Relaxation of restrictions

TheCitizen

Gael23 wrote: »

As said already, this will cause civil unrest. There is only so far you can push people. Look at what’s happening in Italy when people were forbidden to leave their homes. They have nothing, no money, no food. Nothing,

Another alarmist post. I don't know exactly the position in Italy, I doubt you do either but that doesn't stop you pretending you do. even if that was the case in Italy, it isn't the case in the UK; they are not without food or money etc.. So no, it's highly unlikely there'll be "civil unrest" in the UK.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

Right now, the Irish public as whole, are behaving far better and have done, to date, than, I'd argue, most other countries, but especially the UK.

In fairness to UK citizens, they didn't receive the clarity and direction from either their government or public service broadcaster until a lot of damage was done.

I see the lockdown continuing for a good number of weeks yet, but I'd be very surprised if Ireland when "hardball' on this as the population is extremely compliant.

The UK citizens voted for the buffoon Johnson to be their Prime Minister, they voted for him on the vacuous promise that he'd "get Brexit done". They have only themselves to blame for the stupidity of politics and politicians generally in that country.

Logan Roy

easypazz wrote: »

All the petrol stations were to close yesterday too, somebody on here said they knew somebody "in the know"

Where did I use the phrase “in the know” or say all petrol stations would close yesterday? I said was told some would and I didn’t give any timeline. Get your facts straight easyspaz.

polesheep

rusty the athlete wrote: »

Very debatable whether it is the best strategy. If I am out on a remote strand with nobody around I am unable to infect anyone else and nobody else is able to infect me. The virus is not carried on the wind so house arrest is totally unnecessary.

Most people don't walk on a remote strand.

I don't believe that vulnerable people should be coerced into cocooning, but those that choose not to can hardly complain if they find that there is no ventilator available to them should they need one.

Logan Roy

Logan Roy wrote: »

Where did I use the phrase “in the know” or say all petrol stations would close yesterday? I said was told some would and I didn’t give any timeline. Get your facts straight easyspaz.

Some petrol stations will close but not due to increased virus restrictions but simply because they are currently unprofitable - it's been in the UK news the last few days.

Predictions are that rural areas will be most affected.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/petrol-stations-will-close-due-21792821

gozunda

For the eejits proposing the debunked theory of 'herd' immunity and of the majority with 'mild' or no symptoms. Get a grip and do some actual research

A World Health Organization examination of data from 56,000 patients suggests:

6% become critically ill - lung failure, septic shock, organ failure and risk of death

14% develop severe symptoms - difficulty breathing and shortness of breath

80% develop mild symptoms - fever and cough and some may have pneumonia

In terms of Covid-19 - the term 'mild' is relative and may include disability, fever, pneumonia and up to 2 - 3 weeks recovery and full quarantine from others.

Additionally (at least some)* of those lucklily enough to be totally asymptomatic have been found to exhibit considerable organ damage including the presence of 'ground glass type opacities' to the lungs.

So with even 'mild' covid19 - there is no guarantees. More importantly you also risk infecting others who may not be so lucky ...

polesheep

gozunda wrote: »

For the eejits proposing the debunked theory of 'herd' immunity and of the majority with 'mild' or no symptoms. Get a grip and do some actual research






In terms of Covid-19 - the term 'mild' is relative and may include disability, fever, pneumonia and up to 2 - 3 weeks recovery and full quarantine from others.

Additionally those lucklily enough to be totally asymptomatic have been found to exhibit organ damage including the presence of 'ground glass type opacities' to the lungs.

So with even 'mild' covid19 - there is no guarantees. More importantly you also risk infecting others who may not be so lucky ...

Your reference to asymptomatic people is either astounding ignorance or else you forgot to quantify the percentage.

easypazz

Logan Roy wrote: »

Where did I use the phrase “in the know” or say all petrol stations would close yesterday? I said was told some would and I didn’t give any timeline. Get your facts straight easyspaz.

That's the whole point, you came on spreading vague rumours that don't stack up, same as a lot of people are at.

Its unhelpful.

easypazz

TheCitizen wrote: »

The UK citizens voted for the buffoon Johnson to be their Prime Minister, they voted for him on the vacuous promise that he'd "get Brexit done". They have only themselves to blame for the stupidity of politics and politicians generally in that country.

To compound matters BoJo wanted to be seen to behave different to other countries in Europe, and didn't want to be seen using medical advice from the EU etc.

Hence they left bars open, left Cheltenham go ahead etc.

He is in a bind now because he needs to either ask for an extension in June or Brexit at year end becomes set in stone, and the last thing the British public will want now is to hear that medical supplies from Europe might be held up due to Brexit.

gozunda

polesheep wrote: »

Your reference to asymptomatic people is either astounding ignorance or else you forgot to quantify the percentage.

Your own ignorance in that comment is only surpassed by your inability to do your own research.

Asymptomatic patients* have been found to have organ damage - that is undisputed. Afaik- the totals have not been finalised.


The following Lancet paper details a study of a family group (5 of whom were diagnosed with the coronavirus) including two children aged 7 and 10 years - found that that the two asymptomatic children had ground-glass lung opacities identified by CT scan (compatible with changes seen in viral pneumonia)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30154-9/fulltext

Plenty of other research which show similar case studies.

But go ahead - stick your head in the sand, your fingers in your ears and believe whatever you like.

citysights

Are people singing out there windows here yet I wonder.I l saw on tv the Spanish and Italians singing and playing musical instruments on balconies trying to get through this time while in lock down. A wonderful release for them while confined to their apartment space, very important for mental health that people find creative means of self expression now to get them through.

irishgeo

gozunda wrote: »

Your own ignorance in that comment is only surpassed by you inability to do your own research.

Asymptomatic patients have been found to have organ damage - that is undisputed. Afaik- the totals have not been finalised.


The following Lancet paper details a study of a family group (5 of whom were diagnosed with the coronavirus) including two children aged 7 and 10 years - found that that the two asymptomatic children had ground-glass lung opacities identified by CT scan (compatible with changes seen in viral pneumonia)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30154-9/fulltext

Plenty of other research which show similar case studies.

But go ahead - stick your head in the sand, your fingers in your ears and believe whatever you like.

wow a study of 5 , lets just jump to huge conclusions and extrapolate that everyone is going to get it.

Nowhere does it say its permanent and also i read that it can be reversible with breathing exercises to increase lung capacity again.

ITman88

TheCitizen wrote: »

Have to laugh at the above conspiracy mongering about the media and the government being complicit in "shutting down the country at the behest of a minority etc.", by the resident panic merchants on here and then when they are called out with a straight question from a poster (the last one in the sequence above) they scarper and are nowhere to be seen on it. :pac:

Never have I had to deal with such explicit attention from an admirer as yourself. You watch my every move and post accordingly, only addressing myself, and it appears your only activity on boards.

I am flattered, and I should pay you more attention, my ignoring your posts seems to rile up your responses

gozunda

irishgeo wrote: »

wow a study of 5 , lets just jump to huge conclusions and extrapolate that everyone is going to get it.

Nowhere does it say its permanent and also i read that it can be reversible with breathing exercises to increase lung capacity again.

You want everyone to do your research for you? Yes indeed - that is one study - plenty of other research which shows similar if you can be bothered taking your finger out.

No one is 'jumping to conclusions ...that everyone is going to get it" btw

The purpose of the above is to point out to the eejits who seem to believe mild or asymptomatic automatically means a walk in the park. It doesn't.

Nope but at least you are correct once there. The medical professionals have no idea if such damage is permanent or otherwise.

Thats why I detailed there are no guarantees.

So whats your odds of infecting someone else who may not be so lucky?

And you can provide a link for your unsupported assertion about "breathing exercises" ...

_Kaiser_

Well personally I've been working from home for over 3 weeks now and limiting movements and I'm sick of it.

I'm generally fine on my own and taking it easy at home but I'd rather just catch this thing and be done with it one way or another at this point rather than putting everything on hold in the hope of somehow avoiding it for a while.

I'm reading posts of people cracking up after a week. I don't see how the current - never mind more severe - restrictions will hold under those circumstances.
About the only way - unfortunately - is if deaths start rocketing upwards next week before the current measures are due for review.

TheCitizen

ITman88 wrote: »

Never have I had to deal with such explicit attention from an admirer as yourself. You watch my every move and post accordingly, only addressing myself, and it appears your only activity on boards.

I am flattered, and I should pay you more attention, my ignoring your posts seems to rile up your responses

LOL if you did actually ignore me I wouldn’t bother exposing you any longer but you only ignore what’s suits you. As Bertie said to someone on the opposing benches years ago; “you’re a waffler”

irishgeo

gozunda wrote: »

You want everyone to do your research for you? Yes indeed - that is one study - plenty of other research which shows similar if you can be bothered taking your finger out.

No one is 'jumping to conclusions ...that everyone is going to get it" btw

The purpose of the above is to point out to the eejits who seem to believe mild or asymptomatic automatically means a walk in the park.

Nope but at least you are correct once there. The medical professionals have no idea if such damage is permanent or otherwise.

Thats why I detailed there are no guarantees.

So whats your odds of infecting someone else who may not be so lucky?

And you can provide a link for your unsupported assertion about "breathing exercises" ...

I agree with you, people who think sure its grand ill get it, might have an underlying condition they are unaware of such a heart problem which could lead to complications.

Its dangerous to talk of infecting yourself just to get it over and done with especially with a virus we have been studying for less the 5 months.

ITman88

gozunda wrote: »

For the eejits proposing the debunked theory of 'herd' immunity and of the majority with 'mild' or no symptoms. Get a grip and do some actual research

A World Health Organization examination of data from 56,000 patients suggests:


In terms of Covid-19 - the term 'mild' is relative and may include disability, fever, pneumonia and up to 2 - 3 weeks recovery and full quarantine from others.

Additionally (at least some)* of those lucklily enough to be totally asymptomatic have been found to exhibit considerable organ damage including the presence of 'ground glass type opacities' to the lungs.

So with even 'mild' covid19 - there is no guarantees. More importantly you also risk infecting others who may not be so lucky ...

The name calling from posters because others don’t share similar agendas is shocking.

What you have quoted doesn’t account for the large number that are symptomless.

Accurate figures will not be available until the end of the year.
So valid arguments exist for many different approaches in the mean time, it’s called risk assessment.

That risk assessment will unfortunately place life vs economy.

AdamD

gozunda wrote: »

For the eejits proposing the debunked theory of 'herd' immunity and of the majority with 'mild' or no symptoms. Get a grip and do some actual research

A World Health Organization examination of data from 56,000 patients suggests:




In terms of Covid-19 - the term 'mild' is relative and may include disability, fever, pneumonia and up to 2 - 3 weeks recovery and full quarantine from others.

Additionally (at least some)* of those lucklily enough to be totally asymptomatic have been found to exhibit considerable organ damage including the presence of 'ground glass type opacities' to the lungs.

So with even 'mild' covid19 - there is no guarantees. More importantly you also risk infecting others who may not be so lucky ...

This is a study of patients. There have been studies in Iceland showing a large % of people testing positive having showed no symptons and therefore having never been patients. That's the point you are missing

lainey_d_123

BanditLuke wrote: »

UK looking at possibly going further. Think we'll have to do likewise unfortunately

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-follow-lockdown-rules-or-we-will-ban-outdoor-exercise-health-secretary-warns-11968783

A good quote from this:

Asked whether she agreed with Mr Hancock, Labour's newly-elected deputy leader Angela Rayner told Sky's Sophy Ridge: "It's alright for people who have got big houses and huge back gardens to say that.

"But actually if you're stuck in inadequate accommodation, you've got no back garden, you've got nowhere to go and you're all on top of each other, quite literally, then I think people should do social distancing and should keep their distance but also be reasonable and proportionate about that."

This is exactly the point. We now have a situation where poor people are being shamed by people living in nice, big houses with private gardens and fully stocked fridges. The vast, vast majority of people are complying, but obviously on a day like today, 20 degrees and sunny, people want to get out of the house.

I was just out for a jog and sat down for a few minutes' breather on a bench, and some absolute middle aged wagon carrying oh-so-essential bags from the posh deli had the audacity to shout over to tell me I shouldn't be 'sitting around'. I was on a bench, miles away from anyone, in exercise gear getting one single hour of sun and exercise before going back to my tiny box room in a tower block, and this woman is trying to shame me for being outside? Fcuk this ****, and this is why there are going to be social issues and unrest here in London.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Another alarmist post. I don't know exactly the position in Italy, I doubt you do either but that doesn't stop you pretending you do. even if that was the case in Italy, it isn't the case in the UK; they are not without food or money etc.. So no, it's highly unlikely there'll be "civil unrest" in the UK.

You think people aren't without food or money? Huge numbers of people have just lost their jobs, and are facing weeks of waiting to even get universal credit, let alone the money the government promised to replace their salary. You are being very naive if you think there won't soon be huge problems in London if people are not able to return to work soon.

gozunda wrote: »

For the eejits proposing the debunked theory of 'herd' immunity and of the majority with 'mild' or no symptoms. Get a grip and do some actual research

A World Health Organization examination of data from 56,000 patients suggests:




In terms of Covid-19 - the term 'mild' is relative and may include disability, fever, pneumonia and up to 2 - 3 weeks recovery and full quarantine from others.

Additionally (at least some)* of those lucklily enough to be totally asymptomatic have been found to exhibit considerable organ damage including the presence of 'ground glass type opacities' to the lungs.

So with even 'mild' covid19 - there is no guarantees. More importantly you also risk infecting others who may not be so lucky ...

Selective quoting there. What do you propose we do then? Just sit in the house for 18 months?

lainey_d_123

ITman88 wrote: »

The name calling from posters because others don’t share similar agendas is shocking.

What you have quoted doesn’t account for the large number that are symptomless.

Accurate figures will not be available until the end of the year.
So valid arguments exist for many different approaches in the mean time, it’s called risk assessment.

That risk assessment will unfortunately place life vs economy.

Unbelievable how the word 'patients' in there wasn't a tip off that maybe the entire cohort studied were exclusively people who were so ill that they had to be hospitalised.

polesheep

gozunda wrote: »

Your own ignorance in that comment is only surpassed by your inability to do your own research.

Asymptomatic patients* have been found to have organ damage - that is undisputed. Afaik- the totals have not been finalised.


The following Lancet paper details a study of a family group (5 of whom were diagnosed with the coronavirus) including two children aged 7 and 10 years - found that that the two asymptomatic children had ground-glass lung opacities identified by CT scan (compatible with changes seen in viral pneumonia)
Ground glass opacity has not been shown to be present in all asymptomatic people, therefore your scaremongering statement was factually incorrect and ignorant.


Plenty of other research which show similar case studies.

But go ahead - stick your head in the sand, your fingers in your ears and believe whatever you like.

Ground glass opacity has not been found to be present in all asymptomatic people, therefore your scaremongering statement was factually incorrect.

Logan Roy

The tone of this thread has really changed, the frustration is creeping in!

polesheep

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

A good quote from this:



This is exactly the point. We now have a situation where poor people are being shamed by people living in nice, big houses with private gardens and fully stocked fridges. The vast, vast majority of people are complying, but obviously on a day like today, 20 degrees and sunny, people want to get out of the house.

I was just out for a jog and sat down for a few minutes' breather on a bench, and some absolute middle aged wagon carrying oh-so-essential bags from the posh deli had the audacity to shout over to tell me I shouldn't be 'sitting around'. I was on a bench, miles away from anyone, in exercise gear getting one single hour of sun and exercise before going back to my tiny box room in a tower block, and this woman is trying to shame me for being outside? Fcuk this ****, and this is why there are going to be social issues and unrest here in London.



You think people aren't without food or money? Huge numbers of people have just lost their jobs, and are facing weeks of waiting to even get universal credit, let alone the money the government promised to replace their salary. You are being very naive if you think there won't soon be huge problems in London if people are not able to return to work soon.



Selective quoting there. What do you propose we do then? Just sit in the house for 18 months?

At the moment the people in the UK are following the lead of the government, however, the time may come when the government will follow the lead of the people.

iamwhoiam

easypazz wrote: »

People in vulnerable groups can go out for exercise.

No they can’t

Blueshoe

never_mind wrote: »

To be fair, what’s the point of living if we had to live like this long term. A very vocal minority of boardsies dismiss mental health constantly.

Do you not realise that people are dying. If hospitals become over run many many more will also die. Talk about selfishness ffs

never_mind

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do you not realise that people are dying. If hospitals become over run many many more will also die. Talk about selfishness ffs

Lol. Not going to even reply to this directly but this is exactly what I meant!

Fearghal Bowers is saying this could go on til August. Weep.

lainey_d_123

Logan Roy wrote: »

The tone of this thread has really changed, the frustration is creeping in!

I'm starting to see it IRL too. All the Instagram dahlings posting from their beautiful homes with cute little gardens telling everyone else to 'just stay in' are being very tone deaf. The community here (a very poor area) are being very good with the distancing but people are starting to get sick of being shamed for being outside, for sitting on a park bench so their new baby can get a bit of sun, or for being forced to go shopping on the high street because nobody can get a supermarket delivery slot. The resentment is starting to creep in a bit. It's 20 degrees today and people quite understandably just want to feel a bit of sun on their faces and see some grass.

I understand that if everyone sat on a park bench or lay in the sun on a blanket, we'd end up back at square one, but the shaming is getting a bit grating. I'm not even poor, I just live in this rubbish flat because I'm temporarily based in London. I can't imagine how stressed I'd be if I was struggling to afford groceries or nappies for my kid on top of all this.

lainey_d_123

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do you not realise that people are dying. If hospitals become over run many many more will also die. Talk about selfishness ffs

I could also say it's selfish to force people to stay indoors, subject to domestic violence and abuse and risk of suicide. There have already been several murder-suicide cases in the UK directly linked to the coronavirus situation.

Someone is always going to lose out here.

The people who have been going out like nothing is happening have no shame anyway.