Relaxation of restrictions

Theboinkmaster

Ace2007 wrote: »

But yet they are seen as the most deadliest carriers of the virus.... hence schools/creches etc are all closed

Yes but you can't leave creches closed for 12-18 months until there's a vaccine.

The impact on the economy will kill more people than COVID-19.

Theboinkmaster

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Are these viruses and bacteria as life-threatening to other people as Covid-19?

Nope but you were asking about risk to my kids health.

I'm happy to keep them away from vulnerable people for 12-18 months no issue with that.

But you can't keep them closed for 12-18 months.

Open in June or open in October - what's the difference, risk is the same.

Cyrus

Ace2007 wrote: »

But yet they are seen as the most deadliest carriers of the virus.... hence schools/creches etc are all closed

they arent any 'deadlier' than anyone else, what are you on about?

iamwhoiam

Ace2007 wrote: »

But yet they are seen as the most deadliest carriers of the virus.... hence schools/creches etc are all closed

Why are they more deadlier that anyone else ? I see this all the time written but no basis for it

Nermal

Ace2007 wrote: »

Maybe you haven't sued over it - but there are claims against creche regularly - just like their are claims against pretty much any company that has liability insurance.

Insurance-related complications will be the next stumbling block to resuming normal activity. Cover will be unavailable. Why risk a lawsuit? Better stay closed, wait and see.

In the modern world people demand that nothing bad ever happens to them, and are pathologically incapable of assuming risk.

It's a lot harder to restart business activity than to stop it. There is no pause button. The €22B climbs by the day.

Ace2007

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Yes but you can't leave creches closed for 12-18 months until there's a vaccine.

The impact on the economy will kill more people than COVID-19.

I agree, that's why i suspect creches will insist parents sign a waiver that they will take no responsibility or be legally accountable if a child picks up the virus etc. Will be up to parents to decide if they are ok with this.

Cyrus wrote: »

they arent any 'deadlier' than anyone else, what are you on about?

Children are less likely to practice social distancing, coughing correct, washing hands etc - hundreds of articles out there that will show you this, and hence they will spread the virus if they have it more quickly than a group of adults.

munsterlegend

So are we expecting schools to open or not? Primary schools normally not closed until end of June so is a window there for reopening.

Stateofyou

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Why are they more deadlier that anyone else ? I see this all the time written but no basis for it

Probably because they're not usually badly affected, are more likely to be asymptomatic, have no sense of personal hygiene and then go around touching everything and spreading?

skallywag

munsterlegend wrote: »

So are we expecting schools to open or not? Primary schools normally not closed until end of June so is a window there for reopening.

If pushed to show my hand, my bet would be all school and uni off until September earliest.

lainey_d_123

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Why are they more deadlier that anyone else ? I see this all the time written but no basis for it

Have you ever met a child? They're absolutely gross, no concept of personal hygiene, picking their noses, snots everywhere, touching each other constantly, too young to understand social distancing and most dangerous of all, they are more likely to asymptomatic carriers of the virus than adults. They are the biggest risk for spreading the virus. You can't explain to a 2-year-old why they need to sanitise their hands after opening a door, or that they can't touch their face.

munsterlegend

munsterlegend wrote: »

So are we expecting schools to open or not? Primary schools normally not closed until end of June so is a window there for reopening.

No chance IMO.
Whatever folk will do for Jul & Aug will have to be done for May and June.

easypazz

munsterlegend wrote: »

So are we expecting schools to open or not? Primary schools normally not closed until end of June so is a window there for reopening.

I wouldn't think so.

Unless there is some medical logic that by getting kids back in school it grounds families locally.

If travel restrictions are lifted families might start driving all over the country meeting friends and relations and spreading it everywhere.

LiquidZeb

pjohnson wrote: »

The "time to open up" crowd have always wanted economy open and not gave a ****e about deaths. Sure its only the elderly they dont contribute to motherlands economy anyway so are already irrelevant.

He just admitted he wont open schools safely so health and safety itself is probably a nuisance.

That's quite an impressive strawman you've built there.

Spanish Eyes

First it was those who wanted a lockdown right away. Done.

Now it is those who want the lockdown lifted right away, won't be for a while yet I think.

I get that people are getting antsy, myself included but it is what it is. Certain things will reopen slowly on May 6th, just to see how things go. So to my mind, and am no expert either, it will be a very gradual re opening of things. If people become complacent and figures rise again, back we go to lockdown I think. Peaks and troughs.

It is dreadful, and very hard on many people. However we have to be optimistic, but realistic too.

Let's see how those countries before us deal with gradual re openings, and see what happens there. We are fortunate in lots of ways to be able to see the effect of the easing of lockdowns elsewhere before we decide what to do. On the assumption that our Ro figures warrant it of course.

iamwhoiam

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Have you ever met a child? They're absolutely gross, no concept of personal hygiene, picking their noses, snots everywhere, touching each other constantly, too young to understand social distancing and most dangerous of all, they are more likely to asymptomatic carriers of the virus than adults. They are the biggest risk for spreading the virus. You can't explain to a 2-year-old why they need to sanitise their hands after opening a door, or that they can't touch their face.

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

munsterlegend

Augeo wrote: »

No chance IMO.
Whatever folk will do for Jul & Aug will have to be done for May and June.

The Irish Times seemed to think it was being considered in an article recently.

lainey_d_123

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

I'm not being snarky, but how are they not more likely to spread it than adults when they're even less likely to take precautions, and even less likely to show symptoms themselves?

I don't know how you can say how the virus spread in Ireland when there has been little to no contact tracing and barely any testing. The fact is nobody knows, but it seems a pretty sure bet to think children could be a big factor.

Theboinkmaster

Ace2007 wrote: »

I agree, that's why i suspect creches will insist parents sign a waiver that they will take no responsibility or be legally accountable if a child picks up the virus etc. Will be up to parents to decide if they are ok with this.

Bring it on! I'd be happy enough to sign such a waiver.

Ace2007

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

It's common sense that kids don't practice the same level of hygiene than most adults.

iamwhoiam

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's common sense that kids don't practice the same level of hygiene than most adults.

I am well aware but has anyone actually tested kids to see if they are carriers . I am not disputing it but not convinced they are the main carriers and spreaders. The spread is just as likely in warm , airless crowed pubs by adults

iamwhoiam

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm not being snarky, but how are they not more likely to spread it than adults when they're even less likely to take precautions, and even less likely to show symptoms themselves?

I don't know how you can say how the virus spread in Ireland when there has been little to no contact tracing and barely any testing. The fact is nobody knows, but it seems a pretty sure bet to think children could be a big factor.

In my opinion the spread is just as likely to be by adults in crowds and over crowded pubs and clubs

Tell me how

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am well aware but has anyone actually tested kids to see if they are carriers . I am not disputing it but not convinced they are the main carriers and spreaders. The spread is just as likely in warm , airless crowed pubs by adults

No one is saying that. Each human is as likely to be a carrier as the next on the basis of physiology, but, adults generally should be better at practicing god hygiene and observing social distancing rules.

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In my opinion the spread is just as likely to be by adults in crowds and over crowded pubs and clubs

They are all closed though, and will be for the foreseeable future. Well beyond May and June IMO.

khalessi

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

This is because the schools were closed on Mrch 12th before it could get a good hold on our schools.

Ask any teacher about how children spread viruses. As I have said else where in the week of the school closure, a colleague had nearly half a class missing due to vomitting bug. Also ask about how easily spread headlice are in schools.

Children do not have the same boundaries as adults and the spread by care workers was down to them not knowing that Covid19 was in nursing homes until it was too late as some probably were doing agency or wroking between nursing homes and they also did not have access to proper PPE

iamwhoiam

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is saying that. Each human is as likely to be a carrier as the next on the basis of physiology, but, adults generally should be better at practicing god hygiene and observing social distancing rules.

Yes I get that , small kids will definitely need more supervision and care before let loose on the community . But small kids in my opinion are probably more likely to spread it in the home as unlikely to be wandering freely among the population .

Cyrus

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

and even if they do spread it, is what they spread any deadlier than anyone elses?

robinph

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

iamwhoiam

Cyrus wrote: »

and even if they do spread it, is what they spread any deadlier than anyone elses?

That was my point too . Their spread is no more deadly than that of a carer in a care home .

retro:electro

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

They touched on this on Prime Time last night and its the reason Sweden have not closed primary schools or crèches yet. They had some immunologist on talking about it and apparently there is a theory that adults are more likely to infect children with this virus than the other way around.

KiKi III

robinph wrote: »

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

Class time seems fairly easy to manage to me; separate desks and hand sanitizer every time you line up.

Hard to see how you’d manage breaks though.