Relaxation of restrictions

VinLieger

robinph wrote: »

Does it actually matter that much if the economy in country X collapses if at the same time it also collapses in every single other country?

It does matter in normal circumstances where an economy is measured by how well it is doing against others, but if they all fall off by the same then has anything actually changed?

Also what will happen to the economy if we cripple our HSE and thousands die unneccessarily?

AdamD

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who's spying on couples going for walks? And calling guards on lone cyclists?
You're just making sh*t up now.
You can go for a walk and no one is going to do anything about it, my local park St Anne's is as busy as a hot summers day every day during this crisis.

What this has really exposed is how many "snowflakes" there are who can't handle a bit of inconvenience. I really don't know how you lot would have survived during actual hard times throughout history.

Always good when somebody uses 'Snowflakes' in a post. Easy to spot who to ignore

never_mind

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Significantly more deaths than the other three Scandinavian countries put together. But who needs your life when you have your sanity eh?

To be fair, what’s the point of living if we had to live like this long term. A very vocal minority of boardsies dismiss mental health constantly.

lainey_d_123

VinLieger wrote: »

Its saying some level of restrictions, basically concentrates on the big question that people should not assume schools etc will deffinitely be open come september

It doesn't even say that. It said that 'might' be the case. It's a totally pointless article which tells us absolutely nothing.

AdamD wrote: »

Always good when somebody uses 'Snowflakes' in a post. Easy to spot who to ignore

Indeed. A totally moronic term.

My grandfather is 92 years old, fought in a war, has lived through all sorts, and he is moaning and complaining every single day about these restrictions. In his eyes, this is worse than anything he's ever lived because he's lost his freedom. I wonder if some of the sociopaths bleating on about how 'it's not that bad' to be forced to stay in for months on end ever stopped to consider why prison is considered to be one of the worst punishments there is? Because a loss of freedom is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. And that's what lockdown is. Especially for those of us trapped in tiny spaces - my room is literally not much bigger than a prison cell and I have no outside space at all. I live in a flat with no living room, no TV, no space to exercise, no space to work. I'm literally doing conference calls from my bed because I don't even have a desk. My neck and back are in absolute tatters.

That's not to say we shouldn't be doing it or that it's pointless, but anyone who can't understand why a significant proportion of the population is really, genuinely struggling at the moment is missing a chunk of empathy and probably a few brain cells as well.

I suppose my grandad is a 'snowflake', is he?

ixoy

Is there a sense that some elderly people, who should be cocooning, are flouting it because they feel they don't want to spend months, and years, of whatever time they have left stuck in the house?

never_mind

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It doesn't even say that. It said that 'might' be the case. It's a totally pointless article which tells us absolutely nothing.



Indeed. A totally moronic term.

My grandfather is 92 years old, fought in a war, has lived through all sorts, and he is moaning and complaining every single day about these restrictions. In his eyes, this is worse than anything he's ever lived because he's lost his freedom. I wonder if some of the sociopaths bleating on about how 'it's not that bad' to be forced to stay in for months on end ever stopped to consider why prison is considered to be one of the worst punishments there is? Because a loss of freedom is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. And that's what lockdown is. Especially for those of us trapped in tiny spaces - my room is literally not much bigger than a prison cell and I have no outside space at all. I live in a flat with no living room, no TV, no space to exercise, no space to work. I'm literally doing conference calls from my bed because I don't even have a desk. My neck and back are in absolute tatters.

That's not to say we shouldn't be doing it or that it's pointless, but anyone who can't understand why a significant proportion of the population is really, genuinely struggling at the moment is missing a chunk of empathy and probably a few brain cells as well.

I suppose my grandad is a 'snowflake', is he?

I would imagine that those who don’t understand those who are struggling are those privileged enough to have a house that can facilitate WFH and a nice garden to relax in. My room is big enough for a desk but the desk I bought is for a child I’m guessing. My already horrible back has a disc protrusion so this is going to make it acutely worse.

ITman88

ixoy wrote: »

Is there a sense that some elderly people, who should be cocooning, are flouting it because they feel they don't want to spend months, and years, of whatever time they have left stuck in the house?

Absolutely.

Certain posters want to preserve life at all costs, cocooned away in a shell for years.

It reminds me of that old joke where the old guy asks the doctor how long will he live?

The doctor asks does he drink, smoke, socialise regularly, eat fast food, do any dangerous activities, sleep around or drive a fast car?

When the guy replies no, the doc ask well WTF do you want to live for then!!

lord quackinton

never_mind wrote: »

I would imagine that those who don’t understand those who are struggling are those privileged enough to have a house that can facilitate WFH and a nice garden to relax in. My room is big enough for a desk but the desk I bought is for a child I’m guessing. My already horrible back has a disc protrusion so this is going to make it acutely worse.

Well said

Nermal

ixoy wrote: »

Is there a sense that some elderly people, who should be cocooning, are flouting it because they feel they don't want to spend months, and years, of whatever time they have left stuck in the house?

Indeed. The less time one has left, the more one feels the burden of time wasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/terminal-cancer-lockdown-death

ITman88

Nermal wrote: »

Indeed. The less time one has left, the more one feels the burden of time wasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/terminal-cancer-lockdown-death

That was a rough read. Jeasus

Gael23

Simon Harris said we need to get to a place where a person only infects one other person. Surely that’s impossible to achieve with the best efforts of anyone?

Plumbthedepths

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah were deffinitely gonna be out of all restrictions by next week....

But lets just check and see what the advisors are saying

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-lockdown-steps-could-remain-into-winter-says-expert-1.4221164?mode=amp

Not sustainable, neither the economy or people could tolerate that .

growleaves

Certain posters want to preserve life at all costs, cocooned away in a shell for years.

Its an extreme form of biological reductionism. Sacrifice all quality of life in the hopes of preserving it.

Jurgen Klopp

VinLieger wrote: »

Also what will happen to the economy if we cripple our HSE and thousands die unneccessarily?

Or if you flip it, when the economy tanks to a certain extent you can no longer provide the hospitals with any funding for medical supplies, medicines and equipment, social welfare payments dry up and you can't provided the Gardai with resources needed to keep order.

Then you get the same scenario as just letting it run wild.

The lockdown as long as it takes people are actually starting to scare me as much as the remove all restrictions for the economy types.

Both will end up achieving the same results.

ZX7R

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not sustainable, neither the economy or people could tolerate that .

The article states some of the measures at the moment may have to be kept in place for the foreseeable future.

screamer

We’re going to have to restart the economy and soon. The more I read about coronavirus the more I see that for old people it’s pretty much a case of catch it and you’ll be lucky to survive. Once on Ventilation only 20% make it, and at that, there are younger people included in those stats. There are nursing homes here just giving palliative care to older residents who catch coronavirus because of their age and illnesses they have no hope of survival. It’s very sad but it’s reality. I think we’re going to have to ask older and high risk people to stay quarantined or cocooned and the rest of the population is going to have to resume normal life with physical distancing and other measures strictly enforced. Much as I’d love to think we can as a country just wait this out, I cannot see us being able to wipe a year off our lives and economy and expect it all to be fine afterwards.

ITman88

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Or if you flip it, when the economy tanks to a certain extent you can no longer provide the hospitals with any funding for medical supplies, medicines and equipment, social welfare payments dry up and you can't provided the Gardai with resources needed to keep order.

Then you get the same scenario as just letting it run wild.

The lockdown as long as it takes people are actually starting to scare me as much as the remove all restrictions for the economy types.

Both will end up achieving the same results.

Exactly.

Very few suggest removing the restrictions entirely.

The argument is they can’t remain in place indefinitely past April 12th.

What some posters don’t seem to understand is the reason for the restrictions.
The restrictions are buying time for the health service, they are not going to save a great amount of lives long term.

Some posters believe we can all sit in and wait for the vaccine in 18 months.

Gael23

screamer wrote: »

We’re going to have to restart the economy and soon. The more I read about coronavirus the more I see that for old people it’s pretty much a case of catch it and you’ll be lucky to survive. Once on Ventilation only 20% make it, and at that, there are younger people included in those stats. There are nursing homes here just giving palliative care to older residents who catch coronavirus because of their age and illnesses they have no hope of survival. It’s very sad but it’s reality. I think we’re going to have to ask older and high risk people to stay quarantined or cocooned and the rest of the population is going to have to resume normal life with physical distancing and other measures strictly enforced. Much as I’d love to think we can as a country just wait this out, I cannot see us being able to wipe a year off our lives and economy and expect it all to be fine afterwards.

Society can’t do that to anyone. That’s effectively imprisoning innocent people

Plumbthedepths

Watched a report on Euro news last night. Due to the lockdown in Europe food supply will eventually come under threat if restrictions aren't eased. Food rotting in the ground, on the vine.
Allowing the economy to tank will achieve what ? A health service deprived of funds well into the future will also cost many lives and we have learned that to our sorrow in the past.

lainey_d_123

Gael23 wrote: »

Society can’t do that to anyone. That’s effectively imprisoning innocent people

Well, that's their choice. If they want to take the risk and go out and catch the virus, they can. Effectively imprisoning EVERYONE is clearly not a solution.

Harry Palmr

Lock up the elderly or allow them to roam only in isolated circumstances, those who are younger but with poor defences will have to be looked after as best can be with "quiet time shopping" hours (a good idea anyway!), jobs which can be done from home or are essentially solo work in other environments and such like. Not exactly restrictions that are too hard to deal with until a vaccine is developed.

ITman88

Gael23 wrote: »

Society can’t do that to anyone. That’s effectively imprisoning innocent people

But we are ALL doing it now to a certain degree

Jurgen Klopp

ITman88 wrote: »

Exactly. Very few suggest removing the restrictions entirely

Exactly. It's current lockdown measures that can't be kept indefinitely, we are not speaking of removing the pre lockdown restrictions.

I'd expect at least 12 months of social distancing, handwashing, nursing homes and hospitals remaining closed to visitors, hopefully mandatory face covering added in public and all inward passenger travel into 2 week mandatory quarantine. Unfortunately maybe large gatherings, concerts and spectators attending sport off the cards too

Schools, pubs and restaurants don't know what will happen to be honest

Gael23

ITman88 wrote: »

But we are ALL doing it now to a certain degree

Yes but only for a number of weeks. Asking the elderly to remain indoors for months on end is not a sustainable, or enforceable measure.

Harry Palmr

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Exactly. It's current lockdown measures that can't be kept indefinitely, we are not speaking of removing the pre lockdown restrictions.

I'd expect at least 12 months of social distancing, handwashing, nursing homes and hospitals remaining closed to visitors, hopefully mandatory face covering added in public and all inward passenger travel into 2 week mandatory quarantine. Unfortunately maybe large gatherings, concerts and spectators attending sport off the cards too

Schools, pubs and restaurants don't know what will happen to be honest

They'll be the last to be back other than takeouts or delivery.

Schools will have to come back, first with years that have final exams, at worst there's a chance that we could see a double transition year sort of thing and a generation of children who don't leave until they are 19/20 years old! :eek:

MOH

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Exactly. It's current lockdown measures that can't be kept indefinitely, we are not speaking of removing the pre lockdown restrictions.

I'd expect at least 12 months of social distancing, handwashing, nursing homes and hospitals remaining closed to visitors, hopefully mandatory face covering added in public and all inward passenger travel into 2 week mandatory quarantine. Unfortunately maybe large gatherings, concerts and spectators attending sport off the cards too

Schools, pubs and restaurants don't know what will happen to be honest

Well if you're insisting on mandatory face covering in public then it's hard to see how pubs and restaurants would work

growleaves

Watched a report on Euro news last night. Due to the lockdown in Europe food supply will eventually come under threat if restrictions aren't eased. Food rotting in the ground, on the vine.

I've been saying that from day one.

The worldwide system of food production and distribution does not exist in a vaccum. It takes high levels of efficiency and inter-connected complexity to feed 7.8 billion people. You can't "cancel" large sections of the global economy excepting food supply chains - it doesn't work like that...

tuxy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lock up the elderly or allow them to roam only in isolated circumstances, those who are younger but with poor defences will have to be looked after as best can be with "quiet time shopping" hours (a good idea anyway!), jobs which can be done from home or are essentially solo work in other environments and such like. Not exactly restrictions that are too hard to deal with until a vaccine is developed.

Yes, this is one of the reasons they didn't want to put it in place too soon. It can only be sustained for so long before we start to see problems that are worse than what the virus can so.

I hope they got the timing right, even if they did it's going to be very messy.

Jurgen Klopp

screamer wrote: »

We’re going to have to restart the economy and soon. The more I read about coronavirus the more I see that for old people it’s pretty much a case of catch it and you’ll be lucky to survive. Once on Ventilation only 20% make it, and at that, there are younger people included in those stats.

Just on that I think anyone over 80 has a 21% chance of dying from it so 1 in 5.

Another fact I only learned last couple days is even in normal times anyone that requires invasive ventilation only has a small chance of coming out of it. The way the media spun it I thought most needing ventilation came out of it pre C19

faceman

SSr0 wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3657648174276604&id=100000943735830?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i

That was in Hollyhill in Cork and was covered in the local news there. It was a game of bingo or something. The Gardai turned up saw no issue and left according to one of the local papers