Relaxation of restrictions

TheCitizen

jay0109 wrote: »

I do't know how many times this has to be explained to people.

The Bank bailout cost about 40bn.
The other 80bn was the cost of running the country for 2010-2017 while we lived beyond our means...spending was greater than income. Because we didn't really make the hard decisions...we borrowed instead.

The point is that in total it was 120 billion added to the national debt at that time. Recent projections are that this crisis will add 30 billion to the national debt.

I'm not sure what your point is here? The baseline figures are the same 120 billion versus 30 billion and the 30 billion that this will/might cost will be money better spent

storker

easypazz wrote: »

Or when you could bring a replica grenade or gun on a plane.

Er...yes, that'll be the international terrorism bit I referred to. :rolleyes:

citysights

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Can anyone explain why Ireland’s largest hospital is practically empty even the respiratory lab is empty?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeplorableJim79/status/1243804933117358082?fbclid=IwAR0hvY9UntswyeyF9iRFQjGiIJFo0JHc_9c1SSuyZAEWc4SNvTk4Mk_hDbI

If it’s the same hospital that Dr. Holohan attended, it was mentioned in RTE news yesterday that when Dr Holohan attended there he found an empty waiting room and he said this was a concern as people need to attend hospital for other reasons apart from covid.

IAMAMORON

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Can anyone explain why Ireland’s largest hospital is practically empty even the respiratory lab is empty?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeplorableJim79/status/1243804933117358082?fbclid=IwAR0hvY9UntswyeyF9iRFQjGiIJFo0JHc_9c1SSuyZAEWc4SNvTk4Mk_hDbI

You also realise that you are quoting tweets from Jim Corr?

I love Jim btw, but he gets notions about how things are.

IAMAMORON

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I was just asking no need to get all defensive over it.

See my post on Jim Corr also.

GreeBo

donaghs wrote: »

Depends what the forseeable is. I think most people would prefer let the 20-50 year old workforce take the low risk of dying, if the alternative was another Great Depression.

Sure why not just murder anyone over 70 to solve the pension problem?

Or murder anyone over 50 to solve the housing problem for younger people?

This whole sacrificing some people to make life better for others seems like a great idea! Do you have a newsletter or Podcast I can subscribe to?

MadYaker

Coveney seems to think it's awful bad if they have to extend this to the end of the month, is that not what most people were sort of expecting? (apart from the nutters who think this can go on for months) Its not even a real lockdown compared to Spain or Italy.

AdamD

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The economy is actually not that fúcked either. It is a bailout of circa 8 billion. That is 4% of the bank bailout. I am media cynical and I have noticed TV3 news ramping up the economic panic the last few days. It actually is no real biggie.

To put things in perspective, every penny in extra dole payments gets poured back into our domestic economy. Where else can it be spent? 23% of it goes straight back to the government in VAT. The rest the supermarkets get and they will pay tax on their profits, and on and on.

It is not as bad as people are making out. It is not good and some businesses will go bust, but the world is not ending. This virus will pass and people will recover, despite the drama.

If you want drama go to central Lombardy and open up the Deaths column in the local newspaper, it is now filling 8 pages a day.

If you think this is only going to cost 8 billion...

In all the back of the hand calculations being done in this thread people seem to be missing out on the fact that not only are the government paying out huge amounts in new welfare, they're missing out on huge amounts of income tax these people would have been paying.

Not to mention a huge number of businesses will collapse, tourism has collapsed, companies will stop all capital investment, Consumer spending will plummet. This is going to be huge economically

facehugger99

MadYaker wrote: »

Coveney seems to think it's awful bad if they have to extend this to the end of the month, is that not what most people were sort of expecting? (apart from the nutters who think this can go on for months) Its not even a real lockdown compared to Spain or Italy.

He's softening up the bedroom-dwellers for the easing of restrictions that are coming in the next few weeks.

MadYaker

Not all consumr spending will plummet. Maybe I live in a bubble but it seems to me there's a lot of people who's income isn't affected by this but who's spending is way down due to there not being any pubs, restaurants, shops, weekends away etc I'm saving like I've never saved in my life!

hmmm

facehugger99 wrote: »

He's softening up the bedroom-dwellers for the easing of restrictions that are coming in the next few weeks.

Full lockdown now!!!! :rolleyes:

I see the Twitter mob have now decided that us all wearing masks is the solution. First it was Paddy's day cancellations was the answer, then shutting the pubs, then stopping everyone going for a walk, now it's masks. It's exhausting. Another week of this and they'll have us all welded into our houses.

I think we still don't understand enough as to how the virus is spread to really bring in much lifting of restrictions. Unfortunately, because the current restrictions are a blind man wielding a sledgehammer to squash a nut.

Yakult

hmmm wrote: »

Full lockdown now!!!! :rolleyes:

I see the Twitter mob have now decided that us all wearing masks is the solution. First it was Paddy's day cancellations was the answer, then shutting the pubs, then stopping everyone going for a walk, now it's masks. It's exhausting. Another week of this and they'll have us all welded into our houses.

I think we still don't understand enough as to how the virus is spread to really bring in much lifting of restrictions. Unfortunately, because the current restrictions are a blind man wielding a sledgehammer to squash a nut.

Theres your problem. Twitter. It's ****e during the best of times. Avoid like the plague.

boring accountant

tdf7187 wrote: »

The restrictions are already causing disproportionate hardship and should be relaxed if not entirely removed. Sweden has none and is doing fine. But hey it's great for the coppers and their overtime so celebrate.

It’s great for anyone with a civil service job for life i.e. the people making these decisions.

As much as a quarter of the workforce will be out of work this week and it will probably top 35% if restrictions continue. The bounce back will not be what people hope as there is no more room for monetary stimulus. Fiscal stimulus comes with higher taxes down the line which will dampen employment growth.

Every day of shut down will cost us weeks worth of economic misery.

TheCitizen

hmmm wrote: »

Full lockdown now!!!! :rolleyes:

I see the Twitter mob have now decided that us all wearing masks is the solution. First it was Paddy's day cancellations was the answer, then shutting the pubs, then stopping everyone going for a walk, now it's masks. It's exhausting. Another week of this and they'll have us all welded into our houses.

I think we still don't understand enough as to how the virus is spread to really bring in much lifting of restrictions. Unfortunately, because the current restrictions are a blind man wielding a sledgehammer to squash a nut.

So you think that the current strategy is OTT do you? Do you think that the powers that be make decisions like this likely? Strange attitude from some posters on here

scamalert

hmmm wrote: »

Full lockdown now!!!! :rolleyes:

I see the Twitter mob have now decided that us all wearing masks is the solution. First it was Paddy's day cancellations was the answer, then shutting the pubs, then stopping everyone going for a walk, now it's masks. It's exhausting. Another week of this and they'll have us all welded into our houses.

I think we still don't understand enough as to how the virus is spread to really bring in much lifting of restrictions. Unfortunately, because the current restrictions are a blind man wielding a sledgehammer to squash a nut.

yes the social media experts. everyone knows everything type of clowns with their prophecies.

hmmm

AdamD wrote: »

Not to mention a huge number of businesses will collapse, tourism has collapsed, companies will stop all capital investment, Consumer spending will plummet. This is going to be huge economically

We're down a billion in tax revenue in March alone, and this lockdown was only in place for half the month.

boring accountant

GreeBo wrote: »

Sure why not just murder anyone over 70 to solve the pension problem?

Or murder anyone over 50 to solve the housing problem for younger people?

This whole sacrificing some people to make life better for others seems like a great idea! Do you have a newsletter or Podcast I can subscribe to?

No matter what decision you take you’re sacrificing one group of people for another. All covid related deaths are deaths from natural causes. It is totally unnatural to force people to stay at home and stop working. This is the greatest act of self harm ever committed by a people.

hmmm

TheCitizen wrote: »

So you think that the current strategy is OTT do you? Do you think that the powers that be make decisions like this likely? Strange attitude from some posters on here

The current strategy is there because we don't know enough to make it more targeted. Once we know more about how the virus spreads (not Twitter speculation), we'll be able to target restrictions more accurately. South Korea didn't implement much in the way of a lockdown, but they have been successful in controlling spread - there's an answer in there somewhere.

brick tamland

Yakult wrote: »

Theres your problem. Twitter. It's ****e during the best of times. Avoid like the plague.

To be honest I find twitter (well the people in my feed anyway) are way more balanced then some of the misery lovers on boards. Cant even look in the big Covid-19 thread anymore, its bat**** mental.

sbs2010

Wuhan are relaxing restrictions 7-14 days after no new cases reported.

That sounds reasonable. So our lockdown should end 14 days after last confirmed case. As long as there's loads of testing going on all the time.

IAMAMORON

TheCitizen wrote: »

The recent banking crisis added 120 billion to the national debt. This will be something like 30 billion according to recent projections, and it's bailing out citizens and enterprise in this country. Money better spent with a return from it unlike the black hole they poured 120 billion into.

I have not heard 30 billion been bandied about anywhere. The figure is between 8-9 billion. Just a bit of math for you to get things in perspective.

There are an extra 283,000 unemployed from the pandemic. They are getting paid an extra 350 pw. That is the same as an extra 99 million a week. It takes 10 weeks to get to a billion in extra payments.

This is nowhere near 30 billion.

It is also worth noting that all the payments will eventually arrive back to the state via taxation. 23% in VAT for starters. A certain could theoretically be saved, but whilst this is unlikely, it will eventually be spent.

So of the actual 8 billion Pascal O'Donoghue quoted the state will get back 23 % immediately, about 2 billion. The rest gets spent on retail, all this money is also subject to tax … etc etc.

Phuck the journalists, they have to spoof about something, the economy is as good a thing to bash as anything right now. The fact remains that the bailout is there to enable the entire country to survive during a crisis. It is emergency spending money which the state will get back indirectly. The supermarkets are making a tonne of money right now, they have never been busier. Think of all the times you might go for a meal or have a pint etc or even fast food, you are now having to do that yourself. The supermarkets are creaming it.

Unlike Winston Smith in 1984 I have been a good citizen and not left the house since last Friday when the lock down was announced.

Working from home and sporting a now epic mane of a pandemic beard.

How have the Federales been enforcing the lock down in Dublin city centre?

Is there check points and the goon squad dragging people of buses?

TheCitizen

hmmm wrote: »

The current strategy is there because we don't know enough to make it more targeted. Once we know more about how the virus spreads (not Twitter speculation), we'll be able to target restrictions more accurately. South Korea didn't implement much in the way of a lockdown, but they have been successful in controlling spread - there's an answer in there somewhere.

Did they not? What did South Korea implement by way of lockdown exactly, something similar to ours perhaps? We're not in full lockdown

IAMAMORON

sbs2010 wrote: »

Wuhan are relaxing restrictions 7-14 days after no new cases reported.

That sounds reasonable. So our lockdown should end 14 days after last confirmed case. As long as there's loads of testing going on all the time.

I have given up believing a word of anything coming out of China. They lied.

Given their population of 1.4 billion I cannot believe that only 80 odd thousand got infected and 3,300 people died? Compare that to Spain and Italy and now the States? They are covering it up and should be ashamed of themselves.

lainey_d_123

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah your posts are always dramatic, you need to chill. What I mean is this whole thing will change the world in many ways with travel and gatherings etc., never mind how f*cked the economy is. It's a watershed moment like 9/11.

And saying things will never be normal again isn't dramatic?

People ALWAYS say things will never be 'normal' again following something like this, as if every aspect of life will be irreparably changed. What happened after 9/11? People were flying again within weeks. There were more security restrictions but people started to get on with their lives again. Same with the London tube bombings.

Obviously this is different because it's a pandemic, not a terror attack, but the principle is the same in that life HAS to carry on. People have to work, people will need to travel, people will have to take public transport.

The Olympics are scheduled for July 2021, so the Olympic committee are satisfied that things will be back to normal enough to allow for global travel, crowds at sporting events and pretty much totally normal (as we know it now) life by then. There will have to be qualifying events held for those Olympics in the months preceding the Games, requiring global travel and mingling. Do you think they're wrong and it won't happen then?

TheCitizen

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I have not heard 30 billion been bandied about anywhere. The figure is between 8-9 billion. Just a bit of math for you to get things in perspective.

There are an extra 283,000 unemployed from the pandemic. They are getting paid an extra 350 pw. That is the same as an extra 99 million a week. It takes 10 weeks to get to a billion in extra payments.

This is nowhere near 30 billion.

It is also worth noting that all the payments will eventually arrive back to the state via taxation. 23% in VAT for starters. A certain could theoretically be saved, but whilst this is unlikely, it will eventually be spent.

So of the actual 8 billion Pascal O'Donoghue quoted the state will get back 23 % immediately, about 2 billion. The rest gets spent on retail, all this money is also subject to tax … etc etc.

Phuck the journalists, they have to spoof about something, the economy is as good a thing to bash as anything right now. The fact remains that the bailout is there to enable the entire country to survive during a crisis. It is emergency spending money which the state will get back indirectly. The supermarkets are making a tonne of money right now, they have never been busier. Think of all the times you might go for a meal or have a pint etc or even fast food, you are now having to do that yourself. The supermarkets are creaming it.

Well 8 billion is better news than 30 billion which was the point I was making in contrast to the overall cost of the banking crisis to this state which ended up being an estimated 120 billion in total.

The 30 billion figure I heard was a commentator who was referring to projections that include funding and stimulus when we come out at the other end. That 30 billion is an overall projected cost or addition to the national debt due to this.

odyssey06

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I have not heard 30 billion been bandied about anywhere. The figure is between 8-9 billion. Just a bit of math for you to get things in perspective.

There are an extra 283,000 unemployed from the pandemic. They are getting paid an extra 350 pw. That is the same as an extra 99 million a week. It takes 10 weeks to get to a billion in extra payments. This is nowhere near 30 billion.

It is also worth noting that all the payments will eventually arrive back to the state via taxation. 23% in VAT for starters. A certain could theoretically be saved, but whilst this is unlikely, it will eventually be spent.

So of the actual 8 billion Pascal O'Donoghue quoted the state will get back 23 % immediately, about 2 billion. The rest gets spent on retail, all this money is also subject to tax … etc etc.
.

It was 24 billion in this RTE report, and VAT isn't charged on many essential supermarket items.

The economic cost of the coronavirus crisis through fiscal supports and deferred tax revenue will likely be over €16 billion... That would be on top of an estimated €8 billion cost of the measures already put in place by Government to tackle the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic... The latest Exchequer figures from the Department of Finance showed that total tax revenues for the first quarter of 2020 were €800m lower than expectations.
...
The Government reported an overall Exchequer deficit of €2.535 billion for the three months to the end of March, a massive increase of 162% on the deficit of €966m the same time last year.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/202...equer-figures/

Jim Gazebo

jmayo wrote: »

Countries have actually managed it.
Granted they are usually on their knees and nearing defeat.



Because they couldn't give a sh** about others.
They are young healthy and don't think they will need a hospital, so what if they are overwhelmed.

They are "I'm alright so feck the rest of ye".

They are part of the modern generations who have been reared in an Ireland which for the most part gave them almost everything they wanted when they wanted it.
Granted the only hiccup to that has been the cost of accommodation and ability to buy a home.
I guess some of them may even be happy that lots of the elderly will be popping their clogs and the houses they have been selfishly taking up will be released to the market.




Fooking morons.
Absolute fooking morons.



As I said they couldn't give a rats ass about anyone.
All they care about is their lifestyle is being impinged and they will lose money.

And even though they keep on about the economy, they don't appear to notice that we are a huge exporting economy and there isn't demand for some of those goods and services in other countries at the moment.
Demand for anything bar medical related has fallen off a clift.

Also even if we open pubs and restaurants, do they expect them to be full of people.
Of course the me feiners and the morons will be back, but will the rest of the people.
The part of the economy that is tourism is non existent at the moment and for the foreseeable future as people simply are not travelling.

And when the whinging about the economy is not seen to be working, the old faithful is dragged out, the onset of mass mental illness.

FFS one would think half the country is suffering from mental illness or suicidal tendencies listening to some posters.

It is like listening to kids complain they are bored, even though they have multiple 24hr a day TV stations, radio, internet, tablets, mobile phones, computer games, computers and those good old fashioned things called books are even now available on electronic devices.

I don't know how you escaped here without comment, what an insulting statement to the majority of young people. The minority always ruins it for the majority. Most young people are doing their best and have every right to worry about not having money at the end of this, consider they have the rest of their life to live!! I trust you wouldn't have a care in the world about that if it was the other way around.

I could say the same for you, you don't give a rat's ass about young people's lives just because you are the one being protected.

ITman88

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I have not heard 30 billion been bandied about anywhere. The figure is between 8-9 billion. Just a bit of math for you to get things in perspective.

There are an extra 283,000 unemployed from the pandemic. They are getting paid an extra 350 pw. That is the same as an extra 99 million a week. It takes 10 weeks to get to a billion in extra payments.

This is nowhere near 30 billion.

It is also worth noting that all the payments will eventually arrive back to the state via taxation. 23% in VAT for starters. A certain could theoretically be saved, but whilst this is unlikely, it will eventually be spent.

So of the actual 8 billion Pascal O'Donoghue quoted the state will get back 23 % immediately, about 2 billion. The rest gets spent on retail, all this money is also subject to tax … etc etc.

Phuck the journalists, they have to spoof about something, the economy is as good a thing to bash as anything right now. The fact remains that the bailout is there to enable the entire country to survive during a crisis. It is emergency spending money which the state will get back indirectly. The supermarkets are making a tonne of money right now, they have never been busier. Think of all the times you might go for a meal or have a pint etc or even fast food, you are now having to do that yourself. The supermarkets are creaming it.

The economy from a bedroom critic.

People aren’t spending and it is a massive problem, and when this is over consumer confidence is on the floor for purchases bar essentials.

There is 2 arguments taking place in this thread and the reason the economic argument will continue is because of posts like above, completely dismissing the catastrophic effects we will face into with an extended lockdown.

The state will not get the revenue back directly, people are not spending, and it will take considerable time to instill consumer confidence.

IAMAMORON

AdamD wrote: »

If you think this is only going to cost 8 billion...

In all the back of the hand calculations being done in this thread people seem to be missing out on the fact that not only are the government paying out huge amounts in new welfare, they're missing out on huge amounts of income tax these people would have been paying.

Not to mention a huge number of businesses will collapse, tourism has collapsed, companies will stop all capital investment, Consumer spending will plummet. This is going to be huge economically

I agree, but it is only for a few months.

Too many people hyping it up. You are correct about income tax, but it is short term.

I hear " huge " and " massive " superlatives getting bandied about a lot. But the reality is a few months. Things will change and things will improve.