Relaxation of restrictions

KiKi III

Idbatterim wrote: »

Lads when you are interested in foreign news, unlike the lockdown merchants here who rely solely on rte, lol, you'll see how the other governments realise this current phase of lockdown we are in, needs to end soon ... they arent all hyper comservative governments like here, that will do more damage than good!

Nearly half the deaths are in nursing homes , unsurprising, they need to tackle that asap!

What countries are you talking about specifically? Almost all of Western Europe has already done or plans for at least five weeks of lockdown.

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The default position is that humans gain immunity after fighting off a virus. You don't need evidence that you can't get it again, you need evidence that you can.

We have millions of confirmed cases. If reinfection were a major issue, it would be known. Some reports that it may have happened aren't enough.

There is also evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage.

The “herd immunity” pushers consistently ignore this.

rob316

Cyrus wrote: »

Hyperbolic in the extreme

The reality is that the level of incremental deaths yoy at the moment isn’t significant and when all of this is over the number of deaths in 2020 will be lower than other recent years.

We need to move on with making the societal changes that help limit the spread while getting people back to work and to some level of normality . I’m not sure you noticed but we can’t afford to pay people 350 a week into perpetuity .

Its not about the deaths though, its about making sure our health service doesn't meltdown. People continue to miss this

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

There is also evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage.

The “herd immunity” pushers consistently ignore this.

Scaremongering hyperbolic crap. Generally any long term ramifications are from those who end up in ICU, or who may have had an underlying issue which would have resulted in similar long term effects with any serious respiratory illness.

Put up some trustworthy links to back up such nonsense please.

It's nice to see more common sense and positivity in the majority of the posters in here though. Great post by Kaiser last night.

KiKi III

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Scaremongering hyperbolic crap. Generally any long term ramifications are from those who end up in ICU, or who may have had an underlying issue which would have resulted in similar long term effects with any serious respiratory illness.

Put up some trustworthy links to back up such nonsense please.

It's nice to see more common sense and positivity in the majority of the posters in here though. Great post by Kaiser last night.

Here’s a respiratory doctor talking about it in the Irish Times.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/coronavirus-what-happens-to-people-s-lungs-if-they-get-covid-19-1.4211714%3fmode=amp

6% of people will get a severe enough version of the illness to fall into this category.

So, if you’re trying to achieve here immunity, that’s 6% of 3,000,000 people.

How do you imagine our health system, currently under pressure with a few hundred people in ICU is going to cope with that?

There is no way the lock down as it stands is being extended beyond may 05th. I don't know what exactly will be the first steps, building sites or non essential workplaces that can implement the 2m thing.... But something will be changed.

There will be more movement of people and economic activity.

Professor Moriarty

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Scaremongering hyperbolic crap. Generally any long term ramifications are from those who end up in ICU, or who may have had an underlying issue which would have resulted in similar long term effects with any serious respiratory illness.

Put up some trustworthy links to back up such nonsense please.

It's nice to see more common sense and positivity in the majority of the posters in here though. Great post by Kaiser last night.

Interesting research here. In particular, check out Table 3 wrt ARDS and Acute cardiac injury.

alta stare

Augeo wrote: »

There is no way the lock down as it stands is being extended beyond may 05th. I don't know what exactly will be the first steps, building sites or non essential workplaces that can implement the 2m thing.... But something will be changed.

There will be more movement of people and economic activity.

Hopefully it does end somewhat and we can go back to work.

jester77

KiKi III wrote: »

What countries are you talking about specifically? Almost all of Western Europe has already done or plans for at least five weeks of lockdown.

Shops under 800 sqm. are opening here in Hamburg on Monday, exam students returning the following Monday, more classes the week after that. Slowly returning to normal is the approach been taken.

Pitch n Putt

rob316 wrote: »

Its not about the deaths though, its about making sure our health service doesn't meltdown. People continue to miss this

We’re being told constantly about all the spare capacity that’s been created throughout the country which is great work by all involved and ideally we would never use any of it

But at some stage we’re going to have to realise that were going to be using some of it to allow some return to normality.

No point extending lockdown after lockdown and continue to look at all the spare capacity we have while the country goes down the drain.

We have to get back to living and test the waters as such. That’s why a two week extension on the lockdown would have been enough. The third week is a step too far and needlessly puts off the fact that we have to carry on with life and see what happens when we allow restrictions to be lifted.

KiKi III

jester77 wrote: »

Shops under 800 sqm. are opening here in Hamburg on Monday, exam students returning the following Monday, more classes the week after that. Slowly returning to normal is the approach been taken.

Fair enough, so they will have done four weeks of lockdown rather than 5, with lighter restrictions in place for longer.

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

Here’s a respiratory doctor talking about it in the Irish Times.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/coronavirus-what-happens-to-people-s-lungs-if-they-get-covid-19-1.4211714%3fmode=amp

6% of people will get a severe enough version of the illness to fall into this category.

So, if you’re trying to achieve here immunity, that’s 6% of 3,000,000 people.

How do you imagine our health system, currently under pressure with a few hundred people in ICU is going to cope with that?

There's been 14,000 confirmed cases here. 300 ICU admissions as a result of those. I would imagine only a fraction of those 300 will have long term issues but even if they all did, it's still a tiny percentage of those who get the virus.

I'm not talking about herd immunity. I'm talking about statements like "evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Terribly miserable way of wording something.

There's evidence too that you'll get struck by lightning today if you go out Kiki. Best continue working on your bunker.

You could have just as easily worded it "people who end up in ICU might suffer long term effects". No sh!t Sherlock

KiKi III

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

There's been 14,000 confirmed cases here. 300 ICU admissions as a result of those. I would imagine only a fraction of those 300 will have long term issues but even if they all did, it's still a tiny percentage of those who get the virus.

I'm not talking about herd immunity. I'm talking about statements like "evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Terribly miserable way of wording something.

There's evidence too that you'll get struck by lightning today if you go out Kiki. Best continue working on your bunker.

You could have just as easily worded it "people who end up in ICU might suffer long term effects". No sh!t Sherlock

Tell me this Joe, if your solution is the way forward how come not one doctor or epidemiologist is advocating it? Do you know more about this than they do?

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

Tell me this Joe, if your solution is the way forward how come not one doctor or epidemiologist is advocating it? Do you know more about this than they do?

Wtf are you even on about? Have you been drinking? Not slept enough?

"evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

This statement by you is all I am discussing. I didn't mention a solution, just calling out your hyperbolic misery laden nonsense.

KiKi III

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Wtf are you even on about? Have you been drinking? Not slept enough?

"evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

This statement by you is all I am discussing. I didn't mention a solution, just calling out your hyperbolic misery laden nonsense.

You’re calling my hyperbolic and also telling me I’m stating the obvious in the last two posts...

Which is it?

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

You’re calling my hyperbolic and also telling me I’m stating the obvious in the last two posts...

Which is it?

I'm calling you hyperbolic. I don't think I could have been any clearer. Time for a sleep or some fresh air there Kiki misery

easypazz

KiKi III wrote: »

You’re calling my hyperbolic and also telling me I’m stating the obvious in the last two posts...

Which is it?

Your argument is all over the place.

Long term lung and heart damage, what doctor says that?

KiKi III

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

It's funny how some people want to default to experts on this. There are literally no experts on this, it's completely unprecedented.

The fact some countries are taking wildly different strategies on this proves as such.

Complete and utter guessing game.

Here’s your post from a couple of days ago where you claim there are no experts on this, which is blatantly rubbish.

We have epidemiologists who have studied SARS and MERS for the last 18 years. We have doctors who have spent their whole careers treating viruses.

And we have you, a Tiger King fan.

Not that that’s a bad thing, I too enjoyed the show. But I’m going to continue going with doctors and epidemiologists on how to counter Covid 19.

I’ll happily take your opinion on whether Carole Baskin killed her husband though. I think she did.

_Kaiser_

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

There's been 14,000 confirmed cases here. 300 ICU admissions as a result of those. I would imagine only a fraction of those 300 will have long term issues but even if they all did, it's still a tiny percentage of those who get the virus.

I'm not talking about herd immunity. I'm talking about statements like "evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Terribly miserable way of wording something.

There's evidence too that you'll get struck by lightning today if you go out Kiki. Best continue working on your bunker.

You could have just as easily worded it "people who end up in ICU might suffer long term effects". No sh!t Sherlock

You can't really blame people for their fears on this one. It's a very big deal and people are dying because of it.

But everyone reacts differently in a crisis. Some immediately adopt the worst case scenario mindset and freak out over it, some dismiss it outright and think it won't happen to them, and then others take a balanced approach, weighing risk against necessity.

I and I think most people are in that final category and based on the impact and risk to date, there's just no basis for locking in the vast majority of people much longer (as I said last night it's been accepted till now to allow time to get the response plans spun up).

People need to look at their own situation, take the precautions and steps needed to minimise risk (for some this will mean continuing to isolate) and then just get on with it and take responsibility for themselves.

We can protect the vulnerable minority without trying to freeze everything indefinitely - which is not realistic anyway and even if it was, would leave us ALL with far greater problems in the long run

easypazz

Cupatae wrote: »

Sounds great really does just seems very hollow i see this same speil everywhere "the virus isnt going anywhere we need to learn to live with it" what do people think the lockdown is for? we are figuring **** out while trying to flatten the curve, if alot of the head the walls had there way on here the lockdown would have stopped at 2 weeks "Job Done".

but anyway how do you suggest on returning most the population to normal lives, and stop our hospitals being overrun?

Whats the contingency plan should things go tits up ? lock down again?

Its the minister for health that say we need to live with the virus.

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

Here’s your post from a couple of days ago where you claim there are no experts on this, which is blatantly rubbish.

We have epidemiologists who have studied SARS and MERS for the last 18 years. We have doctors who have spent their whole careers treating viruses.

And we have you, a Tiger King fan.

Not that that’s a bad thing, I too enjoyed the show. But I’m going to continue going with doctors and epidemiologists on how to counter Covid 19.

I’ll happily take your opinion on whether Carole Baskin killed her husband though. I think she did.

"evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Stop veering away from your wildly hyperbolic statement for a second will you. You're all over the place.

KiKi III

easypazz wrote: »

Your argument is all over the place.

Long term lung and heart damage, what doctor says that?

You spent half a day having a shítfit over the fact that you can’t get a draft pint. I think I’m going to go ahead and put you on ignore.

CtevenSrowder

KiKi III wrote: »

There is also evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage.

The “herd immunity” pushers consistently ignore this.

That's only if you have it serious enough to be hospitalised l. The overwhelming majority do not have it this bad.

KiKi III

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

"evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Stop veering away from your wildly hyperbolic statement for a second will you. You're all over the place.

I already provided you with one link, here’s another which points to longterm damage even in those with mild symptoms.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/04/more-bad-news-on-the-long-term-effects-of-the-coronavirus.html

There are people on here who want to have a discussion like kaiser and people like you who just want to attack anyone who disagrees with them.

JoeExotic81

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

That's only if you have it serious enough to be hospitalised l. The overwhelming majority do not have it this bad.

A sensationalist headline grabbing massively misleading statement which she seems to be doing everything to ignore being called out on.

easypazz

KiKi III wrote: »

You spent half a day having a shítfit over the fact that you can’t get a draft pint.

I didn't, I just corrected people who said you can.

Professor Moriarty

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

There's been 14,000 confirmed cases here. 300 ICU admissions as a result of those. I would imagine only a fraction of those 300 will have long term issues but even if they all did, it's still a tiny percentage of those who get the virus.

I'm not talking about herd immunity. I'm talking about statements like "evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Terribly miserable way of wording something.

There's evidence too that you'll get struck by lightning today if you go out Kiki. Best continue working on your bunker.

You could have just as easily worded it "people who end up in ICU might suffer long term effects". No sh!t Sherlock

Typically, only about 33% of people who are hospitalised with Covid-19 requires ICU treatment. Over 2,000 people have been hospitalised in Ireland. In that context, here is another study supporting The Lancet study wrt long term cardiac damage (The Lancet study concluded that hospitalised patients suffered long term ARDS and/or cardiac damage). This study focused on cardiac complications only. 20% of people hospitalised with Covid-19 suffered cardiac injury.

KiKi III

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You can't really blame people for their fears on this one. It's a very big deal and people are dying because of it.

But everyone reacts differently in a crisis. Some immediately adopt the worst case scenario mindset and freak out over it, some dismiss it outright and think it won't happen to them, and then others take a balanced approach, weighing risk against necessity.

I and I think most people are in that final category and based on the impact and risk to date, there's just no basis for locking in the vast majority of people much longer (as I said last night it's been accepted till now to allow time to get the response plans spun up).

People need to look at their own situation, take the precautions and steps needed to minimise risk (for some this will mean continuing to isolate) and then just get on with it and take responsibility for themselves.

We can protect the vulnerable minority without trying to freeze everything indefinitely - which is not realistic anyway and even if it was, would leave us ALL with far greater problems in the long run

Out of interest kaiser, what’s your take on why there aren’t doctors and epidemiologists coming out in support of your view?

retro:electro

KiKi III wrote: »

Here’s your post from a couple of days ago where you claim there are no experts on this, which is blatantly rubbish.

We have epidemiologists who have studied SARS and MERS for the last 18 years. We have doctors who have spent their whole careers treating viruses.

And we have you, a Tiger King fan.

Not that that’s a bad thing, I too enjoyed the show. But I’m going to continue going with doctors and epidemiologists on how to counter Covid 19.

I’ll happily take your opinion on whether Carole Baskin killed her husband though. I think she did.

But there are no experts on this. We have experts in their fields, that is wildly different to having experts on Covid 19. Even the people you claim are experts will tell you this is new ground and nobody really knows what they are dealing with. It’s a situation that is evolving every day. And a lot of doctors, immunologists and epidemiologists contradict themselves and each other every single day.

JoeExotic81

KiKi III wrote: »

I already provided you with one link, here’s another which points to longterm damage even in those with mild symptoms.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/04/more-bad-news-on-the-long-term-effects-of-the-coronavirus.html

There are people on here who want to have a discussion like kaiser and people like you who just want to attack anyone who disagrees with them.

And I clearly addressed your linked article with actual facts.

"evidence that if you get it and recover you can be left with long-term lung and heart damage."

Want me to link you an article showing how being struck by lightning can kill you?

It's a sad existence for you when even Tony holohon exhumes more hope and optimism than your misery laden hyperbolic statements.