czech republic and nearly everywhere in the far East and now New York has a masks have to be worn in public regulation. They quite simply reduce risk and we should have had that here long ago, not the clearly contradictory bullsh1t from the HSE over their use in the community. Brought to you by the same people whose experts reckoned visiting old folks homes was grand and living with an asymptomatic covid contact was very low risk.

We're not being advised to wear them because of a supply issue.