Relaxation of restrictions

niallo27

joseywhales wrote: »

I could do this for two years before I would feel it's pointless

Not everybody has money like you to survive.

gozunda

ITman88 wrote: »

The name calling from posters because others don’t share similar agendas is shocking.What you have quoted doesn’t account for the large number that are symptomless.Accurate figures will not be available until the end of the year.
So valid arguments exist for many different approaches in the mean time, it’s called risk assessment. That risk assessment will unfortunately place life vs economy.

So facts and published data are an 'agenda' lol.

I'm going with the scientific status quo - anyone who thinks they know better than that- qualifies as an 'eejit for sure

The point is scientists and medical professionals now know for certain that a 'mild' case description is relative. The virus carrys with it the risk of pneumonia and organ damage in both 'mild' and asymptomatic cases respectively. Will everyone be affected? Based on the evidence most likley not. The problem is we do not know who will be affected. At best it's an ugly lottery.

Ah so I see you are now a risk assessment specialist and an economist. Brilliant!

Await with baited breath for such deep thought analysis of the pandemic lol.

growleaves

In a normal society there is prudence and a balancing of priorities.

That's why previous generations would not have put up with a lockdown. Even at the height of polio children were not kept indoors, they were just told not to swim.

It is a monomania that has gripped Ireland now and things like the attempted suspension of the Dáil go unnoticed and uncommented on.

One of the maddest things about this monomania is that anyone who questions it is characterised as thinking about themselves only ('selfishness'). An incredibly tendentious assumption.

Idbatterim

rusty the athlete wrote: »

But at least we are not living under Trump, Johnson and Löfven ( the Swedish disaster). I think Leo is holding a good steady line in the circumstances apart from initial wobblies about whether or not to can cancel St pats day.

he seems goog comapred to the others alright, but he is just doing what makes sense and taking advice from others etc so far...

lalababa

AFAIK we are only at around 150 ICU beds being used by C-19 patients. I think we have 400+ ICU beds but don't know how many are being used for non C-19 patients. Around 450 ventilators with 900 ordered to be delivered fairly soon.
I think after the 12th April some restrictions should be lifted...IF the ICU beds are not under too much pressure. Over 70's to be able to get out into the countryside/walking whilst not being able to shop. Lifting the 2km rule. Some jobs/trades back such as builders.And take it from there.

ITman88

gozunda wrote: »

So facts and published data are an 'agenda' lol.

I'm going with the scientific status quo - anyone who thinks they know better than that- qualifies as an 'eejit for sure

The point is scientists and medical professionals now know for certain that a 'mild' case description is relative. The virus carrys with it the risk of pneumonia and organ damage in both 'mild' and asymptomatic cases respectively. Will everyone be affected? Based on the evidence most likley not. The problem is we do not know who will be affected. At best it's an ugly lottery.

Ah so I see you are now a risk assessment specialist and an economist. Brilliant!

Await with baited breath for such deep thought analysis of the pandemic lol.

Exactly that, you are only considering a short term health impact.
Your argument in the 1st place was one you imagined, no one here suggested the virus was harmless, however you don’t grasp the economic catastrophe and extended lockdown would cause.

You may not have a mortgage, you may not be stuck in an apartment, you may enjoy not having to work.

Others aren’t so lucky.

Anyone who is considering the complete impact of the restrictions is an eejit in your opinion.

We know little about the virus long term effects but we can accurately predict the revenue deficit and unemployment figures.

gozunda

AdamD wrote: »

This is a study of patients. There have been studies in Iceland showing a large % of people testing positive having showed no symptons and therefore having never been patients. That's the point you are missing

No - the point you are missing is that those checked for the disease in that study ( including those who did not test positive and / or were asymptomatic) showed changes consistent with the disease. The study conducted CT scans of all the study subjects hence the findings.

Yeah thats great - which exact studies in Iceland btw? Did they CT scan all those people? Do they know they do not have lung tissue damage?

polesheep wrote: »

Ground glass opacity has not been found to be present in all asymptomatic people, therefore your scaremongering statement was factually incorrect.

Ffs - talk about scraping the barrel! No one claimed lung damage was "present in all asymptomatic people"

The fact is that it is a known consequence of the disease for some asymptomatic people.. How many? We simply dont know. Will you or I get that? Who the fuk knows at this stage. It's an ugly lottery. And if you dont - your mate who you gave it to - may not be so lucky ...

ITman88

gozunda wrote: »

And if you dont - your mate who you gave it to - may not be so lucky ...

Nothing better than a bit of emotional black mail to force an opinion home.

scamalert

gozunda wrote: »

No - the point you are missing is that those checked for the disease in that study ( including those who did not test positive and / or were asymptomatic showed changes consistent with the disease). The study conducted CT scans of all the study subjects hence the findings.

Yeah thats great - which exact studies in Iceland btw? Did they CT scan all those people? Do they know they do not have lung tissue damage?



Ffs - talk about scraping the barrel! No one claimed lung damage was "present in all asymptomatic people"

The fact is that it is a known consequence of the disease for some asymptomatic people.. How many? We simply dont know. Will you or I get that? Who the fuk knows at this stage. It's an ugly lottery. And if you dont - your mate who you gave it to - may not be so lucky ...

give a valid link for those that have no to little symptoms or are asymptomatic that they develop disability pneumonia and organ damage or seriously f off to the main hysteric thread, instead of spreading misinformation as atm your embarrassing yourself.

Nermal

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah thats great - which exact studies in Iceland btw?

Post a link to the study you referred to earlier.

gozunda

ITman88 wrote: »

Exactly that, you are only considering a short term health impact. Your argument in the 1st place was one you imagined, no one here suggested the virus was harmless, however you don’t grasp the economic catastrophe and extended lockdown would cause.You may not have a mortgage, you may not be stuck in an apartment, you may enjoy not having to work. Others aren’t so lucky.
Anyone who is considering the complete impact of the restrictions is an eejit in your opinion.
We know little about the virus long term effects but we can accurately predict the revenue deficit and unemployment figures.

Incorrect and wrong. The impact of ignoring the science will have a much greater effect on our society than a bunch of people acting like petulant kids because they cant go out to play.

Make as much opportunity as you can from the restrictions. If that means learning a language or even taking up knitting god forbid - do it. Stop moaning. You have no idea how other people are situated.

The number of frankly daft comments in the forum about herd immunity and the virus only being a 'mild disease' without some fairly serious effects such does not stand up to scrutiny.

There will be changes. The economy will return. I doubt it will be like anything we've known before or since.

Max H

Borrowed from a friend, so very apt at the moment



As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.

From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it’s a secret, but he’s posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it’s all a load of bollocks and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn’t feel sick and why the **** is ‘spoons shut cos his granddad didn’t fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if pornhub premium is now free for a week.

I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute bastards. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter bastards (did I mention that?) because you can do almost **** all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That’s the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it’s about medicine and that’s what’s scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a ****ing nightmare.

The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it’s living it’s best life #livelaughcough. You can’t ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal dickhead. You have to actually do what you’re being told to do. YOU.

YOU. You can stop it. Do what you’re told. Stay the **** inside. Stop thinking you’re an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you’re a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you’ve been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn’t your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It’s your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.

The virus does not give a **** about you. You’re just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a **** about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don’t let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bull**** in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it’s about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you’re being asked to d

oceanman

lalababa wrote: »

AFAIK we are only at around 150 ICU beds being used by C-19 patients. I think we have 400+ ICU beds but don't know how many are being used for non C-19 patients. Around 450 ventilators with 900 ordered to be delivered fairly soon.
I think after the 12th April some restrictions should be lifted...IF the ICU beds are not under too much pressure. Over 70's to be able to get out into the countryside/walking whilst not being able to shop. Lifting the 2km rule. Some jobs/trades back such as builders.And take it from there.

in seven days time!...I very much doubt it

scamalert

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect and wrong. The impact of ignoring the science will have a much greater impact on our society than a bunch of people acting like petulant kids because they cant go out to play.

Make as much opportunity as you can from rhexrestrictiobs. If that means learning a language or even taking up knowing god forbid- do it. Stop moaning. You have no idea how other people are situated.

The number of frankly daft comments in the forum about herd immunity and the virus only being a 'mild disease' for most does not stand up to scrutiny.

There will be changes. The economy will return. I doubt it will be like anything we've known before or since.

link to where you claim people with mild cases develop organ failure, and long lasting disability, you pose to rely on expert sources yet seems you keep making $hit as you go.

easypazz

Idbatterim wrote: »

dont worry, not a chance! There would be anarchy, if they havent got vaccine in reasonable time frame. People can just go out and take their chances IMO. If you dont want too, cocooon...

The chance thing for the vast majority of us, even if we get it, will involve likely feeling a bit **** for a few days, big woooop! I believe some people dont even know that they had it!

That will be a phase at some point, if it bothers you cocoon, and here's €203 a week.

And if you get it and there are not enough beds you are sedated in a special hospital and you either recover or die.

gozunda

scamalert wrote: »

give a valid link for those that have no to little symptoms or are asymptomatic that they develop disability pneumonia and organ damage or seriously f off to the main hysteric thread, instead of spreading misinformation as atm your embarrassing yourself.

scamalert wrote: »

link to where you claim people with mild cases develop organ failure, and long lasting disability, you pose to rely on expert sources yet seems you keep making $hit as you go.

Stop embarrassing yourself and actually read the thread. Already have provided links for the points made. It's there in black and white. Cant read? Cant help you with that.

So you can drop the histronics or as you nicely suggest 'or seriously f off'

Evidently here is no accounting for ignorance ...

Gael23

lalababa wrote: »

AFAIK we are only at around 150 ICU beds being used by C-19 patients. I think we have 400+ ICU beds but don't know how many are being used for non C-19 patients. Around 450 ventilators with 900 ordered to be delivered fairly soon.
I think after the 12th April some restrictions should be lifted...IF the ICU beds are not under too much pressure. Over 70's to be able to get out into the countryside/walking whilst not being able to shop. Lifting the 2km rule. Some jobs/trades back such as builders.And take it from there.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me

gozunda

ITman88 wrote: »

Nothing better than a bit of emotional black mail to force an opinion home.

What you mean reality? Lol.

Yeah like the disease isnt contagious and you and your mates will all be grand like :rolleyes:

shocksy

lalababa wrote: »

AFAIK we are only at around 150 ICU beds being used by C-19 patients. I think we have 400+ ICU beds but don't know how many are being used for non C-19 patients. Around 450 ventilators with 900 ordered to be delivered fairly soon.
I think after the 12th April some restrictions should be lifted...IF the ICU beds are not under too much pressure. Over 70's to be able to get out into the countryside/walking whilst not being able to shop. Lifting the 2km rule. Some jobs/trades back such as builders.And take it from there.

My god you really are clueless and absolutely deluded.

Thank god the experts don't have the same lines of thinking as you.

niallo27

Max H wrote: »

Borrowed from a friend, so very apt at the moment



As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.

From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it’s a secret, but he’s posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it’s all a load of bollocks and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn’t feel sick and why the **** is ‘spoons shut cos his granddad didn’t fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if pornhub premium is now free for a week.

I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute bastards. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter bastards (did I mention that?) because you can do almost **** all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That’s the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it’s about medicine and that’s what’s scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a ****ing nightmare.

The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it’s living it’s best life #livelaughcough. You can’t ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal dickhead. You have to actually do what you’re being told to do. YOU.

YOU. You can stop it. Do what you’re told. Stay the **** inside. Stop thinking you’re an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you’re a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you’ve been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn’t your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It’s your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.

The virus does not give a **** about you. You’re just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a **** about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don’t let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bull**** in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it’s about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you’re being asked to d

Let me guess, you got this from facebook as well. Its condescending tone will just make everyone ignore it.

kippy

ITman88 wrote: »

As pragmatic as it sounds people will possibly die at the same rate when Covid is a distant memory.

The point of overrunning the hospitals is the most relevant point, hopefully but the end of this week we should know where we stand in Ireland regarding the ICU dependancy.

The restrictions aren’t going to save a great deal of lives, only prevent overwhelming the health service.

Of course they are going to save a great deal of lives....which is a direct consequence of not overwhelming the health service...

polesheep

gozunda wrote: »

No - the point you are missing is that those checked for the disease in that study ( including those who did not test positive and / or were asymptomatic) showed changes consistent with the disease. The study conducted CT scans of all the study subjects hence the findings.

Yeah thats great - which exact studies in Iceland btw? Did they CT scan all those people? Do they know they do not have lung tissue damage?



Ffs - talk about scraping the barrel! No one claimed lung damage was "present in all asymptomatic people"

The fact is that it is a known consequence of the disease for some asymptomatic people.. How many? We simply dont know. Will you or I get that? Who the fuk knows at this stage. It's an ugly lottery. And if you dont - your mate who you gave it to - may not be so lucky ...

Actually, you did. When I picked you up on it you went back and edited it.

Nermal

gozunda wrote: »

Read the thread. Already have provided links. It's there in black and white.

You referred to a WHO study of 56,000 patients (link still to be provided) and in the same post discussed results found in tiny case studies. Scare-mongering. Blocked.

ITman88

gozunda wrote: »

What you mean reality? Lol.

Yeah like the disease isnt contagious and you and your mates will all be grand like :rolleyes:

Look you have no issues sitting indoors for 18 months. That’s great you can do that.

A point will come where the economic effects from the restrictions will cause more deaths than covid.

I’m not talking about suicide,I’m talking about a lack of revenue to run an efficient health service.

So far all advice has been from HSE/WHO, those organisations are only concerned with the nations health.

Very little advice exists from an economic point of view.

As another poster alluded to, has a risk assessment been carried out yet of health risk vs economic effects?

kippy

ITman88 wrote: »

Look you have no issues sitting indoors for 18 months. That’s great you can do that.

A point will come where the economic effects from the restrictions will cause more deaths than covid.

I’m not talking about suicide,I’m talking about a lack of revenue to run an efficient health service.

So far all advice has been from HSE/WHO, those organisations are only concerned with the nations health.

Very little advice exists from an economic point of view.

As another poster alluded to, has a risk assessment been carried out yet of health risk vs economic effects?

I am sure that's being looked at too but it's far to early to start making those calls.
The economy will change and no doubt recover.

polesheep

Max H wrote: »

Borrowed from a friend, so very apt at the moment



As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.

From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it’s a secret, but he’s posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it’s all a load of bollocks and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn’t feel sick and why the **** is ‘spoons shut cos his granddad didn’t fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if pornhub premium is now free for a week.

I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute bastards. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter bastards (did I mention that?) because you can do almost **** all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That’s the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it’s about medicine and that’s what’s scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a ****ing nightmare.

The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it’s living it’s best life #livelaughcough. You can’t ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal dickhead. You have to actually do what you’re being told to do. YOU.

YOU. You can stop it. Do what you’re told. Stay the **** inside. Stop thinking you’re an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you’re a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you’ve been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn’t your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It’s your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.

The virus does not give a **** about you. You’re just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a **** about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don’t let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bull**** in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it’s about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you’re being asked to d

A lot of sense but, let's be clear, mankind is not going to be wiped out by this virus.

Blueshoe

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I could also say it's selfish to force people to stay indoors, subject to domestic violence and abuse and risk of suicide. There have already been several murder-suicide cases in the UK directly linked to the coronavirus situation.

Someone is always going to lose out here.

You can still go outside.

Domestic violence won't disappear because you can go drink pints. There are murder suicides every day of the week. 155,000 people die around the world every single day from different causes.

There is a global pandemic ongoing. Stay inside and follow government restrictions. Put your big boy/girl pants on. It's not difficult

It's all me me me with some people.

gozunda

polesheep wrote: »

Actually, you did. When I picked you up on it you went back and edited it.

Whst the fuk are you on about? Did what exactly?

Eitherway bull****. If you didnt understand what was written its not my fault.

ITman88

kippy wrote: »

Of course they are going to save a great deal of lives....which is a direct consequence of not overwhelming the health service...

Your sensationalising the point I made.

We will save some lives buy not overwhelming the health service.

Some posters think that number will be in the thousands, it wont

ITman88

polesheep wrote: »

A lot of sense but, let's be clear, mankind is not going to be wiped out by this virus.

If we never put a single restriction in place mankind would not be wiped out