Relaxation of restrictions

donaghs

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But it won't be feasible for huge numbers of them to do this in a 'watertight' way: elderly people living with children/grandchildren for instance.

So just keep the lockdown indefinitely ?

We need to look at all options. Perhaps in the situation described above special arrangement can be made to cocoon the household. Still better than everyone in lockdown with no end in sight - no job to go back to.

IAMAMORON

hmmm wrote: »

We don't need to test everyone to get the spread down.

We need to find people with symptoms. We trace their close contacts. We test the contacts. We are scaling up to thousands of people doing contact tracing, and the capability to do 15,000 tests a day.

If Britain is only committing to testing 100,000 a week how are you conceiving that we have the resources for 15,000 a day?

Think about it rationally?

lord quackinton

easypazz wrote: »

In simple english bojo and donald thought they were smart, and now thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, will die and their medical professionals will endure incredible turmoil.

Whether by pure luck or whatever, our leader is also a GP and got all the medical stuff the first time it was presented to him and acted swiftly.

At the moment our figures are not great
I am not trying to be political but we have a high death rate for our population
We could easily end up with one of the highest European death rates, we are
Currently top 15

My point is the Irish government and the health professionals have done well as they could
Will you blame the Chinese, Italian, Spanish , french leaders for being smart and causing the deaths of thousands?

donaghs

hmmm wrote: »

We don't need to test everyone to get the spread down.

We need to find people with symptoms. We trace their close contacts. We test the contacts. We are scaling up to thousands of people doing contact tracing, and the capability to do 15,000 tests a day.

In Iceland widespread testing found half the people with coronavirus had NO symptoms. What’s the point of ignoring them? Except that they are harder to locate? (Unless you test everyone)

easypazz

the UK, Health Secretary Matt Hancock -- who has himself just emerged from self-isolation after testing positive for Covid-19 -- suggested that Britons who've had the virus might be issued with a certificate, which has already been dubbed an immunity passport.
"We are looking at an immunity certificate, how people who've had the disease, have got the antibodies and therefore have immunity, can show that and get back as much as possible to normal life," he said.

easypazz

lord quackinton wrote: »

At the moment our figures are not great
I am not trying to be political but we have a high death rate for our population
We could easily end up with one of the highest European death rates, we are
Currently top 15

My point is the Irish government and the health professionals have done well as they could
Will you blame the Chinese, Italian, Spanish , french leaders for being smart and causing the deaths of thousands?

Our ICU numbers are good. The death rate in Ireland "appears" to be clustered around numerous nursing homes.

Next week will tell a lot, but we heard that last week too.

Time will tell, but as things stand, I am cautiously optimistic.

BanditLuke

Think they will be looking at bringing in extra restrictions tbh. I've noticed a lot of extra cars, cyclists, joggers, families, teenagers etc...going down the main road past the house the last couple of days. I'm praying for sh1t weather to keep these idiots inside as the message doesn't seem to be hitting home.

Loafing Oaf

easypazz wrote: »

the UK, Health Secretary Matt Hancock -- who has himself just emerged from self-isolation after testing positive for Covid-19 -- suggested that Britons who've had the virus might be issued with a certificate, which has already been dubbed an immunity passport.
"We are looking at an immunity certificate, how people who've had the disease, have got the antibodies and therefore have immunity, can show that and get back as much as possible to normal life," he said.

A proposal that has already been rubbished by a leading immunologist:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/expert-trashes-plan-coronavirus-immunity-21805760

Every time you think there's light at the end of the tunnel with this, it turns out to be an oncoming train...

easypazz

BanditLuke wrote: »

Think they will be looking at bringing in extra restrictions tbh. I've noticed a lot of extra cars, cyclists, joggers, families, teenagers etc...going down the main road past the house the last couple of days. I'm praying for sh1t weather to keep these idiots inside as the message doesn't seem to be hitting home.

As long as they are engaged in social distancing what is the issue?

donaghs

hmmm wrote: »

We don't need to test everyone to get the spread down.

We need to find people with symptoms. We trace their close contacts. We test the contacts. We are scaling up to thousands of people doing contact tracing, and the capability to do 15,000 tests a day.

In Iceland widespread testing found half the people with coronavirus had NO symptoms. What’s the point of ignoring them? Except that they are harder to locate? (Unless you test everyone)

donaghs

easypazz wrote: »

As long as they are engaged in social distancing what is the issue?

If social distancing lockdown is becoming unquestionable Dogma, the religious zealot hardline faction won’t tolerate a dog walker or a cyclist, and logical arguments have no place in dogma.

rob316

easypazz wrote: »

As long as they are engaged in social distancing what is the issue?

Stop with your making sense, they're killing granny

road_high

rob316 wrote: »

Stop with your making sense, they're killing granny

Just my hunch from observations but appears to me the severe strict hygiene and measures need to be very focused on Care homes and hospitals where it appears the bulk of cases and transmissions are and have been occurring. Instead of a lot extremely low risk settings which are actually even safer than those very places and are closed

Jurgen Klopp

donaghs wrote: »

If social distancing lockdown is becoming unquestionable Dogma, the religious zealot hardline faction won’t tolerate a dog walker or a cyclist, and logical arguments have no place in dogma.

One thing I've seen some say is a next step if people don't adere and numbers keeps going is people not allowed to leave homes and the army and police to drop basics to every door

How in the fcuk could that be managed here?
Quick googling gives the Gardai number about 14,500 and the army with reservists is circa 9,000

Even if you drag in the naval and reserve personal it gives about 1,400, Air Corps 733

So that's not even 1,000 personnel for each of the 26 counties to go door to door?

I think the highest we can go here compared to current lockdown is no one to leave the house unless for necessary stuff but can't really enforce it. Kinds bolloxed after that really IMO

lainey_d_123

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

One thing I've seen some say is a next step if people don't adere and numbers keeps going is people not allowed to leave homes and the army and police to drop basics to every door

How in the fcuk could that be managed here?
Quick googling gives the Gardai number about 14,500 and the army with reservists is circa 9,000

Even if you drag in the naval and reserve personal it gives about 1,400, Air Corps 733

So that's not even 1,000 personnel for each of the 26 counties to go door to door?

I think the highest we can go here compared to current lockdown is no one to leave the house unless for necessary stuff but can't really enforce it. Kinds bolloxed after that really IMO

It's just becoming ridiculous and hysterical.

There is absolutely fcuk all wrong with people exercising and getting some sun, if they're respecting social distancing. Nothing at all. The chances of spreading a virus when you're walking in a forest or jogging through a field is minute.

Perhaps instead of shaming people who are just trying to keep fit and mentally well, people should put more effort into helping those who are high risk or actually ill with covid-19 so they don't have to venture out to get food, putting themselves and others at risk. Might give the busybodies something to do.

Jurgen Klopp

BanditLuke wrote: »

Think they will be looking at bringing in extra restrictions tbh. I've noticed a lot of extra cars, cyclists, joggers, families, teenagers etc...going down the main road past the house the last couple of days. I'm praying for sh1t weather to keep these idiots inside as the message doesn't seem to be hitting home.

I think the max this country is capable of doing even if we wanted to is telling people they can't leave their homes at all unless for work, food or emergencies.

Even at that bar some checkpoints we can't really enforce it I'd say really.

road_high

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

One thing I've seen some say is a next step if people don't adere and numbers keeps going is people not allowed to leave homes and the army and police to drop basics to every door

How in the fcuk could that be managed here?
Quick googling gives the Gardai number about 14,500 and the army with reservists is circa 9,000

Even if you drag in the naval and reserve personal it gives about 1,400, Air Corps 733

So that's not even 1,000 personnel for each of the 26 counties to go door to door?

I think the highest we can go here compared to current lockdown is no one to leave the house unless for necessary stuff but can't really enforce it. Kinds bolloxed after that really IMO

But sure virtually nothing is open now bar food and fuel? All with strict social distancing going on. We need to know how the fcuk it’s spreading at the moment. If supermarkets are spreading it like wildfire I’d say fair enough but do we know that? Where are the majority of new cases coming from does anyone know?

road_high

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

I think the max this country is capable of doing even if we wanted to is telling people they can't leave their homes at all unless for work, food or emergencies.

Even at that bar some checkpoints we can't really enforce it I'd say really.

I think we’ve done extremely well with huge public buy in. Go too hard and that will be lost and people will say “fcuk this” and risk it. Where exactly are there any large groups of people in close social contact now really going on anymore? I think we’ve done all we can, the focus needs to be on the high risk settings now

Jurgen Klopp

road_high wrote: »

But sure virtually nothing is open now bar food and fuel? All with strict social distancing going on. We need to know how the fcuk it’s spreading at the moment. If supermarkets are spreading it like wildfire I’d say fair enough but do we know that? Where are the majority of new cases coming from does anyone know?

They are saying nursing homes are a big problem, given the age and health profile it's to be expected.

However, if Icelands study which says circa 50% infected show no symptoms all you need is 1 staff member out of dozens to come in and you're ****ed

lord quackinton

Seems to be a lot of cherry picking going on of soft targets
People out walking dogs in woods, cyclists and runners going too far etc. And none of these have a chance of affecting anyone as they are going solo or with household members

Yet there are loads of areas where wild drunken parties are happening, i have had 20 tenants in 3 towns alone complaining about crazy house parties and not one guard showing up when rang

lainey_d_123

road_high wrote: »

But sure virtually nothing is open now bar food and fuel? All with strict social distancing going on. We need to know how the fcuk it’s spreading at the moment. If supermarkets are spreading it like wildfire I’d say fair enough but do we know that? Where are the majority of new cases coming from does anyone know?

Surely most of the current cases are not that new? They're people who were infected up to a couple of weeks ago and only now showing symptoms.

As to where else it's coming from, doctor's surgeries and hospitals are a good bet. People who are vulnerable are going to be spending time in those places due to their existing conditions. All it takes is one person to have the virus coughing in the waiting room, and they've just infected everyone, and probably the doctor and the reception staff. People working in supermarkets and shops are also vulnerable. All it takes is one person coming it and coughing or sneezing a bit too close and then the employee has it, and everyone they live with.

dsmythy

road_high wrote: »

But sure virtually nothing is open now bar food and fuel? All with strict social distancing going on. We need to know how the fcuk it’s spreading at the moment. If supermarkets are spreading it like wildfire I’d say fair enough but do we know that? Where are the majority of new cases coming from does anyone know?

On a 5 minute walk I do see far too many people simply ignoring everything. Same as in supermarkets. Most are fine but some mess about and come much too close. 3 members of staff blocking an aisle having a chat.. One infection turns into 10. One of that 10 might go to work in some communications company still open and get spreading there. The mini panic buy when near lockdown was announced. Those infections will be passing through the ICU now and soon. Then there are the care home disasters happening. Those trips to mams and dads which shouldn't be happening are definitely happening if other behaviour of a minority is anything to go by.

MOH

road_high wrote: »

But sure virtually nothing is open now bar food and fuel? All with strict social distancing going on. We need to know how the fcuk it’s spreading at the moment. If supermarkets are spreading it like wildfire I’d say fair enough but do we know that? Where are the majority of new cases coming from does anyone know?

At a guess, from a week or two ago.

Typically 3-5 days incubation. Sounds like week or so for test results. Presumably there's a couple of days between developing symptoms and getting tested. So a lot of the new numbers for any given day are people who got it 10-14 days ago. In which case the effect of the current restrictions hasn't even been seen yet.

MadYaker

BanditLuke wrote: »

Think they will be looking at bringing in extra restrictions tbh. I've noticed a lot of extra cars, cyclists, joggers, families, teenagers etc...going down the main road past the house the last couple of days. I'm praying for sh1t weather to keep these idiots inside as the message doesn't seem to be hitting home.

I have to say I noticed this today too. Way more cars on the roads but the streets are still empty enough where I live. I would've liked to see a few checkpoints around the place.

Jurgen Klopp

road_high wrote: »

I think we’ve done extremely well with huge public buy in. Go too hard and that will be lost and people will say “fcuk this” and risk it. Where exactly are there any large groups of people in close social contact now really going on anymore? I think we’ve done all we can, the focus needs to be on the high risk settings now

Yes I agree. I think anything else harder people are expecting is just unrealistic hysterics. I get the fear and wanting to control it but I don't think there's much else that can be done past current levels really

Stheno

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Surely most of the current cases are not that new? They're people who were infected up to a couple of weeks ago and only now showing symptoms.

As to where else it's coming from, doctor's surgeries and hospitals are a good bet. People who are vulnerable are going to be spending time in those places due to their existing conditions. All it takes is one person to have the virus coughing in the waiting room, and they've just infected everyone, and probably the doctor and the reception staff. People working in supermarkets and shops are also vulnerable. All it takes is one person coming it and coughing or sneezing a bit too close and then the employee has it, and everyone they live with.

Most doctors in Ireland do consultations by phone now and you only go to the surgery if absolutely necessary

I know with my doctor that you wait in your car until they are ready to see you

Are you based in the UK or Ireland?

lainey_d_123

Stheno wrote: »

Most doctors in Ireland do consultations by phone now and you only go to the surgery if absolutely necessary

I know with my doctor that you wait in your car until they are ready to see you

Are you based in the UK or Ireland?

I'm in London. Hardly anyone has a car and if they do, they don't drive it to the doctor. Mine doesn't even have a car park. It is necessary to go to the surgery if you need blood tests or something like that and some hospital appointments are essential, as is A&E if you really need it. My friend went to A&E the other week with a broken ankle and there were people coughing in the waiting area. Lots of people will have to go to the hospital for some other reason and be exposed to the virus.

These situations are far, far more likely to spread the virus compared to people cycling in the park or going out for a walk in the sun.

Stheno

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm in London. Hardly anyone has a car and if they do, they don't drive it to the doctor. Mine doesn't even have a car park. It is necessary to go to the surgery if you need blood tests or something like that and some hospital appointments are essential, as is A&E if you really need it. My friend went to A&E the other week with a broken ankle and there were people coughing in the waiting area. Lots of people will have to go to the hospital for some other reason and be exposed to the virus.

These situations are far, far more likely to spread the virus compared to people cycling in the park or going out for a walk in the sun.

That's quite different from Irelznd so

Our CMO had turn the other day and had to go to A and E and issued an advisory as it was empty and he was concerned people are not seeking medical advice as did some GPs

BanditLuke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's just becoming ridiculous and hysterical.

There is absolutely fcuk all wrong with people exercising and getting some sun, if they're respecting social distancing. Nothing at all. The chances of spreading a virus when you're walking in a forest or jogging through a field is minute.

Perhaps instead of shaming people who are just trying to keep fit and mentally well, people should put more effort into helping those who are high risk or actually ill with covid-19 so they don't have to venture out to get food, putting themselves and others at risk. Might give the busybodies something to do.

This guy says stay home. I think we should be listening to him not some random guy on Boards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejlbCmRJMW4

RIALTO1

I know someone working in a chocolate factory. Still open and operating, with no social distancing. Essential apparently. Of course they can do more.