Relaxation of restrictions

CtevenSrowder

Cupatae wrote: »

Alcohol and following strict rules and guidelines have historically never went well together..be an interesting one to enforce.

It'll never work once people get drunk, with few exceprtions. And would be nightmare to try and enforce. Would lead to arguments imo, which are always a dangerous thing with alcohol on board.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cupatae wrote: »

Alcohol and following strict rules and guidelines have historically never went well together..be an interesting one to enforce.

This is it: judgement is not the best after a few pints. Woudln't want to be the barstaff telling people to move further apart.

robinph

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Very strange gym you go to if people dont sweat.

Is the virus present in sweat?

Is the virus absorbed through the skin?

Do you lick other people's sweat from gym equipment?

WhiteMemento9

robinph wrote: »

What is the risk from using gym equipment?

Sweating pouring from people all over the place. Touching equipment that other people after them will use. Shared showers and changing rooms. It would be almost a perfect breeding ground to spread the virus.

Ace2007

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's doable, especially if the place has a beergarden - not easy though. Question is, how do you enforce it?

I suppose the only real way would be to have a limit number of people in a pub at any one time - similar to that as started by fire marshals (i think), i.e. a club can have no more than 900 people for instance. Any more and then could be prosecuted - just need to ensure what ever the penalties are, that they are tough enough for the pub to ensure people comply in the first place.

If pubs are faced with the situation of having say 40% of it's trade, or a risk that we could end up in "lock down" again and they have to shut - i think they will try to learn to run at 40%, or close down altogether.

CtevenSrowder

Cupatae wrote: »

When the health officials back it and we have a clear well defined plan on how to lift em with long term goals in mind.

Then, as such, you support an indefinitely (mostly) closed economy. If you can't give some clear date then we are shutdown indefinitely.

easypazz

Podge201 wrote: »

Pubs won't be open until 2021.

Official source?

Or is it something you just made up?

Cupatae

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Then, as such, you support an indefinitely (mostly) closed economy. If you can't give some clear date then we are shutdown indefinitely.

I dunno what mental gymnastics you pulled to get to that conclusion but carry on.

Cupatae

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Then, as such, you support an indefinitely (mostly) closed economy. If you can't give some clear date then we are shutdown indefinitely.

Better yet, what date do you want the place back in full swing?

CtevenSrowder

Cupatae wrote: »

I dunno what mental gymnastics you pulled to get to that conclusion but carry on.

The meaning of the word indefinite:

"lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time".

https://www.google.com/search?q=indefinite&oq=indefinite&aqs=chrome..0j69i57j0l6.3711j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

lainey_d_123

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a recurring incident.

Gagnelt, a university town in western Germany was randomly tested and found to have a 15% infection rate, althoguh only 2% had tested for the virus.

https://spectator.us/covid-antibody-test-german-town-shows-15-percent-infection-rate/

Herd immunity might have been happening anyway. But even if it is represtative of the virus as a whole, I think flattening the curve will help and was the right move. Just means life will settle back into pre-virus routines a little quicker than we predicted.

This would be the best possible news, really. That a) the death rate is much lower than first thought and b) the infection rate is much higher and this means many more people than thought are (hopefully) immune.

Would be the difference between this being something to look back on this time next year with a cold pint in hand, grateful to sitting in a sunny beer garden with your mates, and years more of lockdown and misery with a shattered economy.

Ace2007

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Then, as such, you support an indefinitely (mostly) closed economy. If you can't give some clear date then we are shutdown indefinitely.

you say a mostly closed economy - what is your proof of that?

over 75% of workers are still in employment is some shape or form. If you want a job tomorrow - there are plenty available.

This idea that the economy is on hold, is really in people's heads, large % of the work population are still working, public servants are still getting paid full wages -

Delivery companies can't keep up with demand, it's taken longer to get online deliverys now. Some sectors are booming more than ever before.

Xertz

Ace2007 wrote: »

I suppose the only real way would be to have a limit number of people in a pub at any one time - similar to that as started by fire marshals (i think), i.e. a club can have no more than 900 people for instance. Any more and then could be prosecuted - just need to ensure what ever the penalties are, that they are tough enough for the pub to ensure people comply in the first place.

If pubs are faced with the situation of having say 40% of it's trade, or a risk that we could end up in "lock down" again and they have to shut - i think they will try to learn to run at 40%, or close down altogether.

The problem wouldn’t be the numbers in that case it’s the distancing and when you add alcohol and atmosphere, the distancing element is likely to be gone.

It’s a very difficult one as I can’t see people being responsible enough after a few pints to be relied on to be reasonable. You’re looking at people with their inhibitions lowered by alcohol.

Also the lack of the Friday and Saturday night brawls is probably having a huge impact on A&E capacity.

We will have to reopen them eventually but it seems very low priority, if you consider the probably tens of billions it would cost if we have to relockdown as a result of a spike again.

There’s a definite hierarchy of what needs to and is safe to reopen with extreme caution and that probably means low risk things where you’re likely to be able to get calmer behaviour - offices, retail, cafes, restaurants all seem like far more likely spaces to be opened sooner than pubs and clubs.

We have to be realistic about any plans on a cost:benefit basis and risk:benefit basis. We all like a few pints but if it sends us back to another spike, I’m definitely willing to wait and even support pubs financially for a few more months to keep them mothballed and ready to roll when it is safe.

robinph

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Sweating pouring from people all over the place. Touching equipment that other people after them will use. Shared showers and changing rooms. It would be almost a perfect breeding ground to spread the virus.

What is the risk with sweat for this virus? How much time are you spending in close contact with other people in the changing rooms? Does the virus linger under a moving stream of hot water?

Cupatae

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

The meaning of the word indefinite:

"lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time".

https://www.google.com/search?q=indefinite&oq=indefinite&aqs=chrome..0j69i57j0l6.3711j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You do realise that me and you get no say on the date its lifted? do you want a date for arguement sake? May 5th with clear well defined plans and the backing of health officials

Happy?

Ace2007

Xertz wrote: »

The problem wouldn’t be the numbers in that case it’s the distancing and when you add alcohol and atmosphere, the distancing element is likely to be gone.

It’s a very difficult one as I can’t see people being responsible enough after a few pints to be relied on to be reasonable. You’re looking at people with their inhibitions lowered by alcohol.

Also the lack of the Friday and Saturday night brawls is probably having a huge impact on A&E capacity.

Maybe then it's also up to the barmen for instance - only have x number of drinks per night. Obviously that comes with issues, but lads coming in on a Friday after work, get to have a couple, leave, and then auld lads who drink later in night, or those coming in after dinner etc get a few drinks - instead of having jammed packed pubs will all sorts and some hammered etc.

Obviously these things are complex, but if society wanted to make it work, it will work.

Maybe bars will get to be like restuarants - you have to book a table and get 2 hour max etc, walk in's only allowed in tables free. etc.

The more i think of it the more ways around it there are - again only if society wants to

robinph

Xertz wrote: »

The problem wouldn’t be the numbers in that case it’s the distancing and when you add alcohol and atmosphere, the distancing element is likely to be gone.

It’s a very difficult one as I can’t see people being responsible enough after a few pints to be relied on to be reasonable. You’re looking at people with their inhibitions lowered by alcohol.

Also the lack of the Friday and Saturday night brawls is probably having a huge impact on A&E capacity.

Change the pubs to sit down at tables and table service only will limit people's movement and close contact, like in a cafe in other European countries.

Never going to happen in the UK and Ireland though.

CtevenSrowder

Cupatae wrote: »

Better yet, what date do you want the place back in full swing?

Full swing? September. My big concern would be pubs.

If I was running the show I'd continue as is till a week after the 5th. I'd then start allowing some businesses to open such as hardware shops, trades people to go back to work including hairdressers and barbers etc. I would keep secondary schools closed till September, with the exception of 6th years, as I see no point in them opening for ~2 weeks for the majority. LC has been delayed so 6th years would get something out of going back. Primary schools open for the month of June. They close again in July anyway.

In an ideal world testing would be hugely ramped up, we'd increase ventilator numbers and even ICU places. However I'm aware we don't live in an ideal World.

Cupatae

robinph wrote: »

What is the risk with sweat for this virus? How much time are you spending in close contact with other people in the changing rooms? Does the virus linger under a moving stream of hot water?

Its the distance it ll be travelling, cross contamination,multiple people in close proximity ect i hope im wrong as its a dose having to do home workouts but i wouldnt be surprised if they were one of the last to have the restrictions lifted.

Flyer1

Ace2007 wrote: »

public servants are still getting paid full wages -

And where does this money come from ?

Ace2007

Cupatae wrote: »

Its the distance it ll be travelling, cross contamination,multiple people in close proximity ect i hope im wrong as its a dose having to do home workouts but i wouldnt be surprised if they were one of the last to have the restrictions lifted.

I reckon the days of the big commercial gyms are gone, and the small gyms will do better - there are a number of say private gym, 1 to 1 PT session places - they can ensure equipment gets wiped down between each client etc.

robinph

Cupatae wrote: »

Its the distance it ll be travelling, cross contamination,multiple people in close proximity ect i hope im wrong as its a dose having to do home workouts but i wouldnt be surprised if they were one of the last to have the restrictions lifted.

Yes, they will be one of the last to reopen. But it is a far easier to control environment than a pub. The gym can set their equipment further apart, restrict numbers in each area at a time, enforce cleaning before and after use etc.

And everyone is sober, unlike in a pub which someone suggested would open before gyms.

Ace2007

Flyer1 wrote: »

And where does this money come from ?

Did you miss the bit about more than 75% of the workforce are still working, hence paying taxes? or the bit about some industries are boom and so more vat being paid in those areas?

easypazz

robinph wrote: »

Change the pubs to sit down at tables and table service only will limit people's movement and close contact, like in a cafe in other European countries.

Never going to happen in the UK and Ireland though.

Why? The smoking ban came in easy enough. This would be a short term measure anyway, possibly July / August when its warmer outside so beer gardens etc. can be used.

CtevenSrowder

Cupatae wrote: »

You do realise that me and you get no say on the date its lifted? do you want a date for arguement sake? May 5th with clear well defined plans and the backing of health officials

Happy?

I was never unhappy. Iwas responding to BanditLuke who was engaged in the following conversation.

awec wrote: »

Having an economy so that people are able to pay taxes to actually fund a health service is pretty important in terms of helping us get over this.

The idea that we can indefinitely fund a health service, pay doctors and nurses, pay for PPE, pay for additional ICU beds, pay for any future covid treatment, purchase any future covid vaccine and pay the 350 covid dole while also funding all the other essential government departments with a half-dead economy is fantasy stuff.

There is a cost to lockdown, an enormous one.

BanditLuke wrote: »

Who said indefinitely?

If you argue that you want to follow what the experts do, without ever giving your own timeline on what you'd do, then you support our current indefinite lockdown, as noone knows when the restrictions will begin to be lifted. And that is fine. But I suggest people be aware of the position they support.

WhiteMemento9

robinph wrote: »

What is the risk with sweat for this virus? How much time are you spending in close contact with other people in the changing rooms? Does the virus linger under a moving stream of hot water?

We probably don't know the answer to many of these questions? It might or it might not, it is a new virus and not enough studies have been done to answer those questions. We do know it stays on surfaces and can be picked up this way. We do know that people touch their face unconsciously a massive number of times a day. Those two things will mean even with our current knowledge it is a very hard sell.

People need to be very careful when advocating for these things from a personal perpective where they allow all logic to go out the window and start doing mental gymnastic to come up with all sorts of nonsense to support their own wants. You start sounding like a selfish, unbalanced, narcissistic asshole.

boetstark

Relaxation of restrictions. Limerick City is pretty busy right now. Queues of cars at traffic lights. Plenty of people on street, they are respecting social distancing. I counted 3 Chinese takeaways open and 2 off licences in one area.
Are people getting sick of lock down??
I hope that the restrictions won't be prolonged because of current flouting.
Ps I was out to deliver groceries to an elderly relation

BanditLuke

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Sweating pouring from people all over the place. Touching equipment that other people after them will use. Shared showers and changing rooms. It would be almost a perfect breeding ground to spread the virus.

Gyms and pubs/nightclubs will be the last to open this year. Concerts big sports events and that are gone until we have a proven vaccine or cure both of which is anyone's guess.

CtevenSrowder

Ace2007 wrote: »

you say a mostly closed economy - what is your proof of that?

over 75% of workers are still in employment is some shape or form. If you want a job tomorrow - there are plenty available.

This is absolutely not true. I'm sorry. I had an interview for a job in a shopping center and it was cancelled when the 2Km restriction came in. The job is now no longer available. And no doubt demand for it was huge. There are literally thousands of extra people on Welfare who will only be able to return to their jobs when the current restrictions are lifted.

Ace2007 wrote: »

This idea that the economy is on hold, is really in people's heads, large % of the work population are still working, public servants are still getting paid full wages -

Delivery companies can't keep up with demand, it's taken longer to get online deliverys now. Some sectors are booming more than ever before.

When I said closed I mean in the sense that there are too many people on Welfare for it to continue for a prolonged period of time. I didn't quite know how to word it exactly but I didn't mean closed economy in the true sense of the word e.g. North Korea is a closed economy.

Ace2007

boetstark wrote: »

Relaxation of restrictions. Limerick City is pretty busy right now. Queues of cars at traffic lights. Plenty of people on street, they are respecting social distancing. I counted 3 Chinese takeaways open and 2 off licences in one area.
Are people getting sick of lock down??
I hope that the restrictions won't be prolonged because of current flouting.
Ps I was out to deliver groceries to an elderly relation

None against takeaways ever been open, and many places are dong click and collect options as well.

Based on what you've said, i don't see any flouting of rules.